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Old May 17, 2009, 07:27 AM   #1
CaptainCrossman
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over the top customized Ruger Old Army

I don't know whether to point and laugh, wince and cry, be embarassed for this guy, or be impressed- maybe a little of each ?

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIte...Item=124191336
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Old May 17, 2009, 07:28 AM   #2
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Old May 17, 2009, 07:29 AM   #3
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Old May 17, 2009, 07:31 AM   #4
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Old May 17, 2009, 07:52 AM   #5
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Hi CC

Is that the gun from gunbroker?

Cerainly looks nice & well set up I'm droolin', thats for sure. Talk about 'old meets new' tho.... I'll bet its pretty darn accurate tho

I think loading the cylinder to the top & press in a ball is a bit over the top, myself though. I am very happy (and accurate) with my ROA's with around 30gr black, breadcrumbs for filler to bring the ball to the appropriate level in the cylinder. I found any more than 30gr -32gr is wasteful and detrimental to accuracy, and when I have od'ed on breadcrumbs and tried to press in the ball, I have had to take to the front of the ball with a pocket knife to allow the cylinder to swing.... as it wouldn't go any deeper & was protruding so it hit the forcing cone, so obviously couldnt index & line up.

I guess you meant to load up the cylinder (less ball depth) but, for me, personally, I think this would be impressive (sound & smoke) but wasteful and perhaps less accurate?

That gun in the pics sure is a beauty tho
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Old May 17, 2009, 10:33 AM   #6
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We had a rather lengthy discussion about that abomination on RugerForum. Most people agreed it was the ugliest thing they had ever seen. Makes me want to hurl. :barf:
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Old May 17, 2009, 12:29 PM   #7
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>>>We had a rather lengthy discussion about that abomination on RugerForum. Most people agreed it was the ugliest thing they had ever seen. Makes me want to hurl.<<<

Yeah, I remember that. I just don't get it other than, "I'm rich so let's spend some money here." What's the owner trying to accomplish? There's a muzzle loading season and a pistol season for hunting but there's no muzzle loading pistol season that I know of anywhere so what gives? If I'm hunting with a pistol it'll be a Super Blackhawk, not an Old Army fer Pete's sake. And while I can see someone spending some money on a C&B pistol to get it set up for Cowboy Action shooting that's obviously not what's going on here either.

Weird, just weird...

Oly
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Old May 17, 2009, 02:20 PM   #8
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Old May 17, 2009, 03:54 PM   #9
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Not everyone wants to be a cowboy action shooter.
There was a lot of custom work done on that piece, and many folks would prefer that barrel length.
It's looks like a good configuration to be fired with a centerfire conversion cylinder.
While the missing open sights, scope & mount are a matter of personal preference, at least the buyer purchased it at a fairly reasonable price.
I wouldn't be interested in buying it but at least the designer built an attractive ROA employing some modern revisions.
Not to dissimilar from some BlackHawks.

Last edited by arcticap; May 17, 2009 at 10:00 PM.
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Old May 17, 2009, 04:01 PM   #10
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Can someone please explain the purpose of a ventilated rib on top of a black powder revolver? More weight = less recoil?
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Old May 17, 2009, 04:09 PM   #11
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If the scope & mount was removed, the vent rib may provide a useful sighting plane like it does for a shotgun.
I don't think that it's designed to dissipate heat, but it does make for a more modern appearance.
I do think that rib could be beneficial for sighting though, even if a front blade, bead[s] or a fiber optic rib sight needed to be installed.
A high rib certainly helps when trap shooting with shotguns.

Last edited by arcticap; May 17, 2009 at 09:54 PM.
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Old May 17, 2009, 04:26 PM   #12
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There's a muzzle loading season and a pistol season for hunting but there's no muzzle loading pistol season that I know of anywhere so what gives?
Well in my parts they call it primative firearms season, and cap and ball revolvers at least .44 caliber or larger are legal.

Last edited by teeroux; May 17, 2009 at 10:26 PM.
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Old May 17, 2009, 04:26 PM   #13
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Hi CC
Is that the gun from gunbroker?

