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Old April 28, 2009, 04:37 PM   #1
PhoenixConflagration
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Support finger on trigger guard?

I saw someone at the range a while ago with the forefinger of their support hand around the front of the trigger guard when they fired. I tried it myself just for gits and shiggles and it seemed to control the recoil better. Is this an accepted grip style or is it the handgun equivalent of Happy Gilmore's golf swing?
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Old April 28, 2009, 06:45 PM   #2
David Armstrong
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Finger forward used to be extremely popular with competitive shooters, but it has fallen from favor as people have found it really doesn't help that much. But a number of folks still use it.
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Old April 28, 2009, 08:16 PM   #3
Deaf Smith
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PhoenixConflagration,

The problem with the finger on the forward part of the trigger guard is any pressure to one side or the other really messes up the groups. And if you put different amounts of backward pressure you will find it changes the recoil characteristics.

It takes a real steady person with exact finger placement and pressure to use it well. And that is why you don't see it used much (if at all.)
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Old April 28, 2009, 08:43 PM   #4
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"Support finger on trigger guard?"

As a general rule "no" for the reasons cited.
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Old April 28, 2009, 09:11 PM   #5
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It works for people who have big hands. For the rest of us, we have a stronger grip if we use all four fingers for weak hand grip. With finger on trigger guard, you only have three.


Put another way, a fist is the strongest grip. The more you open your hand by leaving off fingers, the less strong it is--strong hand or weak.

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Old April 28, 2009, 09:25 PM   #6
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And if you're like me and shoot revolvers as much as semi's it's a bad habit to develop........
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Old April 28, 2009, 10:45 PM   #7
Archie
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Well...

The support finger on trigger guard is the reason for squared off, checkered trigger guards.

I still use it and find it useful. I find it useful in both accuracy and recoil control. Obviously, others do not. Just for the tallybook, I shoot revolvers just as much if not more than autopistols.
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Old April 29, 2009, 04:44 AM   #8
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Thanks for the input. I think this is one of those personal preference things that bears further experimentation. If it works for me, I'll use it. If it doesn't, I won't. I'm always willing to try something different to see what works for me.

That's how I ended up with a Glock.
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Old April 29, 2009, 12:28 PM   #9
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As David said, it was very popular in the '70s and '80, but not now.

One advantage of that grip is that it gets the mass of your support hand higher on the gun. That's not quite enough to make up for the disadvantages.

Mas Ayoob has taught (don't know if he's still teaching it) using the same grip, but sliding the forefinger under the trigger guard and pulling it tight against the 2nd finger. He called it the "Ayoob wedge". I learned it from him and have been using it for many years. For some reason, it reduces those low shots when you've screwed up and mis-timed your response to recoil. Like the old grip, it gets the mass of the support hand higher and helps with getting back on target.

http://www.aware.org/arttruelaw/flinch.shtml
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Old April 29, 2009, 07:50 PM   #10
Nnobby45
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Quote:
I think this is one of those personal preference things that bears further experimentation. If it works for me, I'll use it. If it doesn't, I won't. I'm always willing to try something different to see what works for me.
I use it also and find that it cams the gun up making it harder to drop your shots low if you lose concentration on the front sight. I think that's essentially what you just said.

The finger on the front of the trigger guard technique may be a simple matter of needing big hands AND a squared trigger guard. Works fine for those folks. For me, I have to open up my hand (grip) and weaken my grip.

For some, with normal hands, the added 'what ever they get out of it' must make up for the weaker grip.

Nothing wrong with giving it a try to see for yourself. However, some guns have the squared trigger guard, some don't--that's just on SIG's I own. Might be good to use the same technique no matter what pistol you're shooting--of course, my philosophy isn't everyone's.
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Old April 30, 2009, 08:51 AM   #11
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A 'no no' for us

That's a "no-no" for us and you will be reprimanded on the line for it. With that being said.... if it works for you..... go for it. Personally, I see no advantage and two disadvantages. One, as previously stated, you tend to pull the pistol one way or another (at least that's what I've noticed from people doing it). Two, With that finger down on the grip, you have a much stronger grip with that support hand, allowing you to keep your strong hand a bit more loose as it should be.
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Old April 30, 2009, 04:09 PM   #12
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I shot a lot of IPSC in the 70's and 80's, and as mentioned, that grip first appeared then, and was the genesis of the squared (sometimes even hooked) checkered trigger guards.

