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Old May 3, 2009, 12:27 AM   #1
Micahweeks
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FNP vs. Glock

First of all this is not a thread to debate which of these fine handguns is better. Both have their place, and it is pointless to try and say that either is better than the other in every way. So, let's just stop that silliness right now. What this thread IS about is my experience with the FNP 40 and the Glock 22 side by side at the range. I will detail my experience and pose a couple of questions that I would like to hear everyone weigh in on.

First, I have a lot of experience with the Glock 22. It is a terrific firearm. I am really thinking hard about buying the new RTF. I started shooting the G22 well before the FNP 40 was on the market. So, don't think that my statements below are due to a lack of experience.

1. Despite having put thousands upon thousands of rounds through various G22s, I was able to shoot more accurately with the FNP 40. At 25 yards I almost consistently shot 1 inch smaller groups with the FNP. I am not sure if this is due to the different barrel rifling or the browning action or what. I just know that I consistently, on every shot, hit closer to my mark with the FNP. Maybe it's the different grip angle, although the Glock angle is more than comfortable to me.

2. The FNP was just as reliable as any Glock I have fired. In my range trip, I put between 1300 and 1500 rounds through the FNP with absolutely no hiccups. The ammo fired was a variety of horrible quality range reloads, WWB, and a few boxes of Federal Hydrashock. So, I am convinced that the reliability is on par with Glock.

3. The FNP feels lighter to me. This could be because it holds one less round than the Glock. I'm not sure. I did not go look up the unloaded weights of the pistols before writing this. It could be that the pistol actually weighs more than the Glock and just feels lighter because of the way the weight is dispersed. But, regardless, it feels lighter and would more likely get more carry time with me.

4. The FNP was easier to disassemble. It took down like a SIG. Just unload, rack, flip the lever, and rack forward. Voila. The Glock take down is just as simple in theory, but the little take down notches are sometimes hard for me to pull down after shooting a while. I have carpal tunnel. Cleaning is just as easy as the Glock.

So, those are my observations. DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A THREAD ABOUT WHICH IS BETTER! That is not the point. Here are the questions that came to my mind after this experience.

1. If the pistol is just as reliable as Glock and just as if not more accurate, then why are pistol accessory manufacturers not coming out with more accessories for it?

The answer for this, I'll bet, is probably that the pistol just is not popular enough to warrant making a bunch of accessories. So, here's my next question.

2. Why has this pistol not gained more popularity? They are giving away free holsters with each purchase! Each one comes with THREE mags and a mag carrier, and they are on par with and cheaper sometimes than Glocks. These pistols strike me as being a poor man's SIG (somewhat).

Ok, now that everyone knows what I am wondering, let the flames from the Glock lovers begin and the real opinions of the intelligent people commence.
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Old May 3, 2009, 01:11 AM   #2
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Well, the FNP has been around for, what, 5 years? The Glock around 20? Lots of 'smiths have had time to address the, uh, shortcomings.

The manual of arms for the Glock is much simpler making them more popular for fast training of service personnel?

Glock has an incredible marketing and cult-like following - police arms, gang-banger arms, mean-looking black pistol, whatever ...everyone knows what a "Glock" is.

The FNP may also be confused with the Browning Pro 9 - is it cocked and locked or decocked and what do I need to do with this thing before I reholster? The Glock, you just keep your finger off the trigger and reholster.

I think the FNP is more like a Sig than a Glock.

Just random thoughts
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Old May 3, 2009, 01:22 AM   #3
Micahweeks
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Interesting

Hmm... do raise two things I had not considered. The first is the manual of arms. Even I know how to do some work on Glock pistols. The second is the safety/decocker. I guess I just figure that if the decocker or safety confuse or intimidate a shooter, then they should ignore them. Heck, I decocked the FNP several times at the range the same way I decock my revolvers. I am just so used to doing it that way that I forgot the little lever was even there. Good thoughts!

I am not sure that marketing is a major factor. It seems that FNP is being much more aggressive with their marketing of the FNP than their past civilian products. I have not seen much of anything from Glock concerning their newest products. I did not even hear about the RTF until I saw one at the range. Maybe it is just the websites and magazines I have been reading. You may be right about the marketing, though.
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Old May 3, 2009, 07:51 AM   #4
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I do not like the Glock, but it is the best gun I have owned and the one I trust most. Followed closely by my 1911's. The FN has my interest however. I've been thinking about giving one a try.
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Old May 3, 2009, 08:27 AM   #5
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I own a Glock 22 and also a FNP-9. As has been said both Glock and FN are very fine guns.

