The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 6, 2009, 04:33 PM   #1
Senator Vitaman
Member
 
Join Date: May 2, 2009
Posts: 37
new bill could shut down the internet

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...rnet-freedoms/

Quote:
The days of an open, largely unregulated Internet may soon come to an end.

A bill making its way through Congress proposes to give the U.S. government authority over all networks considered part of the nation's critical infrastructure. Under the proposed Cybersecurity Act of 2009, the president would have the authority to shut down Internet traffic to protect national security.

The government also would have access to digital data from a vast array of industries including banking, telecommunications and energy. A second bill, meanwhile, would create a national cybersecurity adviser -- commonly referred to as the cybersecurity czar -- within the White House to coordinate strategy with a wide range of federal agencies involved.
I just heard this on another forum. I don't think this bill is a good idea.
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-dQfb8WQvo This is scary stuff, tell congress no cutting off care.
Senator Vitaman is offline  
Old May 6, 2009, 04:36 PM   #2
NavyLT
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 25, 2006
Location: Oak Harbor, WA
Posts: 1,719
It's an Obama conspiracy to stop internet sales of firearms, ammunition and firearms related materials. Hurry up and place your orders now!
NavyLT is offline  
Old May 6, 2009, 04:42 PM   #3
JWT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 16, 2007
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 3,098
Not to worry. Al Gore can invent another one to replace it.....
JWT is offline  
Old May 6, 2009, 04:48 PM   #4
okiefarmer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 381
I just skimmed through the .pdf file very quickly. On it's facade, and remember, this was written by lawyers, so if we can't translate lawyer-speak, we really have no clue what it is actually saying, it appears to indicate that they only have the publics best interests in mind. Right. I have yet to see a bill ever do exactly what it said it would do. If they really wanted to help the public on the internet, they would exert a little effort in getting rid of all the spammers, virus writers, and other vermin like that.

I think this bill bears watching.
okiefarmer is offline  
Old May 6, 2009, 04:52 PM   #5
azredhawk44
Junior member
 
Join Date: September 28, 2005
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 6,465
Not to derail the cynical witty banter above...

But...

Are internet forums and blog sites currently considered "the press" in the sense of the first amendment?

And, would access to the websites of more traditional paper-based newspapers be considered on par with actually having ready access to a news stand, unhindered by the federal government?

I simply fail to see how the internet can ever be a threat to national security. To those who abuse power and rile up the populace for grievous offenses, sure... but not to the actual security of the nation.

Much like the Patriot Act, I see much more ability to abuse power in this notion than I do in real defensive strategy.
azredhawk44 is offline  
Old May 6, 2009, 04:57 PM   #6
rjrivero
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2008
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 1,348
The Obama is seriously Power Drunk.......Marxism is near.
rjrivero is offline  
Old May 6, 2009, 04:58 PM   #7
alloy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 11, 2008
Posts: 1,931
Surely we, as a people...can nationalize this evil in the era of the new accounting, and yes...sacrifices will be required from us all, but as a people...we can dig deeper and provide the comprehensive security our children demand, safely seeing our nation's way into the new progressive future of all our hopes and dreams where not only the wealthy, but also the impoverished...are protected and rightly entitled...to the vision of a nation of one mind, and a more unified, productive purpose.



Firearm rights could suffer from this i guess somehow.
__________________
Quote:
The uncomfortable question common to all who have had revolutionary changes imposed on them: are we now to accept what was done to us just because it was done?
Angelo Codevilla

Last edited by alloy; May 6, 2009 at 05:55 PM. Reason: Got off prompter for a second.
alloy is offline  
Old May 6, 2009, 05:11 PM   #8
comn-cents
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2008
Location: Pac.N.W.
Posts: 1,804
WOW here the Big 0 goes again, sticking his hands into everything.
__________________
Be Smarter Than A Bore-Snake!
comn-cents is offline  
Old May 6, 2009, 08:12 PM   #9
Tom Servo
Staff
 
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 10,183
Quote:
I simply fail to see how the internet can ever be a threat to national security.
The internet (properly used) can provide a commuication medium that is anonymous, worldwide, instantaneous and above all, well-encrypted (PGP was litigated as a 2nd Amendment issue, if you'll recall). IF things got Orwellian, organizing resistance would be much more feasible and safe.