There is one downside to the grip, in my mind, and that is repeatability. It wasn't uncommon to see the shooter "searching" for the right positioning of that forefinger. Not that big a deal in a match, but not so good in a defensive response. IMHO

-jb
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Old May 13, 2009, 04:57 AM   #13
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This grip is not very popular, and is not used by very many world class shooters. One exception is three-time IPSC world champion Eric Grauffel, so its not like the technique is entirely without merit. I say experiment with it, and if it works for you better than the fingers under technique go for it.

I think this technique might have some merit for sub-compacts like the Glock 27 because it would allow you more off-hand purchase on the gun, but I don't carry a sub-compact so I haven't tested this out on the range.

Good luck.
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Old May 13, 2009, 05:21 AM   #14
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I can see advantages & disadvantages

+1 wot Rantingredneck said, not a good habit to get into if you like your offhand trigger finger where it is, if you also shoot (big/any) revolvers . I can see that if someone in having trouble with muzzle flip (& the shooter is small or not so strong) holding further forward might help keep the muzzle down. However, I don't know how the left to right muzzle control would be affected bu this non symetrical grip technique, but I am sure alot of practice would help to fix this, just don't try it with any revolvers

In the famous words of Tuttle8 "Whatever floats your boat"
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Old May 13, 2009, 09:27 AM   #15
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I tend to put my finger on the trigger guard, especially on smaller guns. When I grip my Glock 36 carry gun in my big meat-hooks, my hands come together and my finger naturally rests on the guard. If I am using a 1911, or any auto with a larger area to hold, I dont always seem to do so. With revolvers, I never seem to do it, unless maybe if they are small J-frame size.

Frankly, I never really paid much attention to it, to be honest. I know I do it on small automatics, because people have pointed it out and asked me why I do it. I'm 99% certain I don't on any revolvers, but know I don't on N-Frames and the like. Now I want to go get out all of my guns and see where my hands come to grip them.....
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Old May 13, 2009, 09:35 AM   #16
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I use this technique, and it works great for me. Anyone telling me to "fix" my hold is going to get a glare and a big old STFU.
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Old May 13, 2009, 09:05 PM   #17
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Remember, some things are only obvious if you've seen them, or been taught well.

So some people need a little more explanation.

RantingRedneck and Dingoboyx raise very good points about revolvers, and offhand trigger fingers being too far forward. But until recently, I wouldn't have known what they meant, so I'm going to dumb their comments down to what I would have needed before I saw a very nasty picture involving bad technique and a S&W .500...

(Please note, I've been shooting for around 30 years; I just was taught good technique early on, so I've been lucky around revolvers. It never occurred to me to put my finger up there, which is good, because I was never told why not to do so.)

It's all about the barrel/cylinder gap. A lot of gas pressure comes out there, laterally, especially with magnum loads. Over time, this is why .357 revolvers often have a straight cut across the inside of the top of the frame.

There is a gruesome pic somehere on the net, possibly on this site, of a guy who had one of his digits alongside the b/c gap of the .500 when he fired. Shredded the tip of the digit so that it looked like a wedding ring de-gloving, if you've ever seen one of those. Like I said, nasty.
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Old May 13, 2009, 09:07 PM   #18
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In previous post I said laterally...

.... when I should have said high pressure gases spread out radially. IE in a circular pattern, in the plane of the b/c gap.
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Old May 14, 2009, 07:46 AM   #19
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Quote:
It's all about the barrel/cylinder gap. A lot of gas pressure comes out there, laterally, especially with magnum loads. Over time, this is why .357 revolvers often have a straight cut across the inside of the top of the frame.

There is a gruesome pic somehere on the net, possibly on this site, of a guy who had one of his digits alongside the b/c gap of the .500 when he fired. Shredded the tip of the digit so that it looked like a wedding ring de-gloving, if you've ever seen one of those. Like I said, nasty.

^ Ding, ding, ding........we have a winner .

If steel can be flame cut so can YOU..............

Most often a problem with large bore revolvers, but you can still be burned/cut with a .357 or even a .38. That's why the manuals carry that warning.

I prefer the thumbs forward grip when shooting autos and support hand wrapped around strong hand when shooting revolvers.
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