Cerainly looks nice & well set up I'm droolin', thats for sure. Talk about 'old meets new' tho.... I'll bet its pretty darn accurate tho

I think loading the cylinder to the top & press in a ball is a bit over the top, myself though. I am very happy (and accurate) with my ROA's with around 30gr black




I look at it this way:

the popular BP CB 44 cal. pistols are not all that heavy in charge, with chambers topped off, I measured them:

Remington 1858- 42 grains
Colt 1860- 39 grains
Colt 1851 (hist. inaccurate)- 37 grains
Ruger Old Army- 48 grains


topped off and ball pressed in, you're basically shooting a 44-40 or 45 Long Colt blackpowder cartridge load- nothing so spectacular there in the velocity or pressure dept.

to really get in the "over the top" level, you'd have to get a Dragoon or Walker- last week I fired my just bought Walker w/full chambers right off, as soon as I got it- no big deal, really. That was 60 grains BP substitute, Pioneer brand- and basically works out to a very weak Hawken rifle load.
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Old May 17, 2009, 04:30 PM   #14
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I guess you meant to load up the cylinder (less ball depth) but, for me, personally, I think this would be impressive (sound & smoke) but wasteful and perhaps less accurate?





nope, I meant cylinder filled to top, and "struck"- i.e. level with rim- then pack in ball. Shooting the Walker this way, it appeared to shoot as good as I could hold it- and put a "minute of man" pattern on an old car hood 25 yards away. I'd wager next time it'll do even better, when with a rest.

a cylinder full of black behind a round ball in a BP CB gun, is basically the ballistic equivalent of the 44-40 or 45 Colt blackpowder cartridge c. 1870's era- only hand loaded loose in the chamber, rather than in a cartridge. They typically used approx. 40 grains blackpowder- this is not overloading the gun in any way. See links below for load info. When cartridges first came out, they used the same steels as the blackpowder c/b guns used, in the cartridge guns. It was only when smokeless powder came out in the 1890's, that the steels had to be improved once again, to take the increased pressure of the smokeless powder. The result was, a big case that was meant for blackpowder, like the 45 Colt, with just a dribble of smokeless powder in it. I've loaded a ton of cowboy ammo w/smokeless, 44 Colt and 38 Special, and the case if mostly empty w/smokeless powder used. Yet you can fill it right up to the top, when loading blackpowder cartridges. This is what led to the 45 Colt being replaced by the 45 ACP, they had no use for all that case capacity, once the smokeless powders came out. Using the same approach, you can basically load a 38 Short Colt to the same velocity as a 38 Special cowboy cartridge load, the short will hold the 5 grains of powder just fine, with less open space to cause problems with the load.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Colt

The 45 Colt originally was a blackpowder cartridge, but modern loadings use smokeless powder. The original blackpowder loads called for 28 to 40 grains (2.6 g) of blackpowder behind a 255-grain (16.5 g) lead bullet. These loads developed muzzle velocities of up to 1000 feet per second (305 m/s), for a muzzle energy of 566 ft·lbf (766 J.).[2] Because of this power and its excellent accuracy the .45 Colt was the most-used cartridge of its time, succeeding the .44 WCF (also known as the .44-40 Winchester)


http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...9/ai_n8968390/

In its day the .45 Colt was a humdinger, pure and simple. It was designed for black powder, and those old factory loads with 35 to 40 grains were powerful by any standard. They had to be. In developing the .45 Colt cartridge, the U.S. Army intended it for the cavalry. Cavalry combat in those days meant horses, and they are both easier to hit and harder to knock down than people. So the Army's cartridge developers wanted a handgun cartridge with power beyond what was needed for people.


They got it too. The .45 Colt, with black powder loads, was rated at about 900 fps with 250 grain bullets from the 7.5" barrel of a Colt SAA. In the black powder era no other handgun cartridge was close, except the .44 WCF (.44-40). Others, such as .45 S&W (Schofield) .44 Russian, .44 Colt, .44 American and so forth all did good to break 750 fps, and with lighter bullets at that. In my personal experience a case-full of black powder in the .45 Colt often exceeds 900 fps and sometimes breaks 1,000 fps, depending on the exact type and amount of powder used. So the .45 Colt's case was made 1.285" long to hold all that black powder. Incidentally that length is the same as for .357, .41 and .44 Magnums.

