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Old May 27, 2009, 01:07 PM   #126
KingEdward
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then he will be judged by 12.

interesting case.
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Old May 27, 2009, 01:08 PM   #127
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I wonder if they could get a medical doctor to testify that the head shot would have been fatal eventually. If that shot was justified and would have been fatal then the rest are cursory.
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Old May 27, 2009, 01:12 PM   #128
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Is all the rhetoric, cautioning, and concern above just about whether gunnie blood lust was truly present??

No one would defend someone coldly killing someone else just because the opportunity was present. Is there any way to abolutely know? A liberal news media will never color any civilian shooting in a positive fashion. Knowing this, we need to be supportive until facts to the opposite arise. No shoot will ever be tactically perfect.

Or is this all just about being PC? Do we critisize every shoot about a shooters possible evil intentions and make a case for the anti's?? If we are going to be really PC then we don't need to be armed at all!! We need to be focused on public polls and compromise with those that want to disarm us to make the public think they live in a safer world, right??

The public's perception is "their" reality. Race can get you considered for arrest for a self defense shoot,, the robbers age can get you considered for a shoot, etc.

Presently, we still have the right to use lethal force to save our lives--I care much less about making a bulletproof case for any murderer/potential murders rights to continue to exist. You have to give deference to the good guy to preserve his life vs the criminal to take it.
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Old May 27, 2009, 01:14 PM   #129
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the DA is saying his story doesn't match the video from the stores cameras. DA says video shows him shoot the guy once,chase the other bad guy come back get second gun out of drawer and fire five shots to the bg while he lay on the floor

also no gun was found on or near this bg although the one who got a way was armed
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Old May 27, 2009, 01:16 PM   #130
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Another thread just opened that indicates the pharmacist is going to be charged with murder.
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Old May 27, 2009, 01:17 PM   #131
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The entire event has had considerable discussion on an earlier thread.
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Old May 27, 2009, 01:21 PM   #132
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I'm going to merge these!
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Old May 27, 2009, 01:22 PM   #133
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You must cease shooting when the threat is down and no longer a threat.
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Old May 27, 2009, 01:37 PM   #134
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The issue is not being PC - it's about being knowledgeable about using lethal force and the risks you face after you think you righteously did it.

If the physical evidence screws him in the sense that he returned to fire at an individual who was not a risk - then you can discuss it being PC not to clear the streets of scum, etc. - but you are wrong.

And if we present gun owners as such, then pragmatically you lose support for gun rights.
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Old May 27, 2009, 02:24 PM   #135
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Everyone that carries needs to be aware of the events that are unfolding, the permit isnt a ok to kill but to allow us to protect ourselves from harm. When the person that is a threat becomes no longer a threat we must restrain ourselves.

I was waiting to see what if anything else would show up on this event. Cameras everywhere nowadays so be careful.
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Old May 27, 2009, 04:09 PM   #136
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Apparently now, according to the video, Antwun Parker was NOT getting up. He was shot whilst down and unconscious, in other words, no longer a threat...which I think most of us can agree is completely illegal.

And it rather kills the whole discussion by responsible gun owners as to whether Parker was just getting up versus going for a gun or how far the gun might have been from him...now that we have more of the facts and can discuss the matter a little more critically.

I will say this, nothing like a good video security system to keep everyone honest.

Quote:
Mr. Ersland is a genuine hero:
And apparently a genuine murderer.

I seem to recall an incident inside or near Salt Lake City years ago where a drunk naked guy was trying to break into the back door of a man's home and he shot him and the naked guy went down with a fatal wound, unconscious. The only problem was the home owner went over and then shot the guy in the head, killing him. He was charged and convicted of murder. I mention this because I have to wonder of Antwun Parker's head shot was lethal or not.

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Everyone that carries needs to be aware of the events that are unfolding, the permit isnt a ok to kill but to allow us to protect ourselves from harm.
Maybe I missed it, but I don't see anyone arguing that a carry permit is a permit to kill. Of course it isn't a permit to kill.
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Old May 27, 2009, 04:15 PM   #137
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Apparently now, according to the video, Antwun Parker was NOT getting up. He was shot whilst down and unconscious, in other words, no longer a threat...which I think most of us can agree is completely illegal.
If that turns out to be true...and I stress "if"...I am afraid I would be less supportive of the shooter. I would still have to try and decide for myself if he still felt threatened or not if I was on a jury. I would have to take into account the fact that the defendant had already been fired upon and his perceptions might have been slightly altered because of this fact. That type of scenario is quite common in battlefield situations and this would be very similar in my opinion.
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Old May 27, 2009, 04:15 PM   #138
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Can you post a link to the article or source?