I read S. 773 when it came out. Section 18 has this well-hidden tidbit:

Quote:
(2) [the President] may declare a cybersecurity emergency and order the limitation or shutdown of Internet traffic to and from any compromised Federal Government or United States critical infrastructure information system or network;

(…)

(6) may order the disconnection of any Federal Government or United States critical infrastructure information systems or networks in the interest of national security;
That's what everyone's got their panties in a wad about. Who gets to determine what constitutes "critical infrastructure?" Could it be an ISP with virus problems?

In any case, I've spoken with several legislators about it. One responded, "it's a load of crap," while every other one vowed to see it gutted before it reached the floor.

Now, there IS a concern for hardening and protecting our government networks, and I'd support legislation for that. We just need to watch for the little things they slip in there.
__________________
In the depth of winter I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer.
--Albert Camus
Tom Servo is offline  
Old May 7, 2009, 07:07 AM   #10
Kreyzhorse
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 12, 2006
Location: NKY
Posts: 11,472
Quote:
It's an Obama conspiracy to stop internet sales of firearms, ammunition and firearms related materials. Hurry up and place your orders now!
- pretty funny.
__________________
"He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson
Kreyzhorse is offline  
Old May 7, 2009, 07:09 AM   #11
kayakersteve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 17, 2007
Location: Western NY
Posts: 922
What's this got to do with guns???

Nothing - Wrong forum.
__________________
See Ya!
kayakersteve is offline  
Old May 7, 2009, 07:17 AM   #12
polymerius
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 1, 2009
Posts: 3
....so you mean, all the hippies could use the internet to crash REPUBLICAN CONVENTIONS - but, patriots cannot to communicate...??!@#.....very funny.
polymerius is offline  
Old May 7, 2009, 11:18 AM   #13
OuTcAsT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2006
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 1,169
Quote:
What's this got to do with guns ??? Nothing - Wrong forum
You are correct, but it does tie in to our first amendment rights.

From the L&CR forum rules;

Quote:
Discussions in this forum will be centered upon legal issues as they relate to the 2nd Amendment and other Civil Rights. Constitutional law (which would encompass separation of powers, the impairment of contracts clause, the full faith and credit clause, etc., as well as the Bill of Rights) will also be on topic.

Lighten up Francis
__________________
WITHOUT Freedom of Thought, there can be no such Thing as Wisdom; and no such Thing as public Liberty, without Freedom of Speech. Silence Dogood

Does not morality imply the last clear chance? - WildAlaska -
OuTcAsT is offline  
Old May 7, 2009, 11:26 AM   #14
kayakersteve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 17, 2007
Location: Western NY
Posts: 922
Lighten up Francis

Outcaster - Lighten up Francis yourself!!
__________________
See Ya!
kayakersteve is offline  
Old May 7, 2009, 11:54 AM   #15
madmo44mag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 29, 2008
Location: Ft.Worth, Texas
Posts: 1,016
This is the new world order.
Our socialist leader must disarm us and then limit our ability to think for ourselves.
We must not gather to discuss any topic he feels can be a treat to his power.
Welcome to the United Socialist States of America.

OVER MY DEAD BODY!
__________________
Texas - Not just a state but an attitude!
For monthly shooting events in DFW visit http://www.meetup.com/TexasGunOwner-DFW
madmo44mag is offline  
Old May 7, 2009, 11:57 AM   #16
Inspector3711
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2008
Location: Puget Sound Washington
Posts: 1,546
Yet another Obamination. The guy seems to be skeered of the very folks who voted for him. First he thought they may go crazy with guns and now he's afraid they're trading bad Obama jokes on the web.
__________________
"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." The Dalai Llama (5/15/01, The Seattle Times)
"That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." George Orwell
Inspector3711 is offline  
Old May 7, 2009, 12:01 PM   #17
comn-cents
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2008
Location: Pac.N.W.
Posts: 1,804
Bad Obama joke?
__________________
Be Smarter Than A Bore-Snake!
comn-cents is offline  
Old May 7, 2009, 12:25 PM   #18
Dragon55
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2009
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 811
How?