Now fast forward to the smokeless powder era. To equal black powder ballistics and pressures in the .45 Colt requires tiny little charges of most smokeless propellants. Lyman's newest RELOADING HANDBOOK #48 lists MAX loads with 250 grain bullets as being 9 grains of Unique, 7.4 grains of W231, or 6.2 grains of Titegroup. I swear, when one of those charges is dropped into a .45 Colt case I hear an echo! And what sort of velocities do they get with those MAX charges? The most is with the W231 load and it's a "blistering" 894 fps from a 7.5" barrel.

And those tiny little charges in great big cases can lead to all sorts of problems. The least of which is gas blow-by. That is caused when the cartridge case walls don't obdurate to seal the chamber and gas leaks back along the case. It's harmless, but is the reason behind your .45 Colt cases being burnt black along one side after firing.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.44-40_Winchester

The initial standard load for the cartridge was 40 grains (2.6 g) of blackpowder propelling a 200-grain (13 g) bullet at approximately 1,245 f.p.s (feet per second), but in 1886 U.M.C. also began offering a slightly heavier 217-grain (14.1 g) bullet at 1,190 ft/s (360 m/s), also with 40 grains (2.6 g) of blackpowder.

Last edited by CaptainCrossman; May 18, 2009 at 05:58 AM.
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Old May 17, 2009, 04:35 PM   #15
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The purpose of a ventilated rib is to not have the mirage above a hot barrel disturb your aim. Black powder seems to heat up barrels a lot more than smokeless does for some reason.

Shoot a round of trap using shotshells loaded with black powder and then touch the barrel and you'll see what I mean. Shoot 6 shots out of a .44 magnum using smokeless powder and the barrel is warm, do the same with black powder loads and the barrel is hot.
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Old May 17, 2009, 05:04 PM   #16
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me like.

Apart from the ventilated rib, the mother-of-alien hammer design, and the grips.. i quite like the idea.
Shooting metal silhouettes with a BP sixgun, why not?
it definitely makes more sense to me than doing the same with a .50 Deagle,
or at least it sounds more of a challenge.
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Old May 17, 2009, 05:24 PM   #17
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Old May 17, 2009, 05:37 PM   #18
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A vent rib on top of the Colt Python makes sense to me - especially if you're into double action shooting and have speedloaders. Revolvers can get hot and I've fired off as many as 300 rounds as quick as I can (double action mode after the gun is drawn from the holster and raised to slightly below eye level). However, on a black powder revolver, you're not going to get that high rate of fire. Something about it being a muzzleloader and a single action gun slows it down.
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Old May 17, 2009, 06:54 PM   #19
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Sheeesh, a C&B spacegun. What'll they think of next :barf:
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Old May 18, 2009, 05:54 AM   #20
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Unread Yesterday, 07:54 PM #19
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Sheeesh, a C&B spacegun. What'll they think of next
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(laughter...) now that was funny !!
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Old May 18, 2009, 07:54 AM   #21
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I know what's missing!

Hydraulic rammer for greater consistency in compression and seating depth.
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Old May 18, 2009, 07:57 AM   #22
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I like it

The gun, obviously to its owner, looks, feels & shoots how he likes it... he has personalised it to how he likes it.... good on him.

I liken it to someone having an old car & putting on new mag wheels... doesnt help the car much, but if the owner likes it.... mission accopmplished

He likes it, I like it, some of you other gus like it.... some don't.... so what? dont buy it

I bet it shoots well.... after all, it is an ROA still... & ROA's are pretty darn accurate to start with....

This one gets a +1 from me

(now, if it were all done to a flintlock pistol.... that might be over the top)
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Old May 18, 2009, 09:30 AM   #23
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I liken it to someone having an old car & putting on new mag wheels...
Except that an old car with modern wheels can be extremely tasteful if done right.
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Old May 18, 2009, 10:46 AM   #24
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>>>(now, if it were all done to a flintlock pistol.... that might be over the top)<<<

LOL! Now THAT almost sounds like a mission! You just wait to see my "tactical", all-black, picatinny railed, red dot scoped, ultra high capacity (uh...) FLINTLOCK just as soon as I can gin one up.

Cheers,
Oly
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Old May 18, 2009, 10:51 AM   #25
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Hmmmmm, sounds like a idea.
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