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Old May 9, 2009, 09:10 PM   #1
glock06
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Best TACTICAL carry gun-Glock or 1911??

I feel the Glock has many virtues, but as a full size tactical handgun carried in a heavy belted holster rig it just doesn't meet my preferences.

What would we want??
Reliability
Knockdown power
Controllable firepower for followup shots
Accuracy, close and at distance
Onboard safety mechanisms due to public display
Any others?

Any such tactical gun is on public display and at real risk for seizure and to be turned on the user with fatal results. A Glock carried in most open holsters just screams "shoot me" and I would be very anxious about that possibility.
A 1911 has an advantage here with its safeties, but obviously has a different learning curve to become proficient. Supposedly, a dedicated user may have to draw 1500 times working the thumb safety before it becomes second nature. The value of such safeties? Obviously, the user needs time to get to a backup gun if his primary is taken away. A 1911 may give the user time to neutralize the threat.Better than begging for mercy with a scumbag.

A Glock with a standard Glock trigger seems high risk if handled by less than dedicated people.A long history of Law enforcement disasters and AD's validate this fact. Personally I think a New York trigger and a level three holster should be mandated for entry folk until they could train and prove they can handle a more complex handgun.Should a qualified 1911 user require such protections? If it is a quality 1911 gun and carries a 4-5 pound trigger, maybe not!!

Accuracy? The steel to steel contact on a quality 1911 puts it in a different league than the glock.Groups for my Springfield can be one half as small as my big Glocks.!!

So I feel that a quality full size 1911 can logically best a full size Glock for tactical demands.

My only reservation is reliability. If I had my druthers I would get a custom Wilson gun and probably see how reliably it shoots Fed HS. If this round were reliable it would be my tactical round with FMJ for back/up.

Any fussing, cussing, or other other feelings on this issue??

Last edited by glock06; May 9, 2009 at 09:22 PM.
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Old May 9, 2009, 09:37 PM   #2
Boats
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I served as a reserve deputy many years ago and refused to carry an issued Glock 17, 19, 22, or 23, getting permission instead to carry a privately owned Beretta 92FS. Officially, my issues with the Glock centered on my being a horrible shot with it, demonstrated on the qual course by barely qualifying with the Glock on purpose by shooting it high and then scoring six points from perfect with the Beretta, which I much prefer.

Unofficially, my issue with Glocks in a duty holster are yours. A retention battle over a Glock is automatically a life or death fight--for you or the suspect. With the Beretta, a retention battle meant to focus on control of the weapon first and get the trigger disconnect safety ON and drop the mag if losing was becoming a reality.

An account of an officer down in the South having to lay atop his Glock to avoid being murdered with it as the suspect pounded his face until he was saved by an armed bystander only cements it for me. I would not ever carry any manual safety-less pistol open carry in uniform save perhaps for a M&P with a mag disconnect.

People will argue the point, but more officers, by far, have been murdered or injured with their own weapons than have ever "left the safety on" or been killed by a mishap involving a mag disconnect.
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Old May 9, 2009, 09:57 PM   #3
scorpion_tyr
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Quote:
Reliability
Both Glock and a decent 1911 are good enough here IMO.

Quote:
Knockdown power
That's not something the gun decides. That's 100% up to the shooter and the ammunition, in that order.

Quote:
Controllable firepower for followup shots
Personally I would say 1911, but the real answer is probably whichever you have the most time on the range with. There's too many variables in this equation, and I'm too lazy.

Quote:
Accuracy, close and at distance
For the sake of simplicity I would say this also mostly up to the shooter. I am of the thinking that 99% of handguns are more accurate than the person behind them. If your accuracy stinks, buying a new gun probably won't help any.

Quote:
Onboard safety mechanisms due to public display
By this, do you mean, visible while in the holster? This one is going to be a 1911 to someone who knows what they're looking at. To someone who does not, that cocked hammer is not going to seem safe. At the same time, some people see Glock and think "safe". Some people see Glock and think "ND waiting to happen." I see Glock and think "That's a Glock".

Quote:
A 1911 may give the user time to neutralize the threat.
That is not a theory I would invest in at all. Instead of choosing the firearm because of this factor, I would choose the holster, and the amount of time practicing firearm retention.

