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Old April 28, 2009, 04:14 PM   #1
KingEdward
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This has worked twice.....did not have to pull CCW. Good Luck maybe.

From time to time in other posts, the question or discussion comes up regarding being verbal if/when someone approaches or if/when there is not yet all the factors for pulling one's CCW but there is maybe a perceived threat and we all have experienced a time probably when we were pretty close to deciding pull it out, y/n. I've had two experiences when I didn't necessarily know of definite threat, but also, these were situations where I chose to be verbal and the person coming towards me chose to go elsewhere.

FWIW, here is what happened and what was said. I'd like for others to share any similar experiences...

1) I was in a basement level parking Garage (under a restaurant). I had dropped off the family up top at the main door. I got out of the vehicle. Just near the steps to go up to eat, I was walking when pretty quickly a guy who was about 25 feet away leaning against the wall was about 15 feet away and walking right towards me. I stopped, faced him, and said clearly but not real loudly (while putting my left hand out palm facing him) YOU'RE CLOSE ENOUGH! He paused and took one more 1/2 step and stopped. He looked me in the eye, then he said, "Hey man we're all friends here, can you spare me a little money". I replied no sir and that I was sorry but was late for an appointment. When we finished the meal, I went and retrieved the vehicle and picked up the family.

2) I was getting gas about 10:15 one evening. It wasn't a "bad" part of town and there was just me, the cashier, and two teenagers standing by the pay phone. As I was finishing up, the teens began walking towards the driver's side of the truck, I was on passengers side and the ccw was on the floorboard of the passengers seat holstered just up under the seat. Before I could top off the tank and get in, one guy was near the driver door and the other was coming around towards the tail gate. I opened the passenger door, put my hand on the grip and made direct eye contact with the guy moving at the tailgate and said, "DO NOT COME ANY CLOSER!" he immediately stopped and looked at the other guy, then with eyes/head motioned the other guy to back away from the truck door. They asked if I had some cash for them to go buy some food. I didn't have any cash on me so I told them the truth and they looked at each other and walked towards the street. I left.

I think the first guy (parking garage) was just bumming for easy money. I think the teens (gas station) were doing the same but also would go farther if the risk (to them) seemed minimal. Not KNOWING what intention was, I chose to warn them via don't invade anymore of my space. I think this can work in certain situations. I know other times there will be no time to talk or think, just to deal with what is bearing down on you in form of harm.

In neither case was a ccw pulled or shown. Most people in the state of TN know there are several thousands of people with permits. Maybe that helps a little on the street. I'd like to think so.
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Old April 28, 2009, 04:21 PM   #2
Brian Pfleuger
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Well done.

Clear and direct. Achieved the desired result.
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Old April 28, 2009, 04:25 PM   #3
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People tend to underestimate what speaking with a clear powerful voice can do in situations like these. Most people don't feel comfortable in situations when someone is asking for money and these derelicts rarely encounter someone who responds in the way you did. I agree with your assessment of the 2 situations and that of the characters involved. With the way you responded to the 2 teens, I think they realized they might be biting off more than they could chew, whether they believed you were armed or not. You showed confidence in yourself by making eye contact and speaking firmly.

What can be learned from situations like these, is to not hesitate when your instincts are telling you something. It's understandable to feel bad for falsly reading someone's actions and wanting to make sure their intentions are what you think they are. This can be easily too late. Don't spare their feelings for your life.
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Old April 28, 2009, 04:43 PM   #4
KingEdward
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to Bauer:

Thanks,

I've read that if you look the other way, keep quiet, don't make eye contact, etc. then to a potential thug or mugger, those are victim signs for this guy is afraid or unprepared or both.

After reading Jeff Cooper and his color code system, it has helped me understand the importance of looking into the eye, speaking up and out and the last thing I want to do is appear the victim which sometimes aids in becoming one.

I also do not want things to escalate and feel whenever possible, give the other side pause or at least something that says to them, hey, this guy may
not be worth it.
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Old April 28, 2009, 07:02 PM   #5
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The best gunfight is one that never happens. In our CWP class, our instructor, a retired 25-year veteran of a local agency, showed us the "command voice".

"STOP! Stop or I will shoot you!" His gun was drawn and pointed at an imaginary assailant. I was sitting in the back row on a sofa and was looking for somewhere to hide. Disobeying his commands was unthinkable.

Of course, you must be ready to back up your command with a presentation and even a shot if need be.

Good work!
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Old April 28, 2009, 07:42 PM   #6
Willie Lowman
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It worked on me when I was trying to endorse a paycheck.

I once stopped to deposit my paycheck at my bank's ATM. It was late Friday evening. I realized that I had not endorsed my check and I didn't have a pen. I walked out into the parking lot between the bank and Kroger's and saw a woman getting out of her car.

I said "Excuse me miss." (I was 20, covered in a day's sweat, mud, marking paint, and limestone dust)

She said "WWWRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!" and assumed a martial arts stance.

(I nearly crapped my pants in surprise) "Do you have a pen?" I asked.

"NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!" She responded, still in the martial arts stance.

By this point I (who only wanted to sign my name to a check) felt like I was in a very dangerous situation. A situation that I did not have control over. I got out of there with the quickness, check undeposited.