If I had to chose which one I like shooting the most I'd have to say the FN. It just fits my hand better and I'm more accurate with it. I also find it a bit easier to strip for cleaning - not that the Glock is difficult.

Demand drives manufactures to make and market accessories for a specific gun. Glock has a very large base of 'fans' and thus a large number of accessories are available. FNP isn't that popular and manufactures probably don't have the incentive to design, make, and sell as many accessories for it.
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Old May 3, 2009, 09:58 AM   #6
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i own three glocks, a 4th is possibly in the near future. it's ease of use, point, pull and it goes bang, ease of disassembly (it's silly easy to disassemble) and the reputation that it has developed over 20+ years of being in this country have given glocks a huge advantage over many other fine firearms. they just have that stigma about them, that "they just won't fail no matter what so i gotta have one". regardless of their problems, the shear fact is that so many are in use, have been in use, and until the internet, very few people even knew there were issues with the guns, that glocks are simply the favored firearm.


all that said, i really, really like the feel of the FN 45. i want to add one to the stable very badly, and i will. i've even considered buying one for duty use, but fn doesn't have something that glock does. a compact version that fullsize version mags will fit into. my duty glock is a 21sf, my BUG is a 30sf. i wear it in a g&g bootlock ankle holster and i enjoy the fact that if my primary goes down, my BUG isn't limited to whateve is in it's mag only. even if i switch depatments where the g22 is issued, i can buy a BUG, g27, that will use the g22 mags. if fn, springfield or s&w offered that with thier respective lines, i would definitely be giving those weapons way more consideration.

but it goes back to the fact that fn is relatively new to the civilian market, compared to the glock. i love the way the fn feels, looks and what it comes with. fn has a lot going for it in our military, and that speaks volumes to me. i believe it to be a fine gun by all reviews, it's just got a lot of catching up to do with the way more established glock.
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Old May 3, 2009, 12:16 PM   #7
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Compact FNP 45!!!

Oooh! A compact FNP 45 that will take full-size mags? That sounds nice! You're right. That would certainly be a feather in their cap. Heck, it might be the top duty/BUG combo pick on my list! Alright... I'm gonna start praying... real hard.
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Old May 3, 2009, 12:32 PM   #8
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Quote:
and it is pointless to try and say that either is better than the other in every way. So, let's just stop that silliness right now.

Quote:
Ok, now that everyone knows what I am wondering, let the flames from the Glock lovers begin and the real opinions of the intelligent people commence.

Quite a contradiction within the same post.
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Old May 3, 2009, 02:36 PM   #9
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"2. Why has this pistol not gained more popularity?"

I don't know, I've been doing my part recently to promote it.

It's only been 3 weeks, but I really like my FNP-45 USG (the model with a safety) and it is definitely an accurate pistol. The more I shoot it, the more I think it's just the right size for my hands. Everything else is starting to feel undersized, even the 1911s and especially the Rohrbaugh.

I think I'll buy some night sights when they become available for the 45.

FWIW, the free holster/mag pouch giveaway only included the 9 and 40.

John
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Old May 3, 2009, 02:49 PM   #10
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Contradiction?

Microgunner, there is no contradiction. I merely stated that I actually had observed a number of advantages that the FNP I fired had over the glock. I acknowledge that I do not believe the FNP to be a superior pistol and that I think that trying to definitively say that one is better than the other is just silly. My statement about letting the flames from Glock lovers begin is made from experience. I am used to having rabid Glock fans berate me for saying that something other than a Glock might just rival there precious G-whatever. That's why I expected to have a number of Glock fans insulting me by now for saying that the FNP I fired actually had a couple of things going for it over Glock. I still believe that Glock is a terrific pistol. In terms of being rugged, I believe the Glock has the advantage. In capacity, Glock gets it. I feel the pistols are equal. But, you know how some folks can be...

"Don't tred on my G23 with tritium night sights and tac3 light and a built in microwave emitter!!! It's perfection!!!"
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Old May 3, 2009, 04:16 PM   #11
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I looked at a full-sized Glock .45. The mag capacity was only 13 compared to the FNP-45's 15 and they still haven't fixed the grip angle.
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Old May 3, 2009, 04:32 PM   #12
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It seems that the three most highly regarded polymer pistols are the Glock, The XD line and the M&P.

