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Old May 27, 2009, 09:14 PM   #1
cloud8a
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need help got a dirty hawken

the barrel of my hawken, the inside of the nipple mount is fouled rusty and full of brown grime like mud.

I have been scrubbing with general BP cleaning kit solvent. I have been wiping clear with cotton patches. I cannot get into the smaller spaces. I am wondering if I should just submerge the entire barrel in some kind of solution that you guys suggest.

Should I submerge it?
In what should it be submerged?
what is a grinding compound and how do I use it? (Arti)

Was thinking about using a .54 scrub brush instead of my .50 so that it will scrub harder. is this a good Idea.

I just need some hints on cleaning this thing.
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Old May 27, 2009, 10:04 PM   #2
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Start with breech submerged in hot soapy water, nipple removed, of course. You need to flush the flash channel with moving water. be sure the breech area is full of hot soapy water; if you're not sure submerging the breech accomplished that then pour some down the barrel. A cleaning jag of the proper caliber on your ramrod and a cleaning patch will work as the piston to force the water through the flash channel. Work the jag/patch up and down in the barrel to get the water moving back and forth in the flash channel.

If the hot water 'douche' is ineffective an alcohol solution might work. The last thing I'd try would be a rust remover such as Liquid Wrench or Kroil.
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Old May 27, 2009, 10:08 PM   #3
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What mykeal said.
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Old May 27, 2009, 10:40 PM   #4
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HH is right that what Mykeal said is right.

FM
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Old May 27, 2009, 11:11 PM   #5
cloud8a
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I have been putting patches soaked with solvent down the barrel. Then a brush. then a dry patch. continuous brown muck on the dry patch. another dry patch it gets lighter. Then I start over. keep getting really dirty patches after solvent scrub.

It is looking better and better. I am seeing some pitting.
What constitutes minor pitting or major pitting?

I am putting pics up in a min
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Old May 27, 2009, 11:17 PM   #6
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IMNSHO

Minor pitting - a few patches of sugar granule sized pits.
Major pitting - a lot of patches of pits the size of grains of kosher salt or larger.
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Old May 27, 2009, 11:30 PM   #7
cloud8a
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This is my work area. It looks as though there is going to be minor pitting. Looks like sugar granules down the length of the barrel. I am using a bore light and it is hard to tell further down if the pitting is worse. How bad is this going to affect accuracy?
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Old May 27, 2009, 11:38 PM   #8
arcticap
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Valve grinding compound is available at nearly every auto parts store. Specialists use different grits for either polishing or metal removal just like when using sandpaper. It comes in a tube or jar and usually mixes with water to form a paste containing the grit. What they sell at auto parts stores is 150 grit or medium grit which is about right for your application. The trick is to try to stoke it up & down in your bore as evenly as possible.

Here's a list of valve grinding compound products from NAPA Auto Parts:

http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPage...ound&VehCode=N

Unless you want to perform a professional barrel lapping, you need to remove as much of the rust as possible from the barrel using bore brushes, Copper Chore Boy (for pots and pans), #0000 fine steel wool, 3M pad etc...
Then you need to chose a way to effectively stroke the grinding compound into the bore to sand it down evenly. I'm not sure how I would proceed. It would depend on what materials that I had on hand and how securely it would stay on a rod for stroking. For instance, some #0000 fine steel wool could be wrapped around a bore brush, and then some grinding compound could be applied to that to perform the strokes. One person might use a cleaning jag with leather, another might use a wooden jig fastened to a rod, another might use an electric drill with a long rod and a sandpaper flapper attached, and another might use a rod wrapped with string and cloth. It's your decision about how you want to proceed with the makeshift barrel lapping.

Here's 2 articles about real barrel lapping which is not what you will be doing, but the 2nd recommends performing 20 strokes at a time.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/gunsmit...barrel_200805/

http://www.twincityrodandgun.com/PDF...%20Lapping.pdf

Last edited by arcticap; May 28, 2009 at 12:14 AM.
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Old May 27, 2009, 11:48 PM   #9
4V50 Gary
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Pitted bores can still shoot straight (for a while). Before you polish it, shoot it and see what happens.
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Old May 28, 2009, 12:00 AM   #10
cloud8a
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the picture of that dirty patch is about the 15th one put through it. all the rust seems to be coming out and just leaving the pitting so maybe i will not need to use the compound
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Old May 28, 2009, 12:20 AM   #11
arcticap
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The grinding compound is for polishing the metal after the rust is removed, not for removing the rust.
Depending on the depth and number of pits, after shooting the gun the pits can hold a lot of powder residue which makes it a lot harder to remove and get clean. Plus that residue and bumpy pitting can cause poor accuracy during shooting.
You should try shooting it but only after you remove all of the rust. I would keep using bore brushes with solvent or oil unless you can get some #0000 steel wool. It will take a lot of strokes and maybe a couple of days of working at it. Leaving the barrel wet with solvent or oil and letting it soak into the metal can't hurt. Just try not to breath in any of the vaporized oil and solvent droplets when you remove the wet brush from the bore. :barf:
The 3M Scotchbrite Scouring Pads are popular for removing rust. That and/or the Easy Erasing Pad looks like it may work for applying the grinding compound.

http://www.3m.com/us/home_leisure/sc.../scrubber.html

Last edited by arcticap; May 29, 2009 at 04:22 AM.
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Old May 28, 2009, 01:22 AM   #12
cloud8a
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the more i look at the barrel with the bore light the more the pitting looks worse. it all depends on how you angle the light and whether or not the barrel is wet with solvent or dry.

