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Old May 23, 2009, 10:23 AM   #1
enyaw
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Kirst Konverters

Can anyone give any insight into the conversion kit for the Colt 1860 Army cap&ballers? Anything known to man or beast is welcomed.
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Old May 23, 2009, 11:00 AM   #2
SamStafford
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I was going to get the Kirst untill I saw the price tag. I went with the R&D one($225).
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Old May 23, 2009, 11:56 AM   #3
4V50 Gary
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Here's something from our sister forum, THR. Click on this link to a particular post and it'll give you links to a three-part article on that conversion cylinder. Note: While it's not for the Colt M1860, it is for the Ruger Old Army. Link Here
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Old May 23, 2009, 09:36 PM   #4
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I recently made a decision to buy the R&D for my 1858 Remmy. The Kirst was going to require some gunsmithing, which I can't do.

In fact, I fired the gun with the R&D for the first time today and have to say I was not at all disappointed with it. It works beautifully. I like the option of being able to shoot BP and cartridges in the same gun, same day.

One consideration that maybe someone else can expand on is that the R&D makes more sense to me for the Remington because it's so easy to flip the cylinder in and out. On Colts, such as the 1860, it's not as easy, so maybe the Kirst with a loading gate makes more sense there.

In fact, any comments from other members would be appreciated because I have an 1851 Navy, 1860 Army, and 1861 Navy that I might consider buying a conversion cylinder for.
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Old May 23, 2009, 10:29 PM   #5
madcratebuilder
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Quote:
One consideration that maybe someone else can expand on is that the R&D makes more sense to me for the Remington because it's so easy to flip the cylinder in and out. On Colts, such as the 1860, it's not as easy, so maybe the Kirst with a loading gate makes more sense there.
I'm thinking the same way. I keep reading about the conversion cylinders but haven't jumped on the band wagon. I have over a dozen SA cartridge revolvers that don't get used enough as it is. I would like to have a Richards-Mason conversion on a open top.
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Old May 23, 2009, 11:39 PM   #6
enyaw
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Madcrate...you say open top....do you mean the style of the Colt percussions or do you mean the 1871-2 Open Top that never was a percussion but came from the factory cartridge and the style never was a percussion and was an improvement over the Richards and Richards mason conversion?
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Old May 24, 2009, 07:55 AM   #7
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Here's some info on the R/M conversion I found. I think the conversion was used on the Colts in .36 and .44. Some done by the factory and some done by local gunsmiths. I have seen 51's, 60's and 61's done with the R/M. I think the Kirst comes close to the original.

In 1871, Colt employee Charles Richards was awarded a patent for converting Colt percussion models to breech loading cartridge revolvers. The Richards cartridge conversion was an instant success. On July 2, 1872, William Mason, another Colt employee, was awarded a patent for an improvement to the Richards model. As percussion parts ran short, the 1860 Richards-Mason barrel was changed from the profile of the earlier percussion model, to the sleek profile found on the 1871-72 Open Top.
Conversion models remained popular with cowboys (many originals will be found with imprints of fence staples on the butt) even after the introduction of the 1873 ColtĀ®. This was due to the low cost of conversion models.
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Old May 24, 2009, 04:09 PM   #8
Wobble
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If you're interested, there was recently a whole discussion here (http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=358200) about what is a "conversion" and what is not.
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Old May 24, 2009, 04:33 PM   #9
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I saw part of that thread, I have the capt on my ignore list, keeps my blood pressure down.
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Old May 24, 2009, 04:53 PM   #10
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MCB, I'm with you on that.
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Old May 24, 2009, 05:09 PM   #11
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Repeat after me: The ignore list is my friend, the ignore list is my friend
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Old May 24, 2009, 05:47 PM   #12
Oldfalguy
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What I did