Sig Pro seems to fall here.

The Beretta Px4 and the Ruger SRL9 and the FN9/40 are just not very popular and in a crowded field it will be tough to get much traction.

They are likely to do a little better on the 45ACP as that caliber is hard to pack the 15 rounds of ammo without making it supper fat. The XD did it by making the grip extra long.

I picked up several FN's and the feel underwelmed me, kind of felt like a toy. I certainly have a great deal of respect for the Belgian company and wish them well and would like to shoot one, one day, but I will not be adding an FN9 to my collection anytime soon. Well if they had an all Belgian made one maybe
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Old May 23, 2009, 08:35 AM   #13
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I joined this forum just because of this thread. I've been trying to research the FNP and so have been looking for testimonials and torture tests online... without much luck. Saw this thread, and was amazed by some of the non sequiturs drawn by the thread starter.

Quote:
1. Despite having put thousands upon thousands of rounds through various G22s, I was able to shoot more accurately with the FNP 40. At 25 yards I almost consistently shot 1 inch smaller groups with the FNP. I am not sure if this is due to the different barrel rifling or the browning action or what. I just know that I consistently, on every shot, hit closer to my mark with the FNP. Maybe it's the different grip angle, although the Glock angle is more than comfortable to me.
Chalk this up to user headspace and timing, unless your groups at twenty-five yards were the size of a fist. Maybe you're an extremely talented marksman and I'm wrong here, but the vast majority of shooters will never shoot to the potential (for accuracy) of their weapon.

Quote:
2. The FNP was just as reliable as any Glock I have fired. In my range trip, I put between 1300 and 1500 rounds through the FNP with absolutely no hiccups. The ammo fired was a variety of horrible quality range reloads, WWB, and a few boxes of Federal Hydrashock. So, I am convinced that the reliability is on par with Glock.
1500 rounds on the range =! Glock reliability. Drag your FNP behind your truck down a gravel road for a few miles and toss it out of an airplane. If it still functions without protest, you're getting close.

Quote:
3. The FNP feels lighter to me. This could be because it holds one less round than the Glock. I'm not sure. I did not go look up the unloaded weights of the pistols before writing this. It could be that the pistol actually weighs more than the Glock and just feels lighter because of the way the weight is dispersed. But, regardless, it feels lighter and would more likely get more carry time with me.
The FNP weighs a quarter-pound more than the Glock.

Quote:
4. The FNP was easier to disassemble. It took down like a SIG. Just unload, rack, flip the lever, and rack forward. Voila. The Glock take down is just as simple in theory, but the little take down notches are sometimes hard for me to pull down after shooting a while. I have carpal tunnel. Cleaning is just as easy as the Glock.
What you described is a field strip. Have you taken both weapons apart completely? Disassembled the slide? You can turn a Glock into a pile of parts basically with just a 9/32 punch as far as I know. What's required to do the same to the FNP?

Quote:
1. If the pistol is just as reliable as Glock and just as if not more accurate, then why are pistol accessory manufacturers not coming out with more accessories for it?
(The condition here is not in evidence as having been met.)

Quote:
2. Why has this pistol not gained more popularity? They are giving away free holsters with each purchase! Each one comes with THREE mags and a mag carrier, and they are on par with and cheaper sometimes than Glocks. These pistols strike me as being a poor man's SIG (somewhat).
I doubt the FNP will ever find itself on par with Glock in terms of popularity with law enforcement. Your whopping 1500 fair-weather rounds on the range notwithstanding, the FNP is likely nowhere near as rugged and durable as the Glock. For range day, and for most competition shooting, and probably for short-sighted CCWers, that isn't important. For guys who go to work every day knowing they may be rolling around in the mud and have to count on that pistol to go BANG when they pull the trigger, it is. Glocks are proven in this area. The FNP is not, and by design, I suspect it will not be. It isn't a bad design per se, it's simply one that isn't optimized for resistance to harsh conditions. Now, since law enforcement applications vary so widely, and since Glocks have such a strong presence in the law enforcement community, it follows that Glock has built-in aftermarket support. That's just one reason.

