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Old May 14, 2009, 12:11 AM   #1
pizzapaiute
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Condors again

The local paper, Thousand Oaks Daily News had an article today about another condor that died due to lead poisoning. They said it also had lead shot in it's body, but that did not cause the death. Does it ever end?
I just had to vent.
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Old May 14, 2009, 01:25 AM   #2
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If they restrict lead too much it will essentially end the shooting sports. There is currently no suitable substitute that would work in .22LR firearms, and in other firearms where there are suitable subs, the cost of plinking and informal shooting will become prohibitive.

What's sad is that I've seen shooters supporting lead restrictions as a commonsense idea...
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Old May 24, 2009, 01:08 AM   #3
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i have to beg to differ john, winchester just released its new alloy 22lr round... and it is pricey to
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Old May 24, 2009, 03:41 AM   #4
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Interesting. Just anounced earlier this year. Guess I'm not keeping up with current events as well as I thought.

http://www.winchester.com/news/newsv...px?storyid=257

I wonder how they perform.
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Old May 24, 2009, 12:05 PM   #5
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They said it also had lead shot in it's body
Well, I would say the problem is not the lead, but people actually shooting condors.
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Old May 24, 2009, 08:52 PM   #6
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Yup- Lead is banned wherever the condor flies. I am going pig hunting by King City, Cal next month. The guide told me not to bring lead. Fortunately, my son and I had loaded up some solid copper rounds for our .308's. But that means I can't use my Model 70 .270 because I use Corelokt 130g rounds for it...
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Old June 5, 2009, 03:57 AM   #7
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The condor is a a majestic bird, but this lead BS is just another excuse to make more money from hunters. I live in southern California and I have to deal with this lead BS too.
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Old June 5, 2009, 10:10 AM   #8
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Well, I would say the problem is not the lead, but people actually shooting condors.
+1 to that.

There are lots of idiot redneck hobby farmers around here that will shoot any raptor they see thinking it is a "chicken hawk." While the Cooper's hawk has been called chicken hawk it only goes after chicks... And they don't live around here.

I wouldn't be surprised if some moron has taken a shot at our local bald eagle.
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Old June 5, 2009, 01:31 PM   #9
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Now just how much lead could a Condor have in it's body if he can still fly?

KIDDING, just kidding!
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Old June 5, 2009, 11:10 PM   #10
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I hear condors actually taste pretty good- Somewhere between a spotted owl and bald eagle...
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Old June 6, 2009, 08:21 AM   #11
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thing is w/ this whole condor thing is that the argument is that when expanding rifle bullets are used and 'break up' a little bit in the gut pile of an animal, and the vulture...opps i mean condor, eats it thats when it gets lead poisoning. So how about things like brennekke slugs? you know they are not going to break off tiny high velocity peices of lead like a rifle bullet when the shoulder is hit. they will stay together and totally punch through, maybe a bit deformed but thats about it. and land in the landscape fully intact...if a condor wants to eat a 1oz+ chunk of lead, we got bigger problems. Also what about bullets from things like the 45-70. you arent going to get that high velocity spray of lead in the guts, its going to hit, expand, and punch a hole out the other side fully intact. But of course you will never hear these anti-gun people, i mean condor lovers, say that certain lower velocity, very high weight retaining bullets/slugs can be used. No they will never do that they will just ban them ALL.

then again i guess this is assuming that these people have common sense, which they clearly dont so its a lost cause.

PS: I was watching a show on the condors recently and to show how the lead gets into the food the condors eat, some 'condor savior' person takes a 55 gallon plastic drum and lays it open side towards him propped up about 4' off the ground. so he will be shooting into the barrel. next he fills the inside with 1 gallon plastic jugs of water. then he sets up about 50' away w/ a high velocity expanding bullet (i wouldnt be surprised if they used something like a varmint bullet) and fired. Of course when the plastic jug pieces were removed there was the 'evidence' of all the lead particles laying in the bottom of the drum. and they guy proceeds to say how thats what happens when an animal is shot and the gut pile is left there. Hardy realistic IMO

I'm all for having healthy species of animals, but when there are like 100 birds of one kind left, there is no way you are going to convience me that the entire reason for that is hunters bullets. Clearly the animal has failed to adapt to mild changes in its in enviornment. welcome to survival of the fittest.

