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Old May 23, 2009, 01:24 PM   #1
glock06
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Mousegun/Carry gun shooting tactics

I carry a Glock and try to practice 2x C of Mass, then one to the head at various distances.

Others advocate 3x C of Mass and reassess, etc

With my LCP mousegun I cannot do head shots rapidly(point shooting) unless really close so I practice 4x C of Mass and reassess.

The mousegun is obviously a poor second to the Glock.

Any suggestions on round placement/management for either gun??
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Old May 23, 2009, 01:41 PM   #2
Archie
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Probably a Good Indictment of Head Shots

Head shots are not nearly as easy to make as might be thought, especially if the adversary is moving.

However, G6, unless you are on the offensive - a most unlikely situation for most of us - the villain will be approaching or already within powder burn range.

My preferred caliber for self defense flitters between .357 Magnum and .45 ACP. However, I do on occasion carry a lighter caliber; this is mostly a heavy loaded .38 Special, but I have been known to carry a classic .32 ACP. I don't carry the little gun very much.

I would suggest if you are in a serious defensive situation, it will be close in. Do not reveal your weapon until time to shoot. Then, in the words of Tuco Benidicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez, "Shoot!, Don't talk" (or display the weapon to intimidate).
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Old May 23, 2009, 02:10 PM   #3
David Armstrong
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Quote:
The mousegun is obviously a poor second to the Glock.
No, it is obviously different than the Glock, and designed to fit into a different niche.
If you can't do rapid head shots point shooting, slow down a bit and use the sights.
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Old May 23, 2009, 02:32 PM   #4
jrothWA
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Suggest trying ...

bowling pin shoots, there you MUST be on target for the pin to zoom (or walk slowly, if using 9mm) straight away from the shooter.

Miss the center hit zone, causes the pin to hit and spin on the table.

Center zone: the cylinder on the pin base extending up the height of the pin.
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Old May 23, 2009, 02:34 PM   #5
Keltyke
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Quote:
I carry a Glock and try to practice 2x C of Mass, then one to the head at various distances.
What distances? Unless the BG has a gun or throwing knife, you'd be hard-pressed to defend a shooting at much over 30 feet. It should take about 1.5-2 seconds to draw, properly aim, and fire the first round. A human can run (at top speed) about 30 feet in two seconds. If you have that much warning, you're lucky. Most SD shootings happen at less than 10 feet.

Quote:
Others advocate 3x C of Mass and reassess, etc
I was taught two COM and reassess the threat. Head shots are EXTREMELY difficult under stress at a moving target. You MUST think of your background/bystanders when in public. You won't see LEOs going for head shots. A head shot might line you up for a murder charge, too, even if in a SD situation. You don't shoot to kill, you shoot to negate the threat.

Quote:
With my LCP mousegun I cannot do head shots rapidly(point shooting) unless really close so I practice 4x C of Mass and reassess.

The mousegun is obviously a poor second to the Glock.
No, it isn't. Mouseguns were NEVER designed to compete with or replace larger, more accurate pistols and revolvers. A mousegun is a belly-to-belly, up close and personal, "get off me", SURPRISE gun. It's designed to be a last-ditch, "rut-roh, the BG caught me napping" SD weapon. If you're accurate with one at 5 yards, you're doing great.

Quote:
Any suggestions on round placement/management for either gun??
Practice accuracy first. Take it slowly. Speed is nothing if you miss. Use the sights. "Point and shoot" either from low ready or looking over the top of the frame takes a LOT of practice with the same gun. Switching guns changes everything.
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Old May 23, 2009, 03:05 PM   #6
Rifleman 173
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You could do 2 to CM and ride the gun up as you continue to fire. So it would be 2 to center mass, 1 in the throat area and then 1 or 2 in the head. That should work pretty good to stop the threat to you.
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Old May 23, 2009, 09:32 PM   #7
glock06
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My mousegun shoots 380 FMJ's for penetration which are not my Glock's 1300fps+ HP's so I think that if I ever have to use this gun I go 3-4 x CM and then reassess for the last 2-3 remaining. Just 2 shots CM may not work for a 380. If the attacker keeps coming the the last two go for the CNS.

Good advice on passing on the Head shot for the Glock. 2 CM and one to the head could sound "brutal" if any distance seperates the shooter/attacker. The very rare shooting scenario that might justify such shots would be case of a wacko mass shooting of innocents,etc. Then a head shot may have some justification. Short of that nightmare the gunnie doing a head shot suddenly becomes a ruthless BG.
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Old May 23, 2009, 11:30 PM   #8
Keltyke
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Quote:
My mousegun shoots 380 FMJ's for penetration which are not my Glock's 1300fps+ HP's so I think that if I ever have to use this gun I go 3-4 x CM and then reassess for the last 2-3 remaining. Just 2 shots CM may not work for a 380.
May not work for your precious Glock, either. NO handgun round is a reliable stopper.
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Old May 24, 2009, 01:10 AM   #9
Blue Steel
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My suggestion would be shooting center mass until you stop the threat or run out of ammo. If the threat is inside double arms length you will probably be able to transition to throat/face hits if necessary.