Sales (to non-cops) are another. I read somewhere that the G19 is something like the most popular single manufacturer/model of pistol ever based on sales. (Consider how many manufacturers make 1911s and it makes sense that the G19 would trump it, despite 1911 popularity.) Aftermarket support tends to follow product popularity, which is why you can buy any modification or accessory you could dream up for a Honda Civic. Modularity helps, too. Glock makes something like two dozen different models, not counting compensated counterparts. Things like holsters and sights and to some extent magazines are largely (though not universally, of course) interchangeable.

To end on an uncontestable note, the Glock has been selling for twenty-odd years. The FNP is all of three years old. Maybe after decades of hard work and solid performance, the comparison won't be so one-sided.


Incidentally, I am a Glock guy for a variety of reasons, but I really want to like the FNP. A good friend of mine decided to entrust his life to one. He's like family, so my research on the FNP line is intended to convince me that he's going to be just fine. I had hoped to find solid, credible, thorough, well-executed torture tests, and I'm kinda coming up empty-handed. I am glad that your pistol made it through 1500 range rounds though.
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Old May 23, 2009, 08:24 PM   #14
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I've had both Glocks and FNPs, for some reason I'm able to shoot the FNP a little better than the Glock, probably because the grip angle and size feel a little better than the Glock but truly, I like them both.

I guess if I were going to drag one behind a truck and drop it out of an airplane I'd give the edge to Glock because of their time tested design.
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Old May 23, 2009, 08:37 PM   #15
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"the FNP is likely nowhere near as rugged and durable as the Glock. "

Spoken like a true fanboy. Likely nowhere near? Based on what facts?

"Drag your FNP behind your truck down a gravel road for a few miles and toss it out of an airplane."

Have you ever done this to any firearm? Why would you? Great idea. Sheesh.

Come on, FN has been making guns, fine guns, since 1899.
Glock has been in the gun business since 1980.

70% of U.S. military small arms in use were made by... wait for it ... FN.

www.fnhusa.com/mil/about.asp

Glocks are good guns, but so are many others.

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Old May 23, 2009, 09:45 PM   #16
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Every this that vs Glock thread will always end up in a debate. Please stop.
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Old May 23, 2009, 10:07 PM   #17
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FN

Johnbt is correct. FN has never made an inferior firearm. If you like Glocks, fine. That's not the point. The Browning and FN 9mm pistols are very good, which if I recall was the point of the original post.
My sons like Glocks, I like the visible hammer and the DA/SA mechanism of the FN. We don't argue about it.
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Old May 23, 2009, 10:11 PM   #18
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In my experience, it's kinda hard to go wrong with either.
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Old May 25, 2009, 12:17 AM   #19
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FN and Glock= Reliable

Not to be too technical, by the FNP 40 is an extremely smooth shooter and goes !BLAM! every time. The Glock 19 is also extremely reliable and always goes !BLAM! when one squeezes the trigger. Both pistols have merit and are priced competitively. I mean, can you really disparage either one? The answer is no.
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Old May 25, 2009, 08:45 AM   #20
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Spoken like a true fanboy. Likely nowhere near? Based on what facts?
Torture tests (re: Glock) or a lack thereof (FNP), primarily. Inherent in the FNP design, physical abuse will have more of an effect on the functionality of the pistol - exposed mechanisms rather than containing everything in a tenifer-finished slide is an example of this.

Quote:
Have you ever done this to any firearm? Why would you? Great idea. Sheesh.
Intentionally? No, I wouldn't. Does it speak to the pistol's durability in other dynamic situations though? Absolutely it does. Consider that the Glock can take tremendous impact and still survive. (As in a thousands-of-feet fall at terminal velocity.) Can the FNP? Who knows? I'd be surprised. Things get rough, you're trying to reload, you lose track of your pistol for a second and it skitters or gets kicked across a gravel parking lot into the mud, action open. Is it going to go BANG when you pick it up, release the slide, and pull the trigger? Or will you need to detail clean it before you can even get into battery? These tests demonstrate that the Glock's a safe bet here. For lack of evidence regarding the FNP, and the damning evidence provided by pistols which reflect the same system/design, maybe not so much.