Last edited by banditt007; June 6, 2009 at 11:45 PM.
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Old June 6, 2009, 08:35 AM   #12
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These stories and claims are aimed more at getting rid of bullets (and thus guns) than they are increasing the number of condors. If lead ammo is banned shooting becomes more expensive and guns become fewers. The anti gunners know they haven't had great success in banning guns so they go after the ammo and the condor is one of their best friends.
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Old June 6, 2009, 08:47 AM   #13
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Odds are that a coyote will find a pile of deer guts long before a condor does. Junk science strikes again, but then it's California where opinion seems to regularly outweigh fact.
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Old June 6, 2009, 09:03 AM   #14
roy reali
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re:Art Eatman

I guess that coyotes are immune to lead.
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Old June 6, 2009, 03:48 PM   #15
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The initial study did show that some dead condors had elevated lead levels in their blood but did not establish that the levels were due to anything other than natural lead in the environment.

The study was done by the Peregrine Fund, the same organization that temporarily stopped hunter meat donations (and caused the destruction of a large quantity--around half a ton, IIRC--of donated meat) in at least one state. They claimed that the meat could be contaminated with lead from bullets. A later study revealed that the concerns about lead particles (and their effects) in donated meat were baseless.
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Old June 6, 2009, 07:29 PM   #16
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roy, there's not enough lead in a pile of deer guts to hurt anything, much less a coyote. Well, yeah, okay, it already hurt the deer...

Think about the mechanics of the situation: Over and over, bullet manufacturers brag about weight retentions of 80% and above. That means that at most 20% of the bullet actually fragments. Copper and lead. We're not concerned about the copper. So, maybe 15% of a 150-grain .30 bullet splatters around--in the deer, on the ground, and occasionally a bad hit in the guts. 15 or 20 grains by weight? Somebody is gonna make me believe that every last bit of it gets ingested by any scavenger? For every meal? Further, we're talking about fragments, not a fine powder.

I often wonder if anybody has ever watched a scavenger eat. I hate to upset folks, but as near as I can tell, they look at what they put in their mouths just like people do. It's not like they're blind, or that their tongues have no taste buds.

Again: Preconceived notions, ignorance and junk science.
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Old June 7, 2009, 11:03 AM   #17
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Yep, the state of CA is well past the stage of being bankrupt. They are cutting nearly everything and Ahnold Governator has plans to close all the parks. Not to worry, CA will find more millions to study and pamper the condors.
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Old June 7, 2009, 11:09 AM   #18
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Junk science strikes again, but then it's California where opinion seems to regularly outweigh fact.
++1
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Old June 7, 2009, 11:39 AM   #19
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I live in MN where all these WINDOWLICKING ANTI HUNT IDIOTS have been bantering about lead in venison. I've written all the senators and reps and the gov., I know it won't help, but eh, what the heck. I use copper bullets, but strictly for the performance, not because of the toxicity of lead.
I mean really, how many people do you know that have died from eating "lead poisoned" meat? window lickers, i tell you you.
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Old June 7, 2009, 03:05 PM   #20
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It goes to show you what idiots can achieve. What do you expect from a state that outlawed smoking in bars. Just uterly senseless.
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Old June 7, 2009, 03:22 PM   #21
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The Condor is endangered from the destruction of it's habitat due to urban sprawl. I doubt you will see the hippies and liberals relinquish there population centers for the sake of an oversized vulture. They would much rather use this animal to further the socialist, liberal, anti-gun agenda. Get real, in the real world condors don't go around eating lead whenever they see it.
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Old June 7, 2009, 10:45 PM   #22
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I'm not gonna lock this, but let's at least try to keep the politics from being the main part of any more posts, okay?
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