Dumb question from an old f@^t but how exactly would this get accomplished??

Guys with bad suits and sunglasses walk into each local internet provider (in my case Charter) and have them to 'turn it off'?

I really don't understand the difficulty of this.

Or, is their some big @$$ switch somewhere someone can flip?

I know the Chinese do this some how but not clear how?

I gotta go to work ... but would appreciate an answer PM'd to me.
__________________
sailing ... A way to spend lots of money and go real S L O W

Last edited by Dragon55; May 7, 2009 at 12:39 PM. Reason: request for PM answer
Dragon55 is offline  
Old May 7, 2009, 12:52 PM   #19
Yellowfin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2007
Location: West Upstate NY
Posts: 2,303
Something tells me this is about political dissent.
__________________
Students for Concealed Carry on Campus http://www.concealedcampus.org
New York gun owners unite! Join now! http://www.nyshooters.net
May Issue is the new Separate but Equal.
Yellowfin is offline  
Old May 7, 2009, 12:58 PM   #20
ftd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 11, 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 109
Alloy,
Are you waxing elegantly or....something else? I'm not understanding your post.
ftd is offline  
Old May 7, 2009, 01:03 PM   #21
ZeSpectre
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 4, 2007
Location: Shenandoah Valley
Posts: 3,276
Quote:
Under the proposed Cybersecurity Act of 2009, the president would have the authority to shut down Internet traffic to protect national security.
somehow that seems like "the patient is ill, lets shoot him so he doesn't get worse".
ZeSpectre is offline  
Old May 7, 2009, 01:11 PM   #22
csmsss
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2008
Location: Orange, TX
Posts: 2,986
Quote:
I really don't understand the difficulty of this.
It's really not that hard. All internet traffic gets where it's going by means of DNS servers. There are exactly 13 of these "root" name servers which provide DNS for the entire internet, and all of them live in the U.S. of A. Shut them down, and you can basically shut the internet down. Yes, there are name servers that will provide "some" service when the root servers are down, but will not be updated with any new or changed DNS names, and will be quickly overwhelmed with traffic. This is primarily because the caching of names/IP addresses these remote name servers perform is generally very poorly executed.

Even if DNS root servers physically lived outside of the U.S., Obama, at least under the terms of this proposed legislation, could order a shutdown of all communications into or outside of the U.S. and could easily isolate us should he so choose.
csmsss is offline  
Old May 7, 2009, 02:10 PM   #23
pax
Staff
 
Join Date: May 16, 2000
Location: Washington state
Posts: 6,917
If you're seriously worried about this, support the work and follow the news from the Electronic Freedom Foundation. That organization is well worth watching, for those concerned about modern technology and ancient freedoms.

pax
__________________
Kathy Jackson
My personal website: Cornered Cat
pax is offline  
Old May 7, 2009, 03:56 PM   #24
CortJestir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 7, 2008
Location: Southern CT
Posts: 1,406
Funny...wonder what the reaction would be if this were proposed between, say, 9/12/01 and 1/19/09.

I'm just sayin'...

And yes, join, support and donate to the EFF if you care about your online privacy and individual rights.
__________________
"They have men amongst them who know very well what they are about..."
- Lord Hugh Percy, on the events of April 19, 1775
Do you know what you're about? Find out at an Appleseed near you.
CortJestir is offline  
Old May 7, 2009, 05:25 PM   #25
#18indycolts
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2006
Location: Indpls
Posts: 1,159
Quote:
It's an Obama conspiracy to stop internet sales of firearms, ammunition and firearms related materials. Hurry up and place your orders now!


#18indycolts is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12537 seconds with 7 queries