Quote:
A Glock with a standard Glock trigger seems high risk if handled by less than dedicated people.A long history of Law enforcement disasters and AD's validate this fact.
The only guns that are more dangerous than others are the ones that have a serious reputation for malfunctioning and injuring innocent parties. Every firearm is "high risk". The only thing that makes a firearm a greater risk than another is the operator. Follow the safety rules and you won't have problems. The only problem with Glock's trigger is that my index finger doesn't like it. There are more reported cases of LE disasters with Glocks because of two reasons. When a LEO has a ND, everyone knows about it, and Glocks are more popular, especially with LE. The absence of a "safety" doesn't make a Glock more dangerous. What makes any situation "higher risk" is when people assume that a small piece of metal the flip up or down or side to side makes that gun safe. No gun is safe.

Quote:
Accuracy? The steel to steel contact on a quality 1911 puts it in a different league than the glock.Groups for my Springfield can be one half as small as my big Glocks.!!
If it's important to you, spend more time with your Glocks.
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Last edited by scorpion_tyr; May 9, 2009 at 10:00 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old May 9, 2009, 11:32 PM   #4
guruatbol
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Another 1911 vs Glock debate.

ALL AD/NDs BY GLOCKS HAVE BEEN THE RESULT OF SOMEONE HAVING THEIR TRIGGER FINGER ON THE TRIGGER WHEN IT SHOULD NOT OF BEEN!!!!! PERIOD!!!

OK, that being said, I have both and shoot both. They both have their advantages and disadvantages. I seem to be repeating myself again.

Use the search and you will find many recent threads that address this. If I was a moderator I would lock this thread or redirect this one to one of those.

Sorry for the rant, but it seems this forum likes to post the same questions or observations worded differently over and over.

Mel gets off his soap box now.....

Mel
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Old May 9, 2009, 11:39 PM   #5
Hunley
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Sounds like you already have your mind made up on your personal preference...

Reliability
I give it to the Glock. You will have to pay good money to find a 1911 that will handle ANY type of round you put in it. A lot of 1911s just don't like defensive rounds without having modifications made to them. Even then, they may not like specific types of HPs. My 1911 feed Golden Sabers and Hornady XTPs fine, but chokes on Federal HSTs and Speer GDHPs. I've put all of them through my Glocks. No problems.

Knockdown Power
Unless you empty the gun and are forced to beat someone with your gun, does it really matter?

Control and Follow-Ups
This will vary depending on how much you practice with it. Some people think that polymer pistols lack the weight to be accurate, but it just takes practice. You can get there in time.

Accuracy
Again, practice. Aside from that, you have to go with something that feels good in your hands. This varies greatly from person to person. No two peoples' hands are alike, so making a sweeping statement about either platform is useless. That said, they are both accurate platforms in the right hands.

Onboard Safety
I'll catch flack for it, but I give it to the Glock.
Why? Simple. You don't have a false sense of security. Yes, a 1911's safety is near perfect BUT, it is not fool-proof. Your best safety is to keep your finger off the trigger.

PRICE
Money isn't an issue for some people. However, it is for most. That being said, you won't find a more reliable, accurate, ready to use right out of the box gun for the money than a Glock. You may find something better in one category or the other, but not for the price.

Concealment
Depends on the model Glock you are referring to. Overall though, you have fewer pieces sticking out to get caught on clothing. This is especially true if carrying cocked and locked. Yes, a 1911 is slim. But if you have to draw it from an IWB holster and the hammer gets caught on your shirt, you could be up the proverbial creek.

Quote:
Any such tactical gun is on public display and at real risk for seizure and to be turned on the user with fatal results. A Glock carried in most open holsters just screams "shoot me" and I would be very anxious about that possibility.
Unless you are confined to a nylon or leather holster for OCing, I don't see what the problem is. You can find a good serpa or kydex holster to fix that problem.