Of course moving off the line of attack is something you wanting to be doing at the same time, not just standing your ground while you work the trigger.
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Old May 24, 2009, 05:59 AM   #10
glock06
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Quote--
NO handgun round is a reliable stopper!!

I absolutely agree.

True Story-
I have a retired policeman aqcuaintance shot a mentally ill person attacking in close with a large knife years ago with two 45 acp to the chest and the fellow STILL tried to advance.Initially the shots had little effect. Multiple other fellow officers witnessed the knife attack.

Finally after several seconds the attacker realized he was shot, ceased advancing, and collapsed.And yes, he died.Could he have pressed home his attack?? Maybe so--This policeman went through all kinds of ugly legal BS because he had a gun and the attacker had a knife. Unfortunately rascist charges were made.

Eventually the officer was cleared of all charges.Shooting anyone has grave consequences--
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Old May 24, 2009, 06:14 AM   #11
dogngun
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I would not think about head shots....try this - if you can,

run around a little immediately before shooting at your target, or do something
else to get your breathing and heart rate up to simulate a fear/fight response. Then try a head shot.

I have done this, and I stick to center chest, period.
Oh, yeah - my BUG is an old .32 ACP auto FEG, very light and flat, extremely reliabla, and large enough to be aboe to see te sights and get what there is out of the round. Practice with the BUG a lot!!!


mark
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Old May 24, 2009, 08:21 AM   #12
A_McDougal
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Anybody have a laser on a mousegun? I thought that was the textbook solution for quick aiming.
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Old May 24, 2009, 12:41 PM   #13
troy_mclure
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they make a laser for the kel tec p32/p3at.

i have a p32, 8 shots, i plan on(and practice) unloading all 8 shots center mass, unless there are multiple assailants. then ill fire 4 and switch targets.
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Old May 26, 2009, 04:19 PM   #14
mrt949
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PRACTICE ,PRACTICE ,PRACTICE.Is the only way to be safe.
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Old May 26, 2009, 04:33 PM   #15
Bill DeShivs
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Laser are not a substitute for accuracy and practice. They don't work well in bright light, use batteries that are prone to die, and use electronics that are prone to fail. Learn to shoot the little gun-and at distances further than 7 yards. I have not shot the Ruger, but my Keltecs point-shoot extremely well.
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Old May 26, 2009, 10:13 PM   #16
Deaf Smith
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Quote:
The mousegun is obviously a poor second to the Glock.

Any suggestions on round placement/management for either gun??
06,

Yes the LCP does not have the ability of the Glock. Neither does my Kel-Tec P3AT. You will find it very hard to get consistant head shots with your LCP at any range past maybe 3 or 4 yards if you fire it under realistic conditions (that is, low light, one handed, and maybe a bit of movment from you or the attacker.)

So don't try to make the LCP a precision weapon. It was designed as a close range SD tool and only for that. Your Glock, on the other hand, is a general purpose weapon. Does so many things better than the LCP except hideing out.

Just practice as much as you can with your Glock and carry it as much as you can. The LCP is a last ditch gun. Treat it that way and try not to carry it as your primarly.
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Old May 26, 2009, 10:23 PM   #17
fastforty
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Quote:
Any suggestions on round placement/management for either gun??
Mousegun= Shoot till it's empty (while backing away). Carry 1-3 extra magazines & practice emergency reloads.
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Old May 27, 2009, 06:41 AM   #18
glock06
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Mouseguns can be poor stoppers, especially 380 calibers and below.

Some folks recommend shooting to slide lock on a mousegun, then reassess.
A police acquaintance spoke to the wife and suggested if confronted by an attacker and lethal force is needed, empty the gun, then drop or throw it at the assailant and run!!.

Food for thought!!
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Old May 27, 2009, 07:40 AM   #19
5whiskey
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I'm not in the "shoot till slide lock" camp on this. I carry a .32, and I fire 2x COM and reassess. That re-assess occurs as I'm creating distance from the BG, and it takes very little time. The double tap is automatic though, and if I'm still being assaulted then the re-assess would be virtually non-existent.

At any rate, I DO agree with most that the mouse gun is not precision enough to make a headshot in a stressful SD situation. My recommendation, if a few round COM doesn't do the trick, is to go for groin shots. They hurt like hell, if for some dumb reason the assailant is wearing Armour then the groin will still be exposed, and it's a much larger target and more realistic to hit than the head.
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Old May 28, 2009, 09:37 AM   #20
Housezealot
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Quote:
NO handgun round is a reliable stopper!!
.500 magnum? being so easy to conceal and all!

I don't know were the saying originated but I like the adage
"Aim small miss small"
seems like good advice (even if I heard it in a movie)
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