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Old May 16, 2009, 11:46 PM   #26
Hirlau
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Not fair, OutCast

You posted the same "rant" twice.

That could get you another citation.
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Old May 16, 2009, 11:52 PM   #27
sholling
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I suspect that our troll has never been in law enforcement except in his dreams. I for one am through feeding the troll.
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Old May 16, 2009, 11:56 PM   #28
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Quote:
Not fair, OutCast
No problem, I can just get my peers to back me up, either stating that it was a "distraction post" and saying that it was perfectly acceptable, or they can bemoan my lack of proper "forum training" as a defense.
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Old May 16, 2009, 11:59 PM   #29
Dust Monkey
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More coptalk infant posts.

Back to my initial post if any LE trainers in use of force would like to chime in, opine on this, please do. This "distraction blow" is BS. I just got off the phone with a retired State Trooper (retired this year). Read him the article and some of the posts here supporting these actions. His reply, ***. That's about all I can relay on what he said on his forum without getting banned.

What bothers me, if some cops think this distraction blow is ok, what happens if I or another citizen get pulled over. You know, jus happen to match the description of a vehicle that robbed a bank or shot someone. We comply, lay prone and do as we are told. Is there a chance we get kicked in the head?

The very idea that this incident is OK is mind numbing.
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Old May 17, 2009, 12:03 AM   #30
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OuTcAsT you owe me a keyboard. I just spit tea all over it reading that last post of yours.

And I agree. Let's talk about this in incident and ignore the trolling.
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Old May 17, 2009, 12:08 AM   #31
Hirlau
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Quote; "any LE trainers in use of force would like to chime in, opine on this, please do"


Again, I ask , "Why would they want to? "
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Old May 17, 2009, 12:19 AM   #32
Sarge
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I won't claim to know every current training doctrine related to force-on-force.

We were taught to hit/kick/throw/choke in response to being attacked. I was taught that if you have reason to hit/kick someone, you hit them like you intend to take them out of the fight with the first one you land. The object was to win and win fast, avoid injury and not lose your gun.

We were taught that beating/kicking proned-out, compliant suspects was an excellent way to get to meet FBI agents and have the unique distinction of getting criminally prosecuted & sued simultaneously, under federal statutes.

Still, I think this term 'distraction blow' is another way of saying 'diversionary tactic'- which sort of tattles on the motivation behind using it, in the first place.
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Old May 17, 2009, 12:59 AM   #33
Dust Monkey
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Sarge

You summed up what I was taught and was attempting to explain.

Distraction blow, diversion tactics, all good uses of force. They just don't apply in this incident. The officer had a prone, compliant subject. He had his weapon drawn pointed at the subject. Why the kick. There was no justifiable action to do so. What if during the kick, the officer AD/ND his weapon hitting the suspect? He had to get close to the suspect to kick him, too close, no backup. What if the suspect had taken be weapon from the officer? Now you have a dead officer and a suspect that was unarmed now armed and could kill another officer or citizen. This officer had his head in his nether regions. He has no business wearing a badge. This incident proves he is not able to make correct decisions in a heated situation.
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Last edited by Dust Monkey; May 17, 2009 at 02:27 AM.
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Old May 17, 2009, 01:07 AM   #34
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Is a full copy of tape available online. Without seeing a full tape I cannot opine inteligently. If he was moving his hand toward his body the copper might be justified in giving a stunning blow. If it was a extra biff for being a P.O.S. it should've been done in private.

Sorry, but if the element thinks it's ok to play the role without ramification we will lose the street.
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Old May 17, 2009, 01:21 AM   #35
maestro pistolero
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Cops who beat compliant subjects are doing a disservice to their profession that, in the long run erodes trust of the citizen and eventually will endanger more officers.

LE "techniques" like kicking compliant, prone subjects in the head, is about the best way imaginable to CONVINCINGLY teach the public that compliance itself is dangerous behavior.

If this unlawful activity continues unchecked, it will ultimately result in more injuries and possible deaths to both suspects and officers, because more suspects will resist with greater and greater force due to legitimate fear.

An officer's power, and control comes as much from trust, and respect as it does from force. If officers lose the respect and trust of the bulk of the citizenry, they have lost a lot more than just 'the street'.
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Old May 17, 2009, 01:25 AM   #36
Dust Monkey
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"Should have been done in private".

You condone actions like this? The street element should be afraid of ramifications? From police officers? Cops do not dish out justice. That is the job of the courts. Cops doing this in private. That makes you worse than the criminals. Man I hope you don't wear a badge.

"We will lose the street". Sounds like gang talk to me. Gangs with badges. It's sickning.
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Old May 17, 2009, 01:53 AM   #37
Hirlau
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Nothing To Do With Firearms.

From the OP, nothing to do with firearms, shooting or promotion of our (TFL) interests. (Firearms)

Dust Monkey,
Have the dignity to call this one a draw and close your own thread.

Goodnight!
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Old May 17, 2009, 02:08 AM   #38
maestro pistolero
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It has nothing to do with dignity, Hirlau, and it doesn't have to be about firearms to be relevant here.

From the Forum Rules for Law and Civil Rights:
Quote:
Discussions in this forum will be centered upon legal issues as they relate to the 2nd Amendment and other Civil Rights. Constitutional law (which would encompass separation of powers, the impairment of contracts clause, the full faith and credit clause, etc., as well as the Bill of Rights) will also be on topic.
You think this is a DRAW? Maybe it's just me, but I think a face-down, compliant, subject with his arms and legs outstretched has a civil right not to be kicked in the head, no matter what the POS did before that moment. One can't justify one criminal act because of another. It's assault, any way you slice it.
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Old May 17, 2009, 02:20 AM   #39
Dust Monkey
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It's not a draw. It's a topic covered under the TFL charter. I don't see why you want a draw called. You are the only one I the minority thinking this cop was in the right. Then posting childish retorts trying your best to turn this into an anti cop thread.

This is a pro civil rights discussion. The suspect had his civil rights violated under color of law (which is a Federal Offense). Hopefully a fed case will come out of this. If it does and the officer gets arrested, let's hope he does not get kicked in the head while being compliant.
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Last edited by Dust Monkey; May 17, 2009 at 02:25 AM.
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Old May 17, 2009, 03:41 AM   #40
maestro pistolero
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Per Request

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLE0CMGz4m4

Or just search police abuse on youtube and it pops right up. The Chief was at a loss for words, weakly suggesting that the subject may have had his hands under his body. You be the judge.
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Old May 17, 2009, 06:39 AM   #41
Al Norris
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The only tickets being issued at TFL, are those given by the moderators.

This thread has been dragged way off topic by a single individual. It would have been better had no one responded to the obvious troll. That report post button is there for a reason, folks. Please, use it next time.

Should new information come to light, this topic may be brought up again. Until such a time....

Closed for trolling and taking the low road.
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