The FNP has been in production since 2006. Pointing to FNH's entire history isn't really an honest thing to do. I'm sure they make some very good stuff. New designs warrant their own tests. Hey, S&W was founded in something like 1852 and for a long time, their wheelguns were the gold standard. Might as well just assume that the Sigma is another flawless execution, right?
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Old May 25, 2009, 09:26 AM   #21
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Incidentally, I am a Glock guy for a variety of reasons


Really? I couldn't tell. As noted both are good guns, the main difference being FN owners love there guns, and Glock owners are IN love with their guns
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Old May 25, 2009, 09:34 AM   #22
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good call Bionicrooster
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Old May 25, 2009, 11:07 AM   #23
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Quote:
Torture tests (re: Glock) or a lack thereof (FNP), primarily. Inherent in the FNP design, physical abuse will have more of an effect on the functionality of the pistol - exposed mechanisms rather than containing everything in a tenifer-finished slide is an example of this.
Perhaps I'm not smart enough to grasp what you are saying but I am a little confused about your post.

If I understand correctly, you say there have been no torture tests to determine the durability of the FN (I expect you've confirmed this with FN though I can't imagine the liability issues with producing a firearm without extensive testing but I am no expert)

The above not withstanding what I find confusing is that you say that the design of the FN makes it inherently less durable than a Glock. How are you able to determine this without torture tests?

Thanks
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Old May 25, 2009, 11:44 AM   #24
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"Consider that the Glock can take tremendous impact and still survive. (As in a thousands-of-feet fall at terminal velocity.)"

Okay, your pistol will survive the fall, but you won't. You'll just be a puddle on the landscape. So what's the point?

Or maybe you dropped your Glock out of a plane. Lot of good that'll do you if you need it and good luck finding it. So what's the point?

You know, Ruger salesmen used to toss the Speed/Security/Service-Six revolvers around ranges and even drive over them and they kept working. It's not like Glock invented durable guns.



Re: "tenifer-finished slide"
Actually, Tennifer is a metal treatment and not a finish coating. They treat the metal and then the slide is coated with something else.
FN uses Melonite, a similar salt nitriding process. My black FNP-45's slide is Melonite treated stainless that then receives a black coating.

External vs. internal parts? I refer you the 1911 and Browning HP. Both models have seen many more decades of serious use than any Glock and managed quite nicely by all accounts.

So, sales of the FNP-45 appear to be on a real roll now. The primary reason seems to me to be that folks appreciate the safety in addition to the decocker vs. the previous decocker-only. Be that as it may, I'd be happy with mine if it was the only one ever made. I was buying a pistol, not joining a club.

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Old May 25, 2009, 08:12 PM   #25
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40

I joined this forum just because of this thread. I've been trying to research the FNP and so have been looking for testimonials and torture tests online... without much luck. Saw this thread, and was amazed by some of the non sequiturs drawn by the thread starter.


Quote:
1. Despite having put thousands upon thousands of rounds through various G22s, I was able to shoot more accurately with the FNP 40. At 25 yards I almost consistently shot 1 inch smaller groups with the FNP. I am not sure if this is due to the different barrel rifling or the browning action or what. I just know that I consistently, on every shot, hit closer to my mark with the FNP. Maybe it's the different grip angle, although the Glock angle is more than comfortable to me.

Chalk this up to user headspace and timing, unless your groups at twenty-five yards were the size of a fist. Maybe you're an extremely talented marksman and I'm wrong here, but the vast majority of shooters will never shoot to the potential (for accuracy) of their weapon.


-Sooo if the gun has potential or a function beyond what I am likely to need it doesn't matter? I'll remember that next time I buy a car that can go faster then 55mph. "you can shoot that gun better then the one I like but I'm a bad shot so accuracy dosen't count"

Quote:
2. The FNP was just as reliable as any Glock I have fired. In my range trip, I put between 1300 and 1500 rounds through the FNP with absolutely no hiccups. The ammo fired was a variety of horrible quality range reloads, WWB, and a few boxes of Federal Hydrashock. So, I am convinced that the reliability is on par with Glock.

1500 rounds on the range =! Glock reliability. Drag your FNP behind your truck down a gravel road for a few miles and toss it out of an airplane. If it still functions without protest, you're getting close.

-I had a bad round explode in my FNP45. Blew the mag apart and broke the decocker with only the slightest sting to my hand. NOPE you couldn't pay me to have that happen to a Glock while it's in my hand. I would love to see an actual test but I'll lay money that the FNP will take anything the Glock will.
Funny how this torture is beyond anything the user is likley to do just like the above super groups at 25Yards but somehow now it is important.