I thought about which cylinder-Krist or R&D to go with for several of my BP revolvers.
While either will do well with the ROA because with both it has to be removed to be reloaded I thought perhaps the R&D would be best since it has 6 firing pins vs one onthe Krist. However, I bought the Krist as the fella who had several at a local gunshow was a gunsmith and while he had the ROA for tuning I had him fit it for the Krist and the SS of the Krist matches the ROA very well. Otherwise I could have gone with R&D.
For the 1860 and the Remington, both are being fitted with Krist with loading gates-R&D only makes loading gate models for a couple of pistols 51/61's (I think) converting to 38LC- With the lack of ease swapping cylinders the reason is obvious (for me) on the 1860. while the Remington is an easy cylinder swap (than even the ROA) for me there is no reason to remove a 2 piece conversion cylinder when the ability exist to have a loading gate and its pretty easy to do on the Remington. Someone even make a spring loaded Ejector conversion that takes the place of the loading ram to eject the spent empties.
With either of these cylinders one can shoot 45LC or 45 Schofield, the latter which I am going with myself.
Mark
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Old May 25, 2009, 02:13 PM   #13
CaptainCrossman
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"Kirst Konverters-Can anyone give any insight into the conversion kit for the Colt 1860 Army cap&ballers? Anything known to man or beast is welcomed."


they are the best made, but they are the most costly- you can practically buy a complete gun for what the conversion cyl costs. I'd recommend them for the ROA, Walker, Dragoon- but for the 1860 just buy the conversion gun from Cimarron, etc. and it's ready to shoot
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Old May 25, 2009, 02:52 PM   #14
long rider
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I got a R&D drop in for my 58 rem when they first
came out, i got it from taylors, i loaded smokless
as well as bp cases, but the down side of the R&D
cylinder is you have to remove the cylinder from
the pistol, but then so did clint in pale rider
i paid 225 for the cylinder which i might add was
3 times more than i paid for the smoke pole years
ago, i made a 8" nylon rod to knock out the spent
cases, so its a matter of what suits your needs.
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Old May 25, 2009, 06:33 PM   #15
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I did a 45 Colt Kirst conversion to a 51/2 Uberti 1860 3 years ago. Has to dissasemble gun. Then it takes a dremmel and a few sanding drums to cut out the loading port. Refinish it and put it back together. I went with the optional extractor.
Really had a great time.
Very expensive however at least in my state it is not registered to anyone.

Check out this link...

http://www.riverjunction.com/kirst/
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Old May 25, 2009, 08:03 PM   #16
scrat
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the job is really easy. i did it to my 1858 pietta. i started out using a dreme. then just thought this sucks. so i took out my corded makita and used the 5/8 grinding drum then drum sanders. then took apart the gun and refinished it. the end result is awesome. i also have a R&D for my Walker. its just so much fun shooting it with the loading gate and not having to remove the cylinder all the time. you dont have to be a gunsmith.. The cylinder was a little long when i got it. i shaved a bit off the front then the back feet to make it fit properly then took apart the gun and ported it out. then refinsh here are some pics.



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Old May 25, 2009, 08:04 PM   #17
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Old May 25, 2009, 09:01 PM   #18
long rider
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SCRAT, i think i must be missing something here?
that is a conversion cylinder is it not? and that
finshed color its looks like a brown? which looks
real cool, i wanna know more on this pistol you
done.
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Old May 25, 2009, 09:15 PM   #19
scrat
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the whole gun has a brownish to it. aged to perfection


take a look at the back strap here



i learned it from a local gunsmith. i used the birchwood casey cold bluing finish. now what you do when you remove the bluing clean the gun normal process then very lightly use steel wool on the gun. When you remove the finish it will leave some brownish spots on the gun that are supposed to be either reaply the removal or buff out with steel wool. Well i opted for leaving it. you have to really use your imagination on how it will look when your done. when you apply the cold blue those brownish areas look so cool. almost like a case hardened finish to a antique looking finish. on some parts of the gun i barely put any of the cold bluing on so it would have the worn out look. like the back strap and just other areas. overall when you see the gun in your hands the finish looks so good. When you turn the gun in ceratin light it looks really old. soo cool
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Old May 25, 2009, 09:21 PM   #20
long rider
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MAN that looks cool.
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Old May 25, 2009, 09:53 PM   #21
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A real nice job Scrat...that's one nice lookin' Rem Konvertion. That's what I was lookin' to do a Rem rear feeder w/o the gate though. Cost effective but I don't know if i could interchange the Kirst between three differant Mfg. like I could the R&D Cylinder. (Uberti, ASP/Euroarms, & E.N. Santa Barbara Rems.)
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Old May 25, 2009, 11:15 PM   #22
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That looks great, I really like the age grips.
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