I'm not so much irritated by the fact i paid 90 for a damaged gun as i am that someone had a really nice weapon and let this happen. I mean the outer barrel is nickel as if someone had it done. Why let the inside turn to crap?

if it has to be re bored for a 100 that's 190. still less than 300+ i was going to put into a Cabela's Hawken.
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Old May 28, 2009, 06:06 AM   #13
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I misunderstood your original post; I thought the only problem was muck in the bolster flash channel. On rereading it I see that I missed the fact that the bore is badly rusted as well.

My first post was intended to deal with a buildup of muck in the bolster and will not address the rust in the bore very well.

For the bore, I've had good success with the following: wet the bore with a patch saturated with rust remover (Kroil is the best I've used, but most any such product from the auto parts store will suffice) and let it sit for an hour or so. Then follow with a cleaning jag with 0000 steel wool wrapped around it and saturated with rust remover, run up and down the bore 8-10 times, followed by a dry patch. Repeat as many times as necessary. A completely clean patch is nearly impossible, but you should start to see diminishing returns, as well as more and more clean area in the bore.

Minor pitting (as defined above) will have little effect on accuracy. Major pitting will hurt consistent accuracy, and can even be dangerous in extreme cases.

I personally do not like to use valve lapping compound in a gun bore; it's much too aggressive for me. It may help to polish the pits out but it also polishes the edges of the lands and greatly ages the bore. I think you're better off leaving minor pits alone and keeping the gun very clean and the bore oiled with mineral oil type preservative between uses.
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Old May 28, 2009, 08:14 AM   #14
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May sound like the easy way out, but why not get a new barrel from Green Mountain Rifle Barrels? http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/catalog...erriflebarrels
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Old May 28, 2009, 12:10 PM   #15
CaptainCrossman
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Quote:
the barrel of my hawken, the inside of the nipple mount is fouled rusty and full of brown grime like mud.
I have been scrubbing with general BP cleaning kit solvent. I have been wiping clear with cotton patches. I cannot get into the smaller spaces. I am wondering if I should just submerge the entire barrel in some kind of solution that you guys suggest.
Should I submerge it?
In what should it be submerged?
what is a grinding compound and how do I use it? (Arti)
Was thinking about using a .54 scrub brush instead of my .50 so that it will scrub harder. is this a good Idea.
I just need some hints on cleaning this thing.


tub of hot water with Mr. Clean kitchen cleaner added- just don't put wooden stock parts or silver/gold plated parts in, it will tarnish plated parts, and will remove finish from some stocks

blued parts only, it will get really clean-

and the stuff is cheap- one bottle will last you months, if not years- you can dilute it
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Old May 29, 2009, 02:21 AM   #16
cloud8a
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Well I decided to use Gun Scrubber and super fine steel wool 0000. I got really good results. The pitting seems to be in between major and minor. I used solvent and everything i could get short of a grinding compound. Worked on this baby for three days. I plan on taking it to the range this weekend to see what i get.

I will take inaccurate over it exploding.

I used Super Lube to lube the barrel. I had an oil from another kit but someone else mentioned not to use petroleum based oil on BP ever. The Super Lube came in a BP kit.
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Old May 29, 2009, 02:32 AM   #17
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This wont do anything for pitting(the green mtn bbl option is good)
But a cleaning method I used at home "The Hawken Water Pik"

If you have a hand held shower,use imagination to figure out a way to attach a brass tube to your shower hose.

Knock out the wedge keys,remove the bbl.Run the brass tube to the breech,and turn on the hot water.The pressure is blasting into the breech face,and you will have a hot bbl when done.

I have aloso used the old method at the campfire of boiling a pot,pulling the nipple,submerging the breech,and pumping with the rod,and a patch and jag.

Bummer you rusted up.It is just a "must do" thing to clean them right,oil them,and check on them next day with an oily patch
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Old May 29, 2009, 02:50 AM   #18
cloud8a
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I didn't rust it up the butt hole that owned the gun before me did. I am the butt hole that bought the gun with out inspecting the bore more efficiently.

Thanks for all the input it really helped. Now we will just see at the range what I have.
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Old May 29, 2009, 06:19 AM   #19
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Just a comment about 'not using petroleum based oil on BP ever'. Like all such generalizations it's inaccurate. It's based on the tendency of the lower distillates of petroleum to combine chemically with black powder combustion byproducts to form a tar-like substance that's hard to clean. The more accurate statement should be to avoid using petroleum based products (with the exception of the higher distillate mineral oil) where they might be mixed with bp fouling, like in the bore; a good gun oil used in the action of a well built revolver or lock can be just fine. Gun oil can also be used as a rust preventative for storage; just be sure to thoroughly clean it out before shooting the gun.
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Old May 29, 2009, 03:19 PM   #20
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What mykeal said.
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Old May 29, 2009, 10:37 PM   #21
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with a dirty barrel like that you're going to have to get a bucket of hot soapy water and a bore brush and scrub that sucker. Patches will only get you so far.

http://thepowerbeltforum.powerguild....-have-t358.htm

If thats a cva hawken, you can order a new barrel from deer creek products for around $85. They have both 15/16 and 1" barrels so you will need to measure yours. IMO if you do get a new barrel, order the .54
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Old May 30, 2009, 09:23 PM   #22
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I had a bad barrel a while back. I pulled it out of the stock, and took the nipple out, put it in a bucket of HOT water that had some 409 in it. I cut some green 3M pads into 1" squares and used a 50 cal jag in that 54 barrel with the green pad on it and got in that barrel and began pumping it. It came out black then red, then black before it got down to shiny metal. Its a remarkably good shooter, i used probably 10 of the green patches before I got it down to clean iron. Use full length strokes so you clean it evenly all the way out.

Water puts rust in, and water is best to loosen rust on anything you work on.
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