Besides, if someone takes your gun from your holster, you have bigger things to worry about than if they know how to operate it. Someone would have to be pretty ballsy (or stupid...) to come and try to take a gun from someone carrying a gun!
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Old May 9, 2009, 11:54 PM   #6
MrNiceGuy
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It's a moot point

Both are inferior to a good revolver...... this thread is just an argument to figure out last place....

glocks are plastic and 1911's are finicky and antiquated status symbols, neither are worth the materials they are made of
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Old May 10, 2009, 06:26 PM   #7
Venom1956
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Your post really has no point at all I'm sorry. what is the point including Tactical in you post? seriously... I really don't want to get into it with you but this is pointless.
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Old May 10, 2009, 06:30 PM   #8
kraigwy
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Depends on the person and his/her likes and dislikes. Personaly I'd take a 1911a1 if was to go back in the military and could take any pistol I choose. Having said that if I was to go back into LE. my choice would still be a revolver (Model 28 Smith).

Since the change of me ever being in either one of those positions again is slim to none, I'll stick to my 642 pocket pistol and Shoot my 1911s for fun and targets.
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Old May 10, 2009, 06:43 PM   #9
txstang84
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...another one? Are you serious? Regardless of what your purpose for carry, the question as to which firearm you carry rests solely with what you're good at...

If you're good with a wheelgun-good
If you're good with a Glock [insert model number here]
If you're good with an XD-brilliant!
If you're good with a 1911 go for it.

If you're not good with any of the above, do searches...look at the selections for yourself, fire them a few hundred times-sign yourself up for IDPA, USPSA, or IPSC-get good with something.



...you pot-stirrer guy you
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Old May 11, 2009, 09:53 AM   #10
ECHOONE
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Tactically 1911 over a Glock for a tactical pistol !!!!!l
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Old May 11, 2009, 10:00 AM   #11
5whiskey
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How many times will a thread asking roughly the same question come up?

"1911 vs. Glock"

"tactical glock or tactical 1911"

"SF still uses 1911s"

"How did those crappy old 1911s do it during WWII"

"IS Glock the best pistol"

"John Moses Browning or Gaston Glock"

etc. etc... Will enough ever be enough?
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Old May 11, 2009, 10:24 AM   #12
txstang84
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...probably not

There will always be people asking the same old worn out questions...keep stirring the pot till you get an answer you like instead of making a decision based on one's own criteria.
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Old May 11, 2009, 11:51 AM   #13
guruatbol
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+1 Here!

Search is your friend.....

Mel
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Old May 11, 2009, 11:53 AM   #14
Gregory Gauvin
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I view the glock as a defensive pistol while the 1911 as an offensive pistol.

A good defense is a good offense.

The glock is great if concealed. Draw and fire. Simple and works. The element of surprise works in its favor. As soon as you draw, fire. In a police situation, as mentioned above, and while holding the pistol on your target and giving the suspect time to re-decide, you may be more prone to getting into a retention situation, or merely if you open carry. Not good.

The 1911 does work exceptional as a defense pistol as well, but I view it more as an offensive pistol because of the single action for more accurate, distance shots, and the fact it has a manual safety which will allow you to be on the move, pistol in hand. I would be less worried running and negotiating obstacles with a 1911 than a glock. Although you should never put your finger in the trigger guard until ready to fire, in a life death situation, with the safety on, you can put your finger in the trigger guard of a 1911 to establish a dire, strong grip on the weapon if you need to pistol whip somebody, or if you accidentally put your finger in the trigger guard while jumping a fence for cover, etc. Should a suspect take your weapon from you, and the safety IS on, it may safe your life. Lastly, when the pistol is on safe, the slide is locked so there is no chance the slide can be bumped rearwards and go out of battery or cause a jam while on the move or while holstering.
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Old May 11, 2009, 12:23 PM   #15
Venom1956
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But Seriously what the hell is tactical carry? could someone please enlighten me? I found this really entertaining... Is it running around in some Paramilitary clothes with enough extra mags and body armor looking for trouble or a complete idiot? the word tactical needs to DIE in describing most guns.

But i would assume a "tactical" carry gun would be something along the lines of a PPK or LCP or a snubbie .38 because they are a smaller easily concealable gun to conform with the "Tactics" of CONCEALING IT.
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Old May 11, 2009, 12:32 PM   #16
GeauxTide
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1911
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Old May 11, 2009, 12:52 PM   #17
Greg with a Glock®
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Guess what I'd choose?
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Old May 11, 2009, 12:53 PM   #18
CzCasull
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Tactically.. hmm

Well I would have to say it depends on what your tactics are, or what scenarios your job or life places you in.
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