Quote:
3. The FNP feels lighter to me. This could be because it holds one less round than the Glock. I'm not sure. I did not go look up the unloaded weights of the pistols before writing this. It could be that the pistol actually weighs more than the Glock and just feels lighter because of the way the weight is dispersed. But, regardless, it feels lighter and would more likely get more carry time with me.

The FNP weighs a quarter-pound more than the Glock.

-as he admitted. Point being all that matters if how it feels. You can feed me McDonalds and 5 star food but if the McDs tastes better... it tastes better. A heavier gun that you shoot better beats a lighter one that you can't shoot as well every day.


Quote:
4. The FNP was easier to disassemble. It took down like a SIG. Just unload, rack, flip the lever, and rack forward. Voila. The Glock take down is just as simple in theory, but the little take down notches are sometimes hard for me to pull down after shooting a while. I have carpal tunnel. Cleaning is just as easy as the Glock.

What you described is a field strip. Have you taken both weapons apart completely? Disassembled the slide? You can turn a Glock into a pile of parts basically with just a 9/32 punch as far as I know. What's required to do the same to the FNP?

-The same thing.


Quote:
1. If the pistol is just as reliable as Glock and just as if not more accurate, then why are pistol accessory manufacturers not coming out with more accessories for it?

(The condition here is not in evidence as having been met.)

-I'm not sure what the FNP would really NEED past maybe a high vis type sight which they do sell. I think it is less of an issue of hwy so few accessories for the FNP then why so many for the Glock. WHat does it need? Sights? Holsters? ... nothing else on the gun needs improvement.


Quote:
2. Why has this pistol not gained more popularity? They are giving away free holsters with each purchase! Each one comes with THREE mags and a mag carrier, and they are on par with and cheaper sometimes than Glocks. These pistols strike me as being a poor man's SIG (somewhat).


-Err... they have. I had not even heard of them untill this year and now I have one my girl has one, I know of at least two others that plan to buy one and I see loads of posts from owners. On top of that I see them selling like hot cakes in stores and at shows.

I doubt the FNP will ever find itself on par with Glock in terms of popularity with law enforcement. Your whopping 1500 fair-weather rounds on the range notwithstanding, the FNP is likely nowhere near as rugged and durable as the Glock. For range day, and for most competition shooting, and probably for short-sighted CCWers, that isn't important. For guys who go to work every day knowing they may be rolling around in the mud and have to count on that pistol to go BANG when they pull the trigger, it is. Glocks are proven in this area. The FNP is not, and by design, I suspect it will not be. It isn't a bad design per se, it's simply one that isn't optimized for resistance to harsh conditions. Now, since law enforcement applications vary so widely, and since Glocks have such a strong presence in the law enforcement community, it follows that Glock has built-in aftermarket support. That's just one reason.

-I am going to hold off comment on this so you have time to gather some actual facts and edit that statement

Sales (to non-cops) are another. I read somewhere that the G19 is something like the most popular single manufacturer/model of pistol ever based on sales. (Consider how many manufacturers make 1911s and it makes sense that the G19 would trump it, despite 1911 popularity.) Aftermarket support tends to follow product popularity, which is why you can buy any modification or accessory you could dream up for a Honda Civic. Modularity helps, too. Glock makes something like two dozen different models, not counting compensated counterparts. Things like holsters and sights and to some extent magazines are largely (though not universally, of course) interchangeable.

-I think the civic comment brings up a good point. Glocks are like Honda civics in a way. They have gone beyond a tool and into the area of cultural icon whish is one of the reasons I do not own one. I think they shoot great but I am so sick of hearing blah blah my glock blah blah glock this blah glock that blah blah yo dis gangsta busted a cap in blah blah with his glock nine yo. Same reason why I can never own a Mustang

To end on an uncontestable note, the Glock has been selling for twenty-odd years. The FNP is all of three years old. Maybe after decades of hard work and solid performance, the comparison won't be so one-sided.


Incidentally, I am a Glock guy for a variety of reasons, but I really want to like the FNP. A good friend of mine decided to entrust his life to one. He's like family, so my research on the FNP line is intended to convince me that he's going to be just fine. I had hoped to find solid, credible, thorough, well-executed torture tests, and I'm kinda coming up empty-handed. I am glad that your pistol made it through 1500 range rounds though.

Last edited by EnoughGUN; May 25, 2009 at 08:43 PM.
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