If this is indeed the case, not a good mark for the CCW world once the press gets it churning on all 8 cylinders :-(

Going to be hard for him to say he shot him out of fear if he was just laying there out of it.
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Old May 27, 2009, 04:18 PM   #139
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Apparently now, according to the video
Where is this video?
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Old May 27, 2009, 04:27 PM   #140
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Small world. In a pharmacy near where I live and that I drove by an hour earlier:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/Att...ns_deadly.html

This was judged to be righteous.

Here's the video - link on the right. Doesn't look good for him.

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-phar...=breaking_news
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Old May 27, 2009, 04:31 PM   #141
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looks bad
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Old May 27, 2009, 04:36 PM   #142
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He's up a creek.

When he came back inside he walked right past the guy without paying any attention to him, clearly he was no threat. Then he returns and walks right up to him and shoots him 5 times? Bad, bad, bad, bad. He's a goner.
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Old May 27, 2009, 04:51 PM   #143
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Well, you cant see what happens to the BG, so technically we dont know if he started getting up or not... But that does not look good for him. Not one bit...
Maybe he actually listened to the mall ninja "dead men tell no tales" advice. Dead men dont, but cameras sure do.
Very sad for everyone...
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Old May 27, 2009, 04:57 PM   #144
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Just saw the video...doesn't look good for the pharmacist. He looked rather cool and calm as he walked to the back of the store and then came back and shot the BG at point blank. Not good at all...
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Old May 27, 2009, 05:00 PM   #145
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Thats what I was thinking, as he walked by him he looked pretty collected. Only thing that leaves any room for doubt is the fact you can't actually see the bad guy laying there.

But to me, sure doesn't look like he went back and shot out of fear.

Guy is hosed.

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Old May 27, 2009, 05:13 PM   #146
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Bloodlust and stupidity--bad combination!!

And after he acted he had to know there was a video to hang him.

Dumb move--
So sad!!

The guy just throws his life away to get some satisfaction by killing a robber in cold blood.

This is bad for all gunnies and folks who carry.
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Old May 27, 2009, 05:27 PM   #147
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The guy just throws his life away to get some satisfaction by killing a robber in cold blood.
Granted, video evidence is somewhat supporting, I feel that without actually being there, that statement is a bit of an assumption.

I must say though, responses have taken quite the 180 from the OP...
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Old May 27, 2009, 05:32 PM   #148
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Very good point sir... Can expert witnesses help the reasonable man case then?
Yes, they can. Mas Ayoob and some of the people he has worked with have done some great work looking at this sort of thing, how the shooting event impacts perception, reaction times involving threats, etc.
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Old May 27, 2009, 06:29 PM   #149
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Yes, they can. Mas Ayoob and some of the people he has worked with have done some great work looking at this sort of thing, how the shooting event impacts perception, reaction times involving threats, etc.
Yeah, but you know how juries are... you get one PITA on there and the whole thing goes to a bad place in a hand basket. Someone who can't quite comprehend the judges instructions or the difference between ANY doubt and REASONABLE doubt for example.
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Old May 27, 2009, 06:51 PM   #150
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Quote:
Ersland said he was thrown against a wall, but managed to go for the semiautomatic in his pocket.

"And that’s when I started defending myself,” he said. "The first shot got him in the head, and that slowed him down so I could get my other gun.”

But as one robber hit the floor, Ersland said, a bullet from the other robber whizzed past his ear. The pharmacist said he then got his second gun from a nearby drawer, a Taurus Judge. After he had the big gun, Ersland said, the second robber ran.

But as he started to chase after the second robber he looked back to see the 16-year-old he had shot in the head getting up again. Ersland said he then emptied the Kel-Tec .380 into the boy’s chest."

"I went after the other guy, but he was real fast and I’m crippled,” Ersland said.
The video supports NONE of Erslands above statement.
I can't tell from the video if the robbers are even firing, can anyone else tell?
Did Ersland use two guns or three? First he fires the semiautomatic, then he gets the Taurus Judge and the 2nd robber flees? Then he comes back and shoots the Kel-tec again?
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