...In summary, If you feel threatened. Use your words before you use your gun. They will show that you are in control of the situation. Crackheads, bums, (and young construction workers) will leave you alone.

Last edited by Willie Lowman; April 28, 2009 at 07:44 PM. Reason: Because I used bad words not allowed on this PG-13 forum
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Old April 28, 2009, 07:53 PM   #7
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That's funny stuff right there, Willie. LOL
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Old April 28, 2009, 08:10 PM   #8
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Well done. Your safety first their feelings second.
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Old April 28, 2009, 08:16 PM   #9
Enoy21
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HAHAHAHAHAAH


OMG Willie , that mimage just took me straight out of my anger at my GF and into histerics .... lmfao.....
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Old April 28, 2009, 09:17 PM   #10
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I aim to please.

It is a 100% true story.
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Old April 28, 2009, 09:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
She said "WWWRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!" and assumed a martial arts stance.

(I nearly crapped my pants in surprise) "Do you have a pen?" I asked.

"NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!" She responded, still in the martial arts stance.
I have been laughing to the point of tears for at least 3 minutes as I type. That is awesome. Kudos to her, I hope I would do the same. Kudos to YOU for peacing-out before things got worse

I have to be completely stereotypical about men for a moment (I promise I won't do it again): some of you guys really underestimate how VERY RARE situations are in which approaching a woman in a parking lot, garage, street, etc is appropriate - or a good idea. I have had to yank on a dad's, boyfriend's, and brother-in-law's arm on several occasions when I knew that their "simple question" would give a woman a heart attack and/or put the man at risk of serious physical danger - be it mace, a taser, a CCW, or martial arts

Then again, maybe the men I hang out with are so used to confident, able-to-protect-themselves women that it doesn't occur to them that their otherwise non-threatening behavior might scare someone.

Still laughing. That is freaking awesome. And a fabulous thread - I love my SD gun, but the effectiveness of direct eye-contact and forceful vocal commands is often understated.
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Old April 28, 2009, 10:27 PM   #12
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Willie

Thats just Histerical stuff,It sounds like that lady was about to bruce lee you to the ER with some round house kicks.


To the OP Good Awareness and the way you handled it.
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Old April 28, 2009, 10:41 PM   #13
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There is something about genuine confidence that transmits the 'don't mess with me' signal.

The direct, confident eye contact is very effective. Especially when one has a serious equalizer in one's possession.
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Old April 29, 2009, 08:29 AM   #14
robfromga
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king... you need to be careful with leaving your firearm in your truck/floorboard, etc. Keep that thing on you. Had those kids been a little slicker, or had a gun you would be toast.

That and explaining to LEO how it got stolen wouldnt be very fun.
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Old April 29, 2009, 08:35 AM   #15
KingEdward
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thanks Rob,

I had it "on" me that entire day. It was really hot and a little uncomfortable
and I took it off and layed it (up under edge of seat) as I was pulling into the station.

It stays on me now if I'm out.

Period.
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Old April 29, 2009, 10:16 AM   #16
yourang?
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willie's story

i wonder what that woman posted in her martial arts blog that day!

probably something along the lines of what we are seeing here
from the original poster?

something like: i was in this parking garage and some kid,
all sweaty and dusty, approached me with the classic line:
hey lady...you got a pen????? blah blah blah

(maybe she's reading here?....you never know)
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Old April 29, 2009, 10:47 AM   #17
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Lucky Man.

First, I am glad that you are OK.

Second, You are lucky that

Quote:
I was on passengers side and the ccw was on the floorboard of the passengers seat holstered just up under the seat. Before I could top off the tank and get in,
did not end with "....... one (or BOTH!) of them pulled a pistol and said "Give it up!" or "Get on the ground!"

As it happened, you were lucky, and you were quicker to your gun and smart enough to act decisively (command voice and eye contact) to solve the problem...... AND they were not stupid enough to try their luck (that they were faster or you were bluffing). Just keep in mind that criminals in general are not all that bright. There is no shortage of young fools out there that will risk it all for the contents of your wallet and/or the street cred that shooting you for refusing to "Give it up!" would bring.

Carry your gun. It is a lighter burden than regret.
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Old April 29, 2009, 01:57 PM   #18
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I stopped at an ATM late at night, once. I observed a car in the lot, several parking spaces away, with two men in it, watching me.

I promptly put the check back in my pocket, picked up the phone in the ATM kiosk and called the cops. Then I waited to see the results. (I was armed.)

Four (4) cars came roaring in from all directions, blocked the car and one officer got out to take an offensive position behind his engine block. I couldn't hear what was being said, but in about 1 minute, all the officers in all 4 cars got out, guns holstered and went over to the suspicious car and started laughing and yucking. One of the responding uniforms came over to me and said it was a plain-clothes stake out I'd blown.

Pops
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Old April 29, 2009, 02:07 PM   #19
Ike1371
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Well done Sir! Strong confident verbals should always be your first line of defense when there is not a direct and immediate threat. Bravo!!
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Old April 29, 2009, 02:38 PM   #20
KingEdward
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I think it can be good to give clear verbal caution depending on the situation...phrases like "you're close enough" or "don't come any closer".

I am not one to be verbal much with regard to in a house or in an apartment/condo due to my feelings on someone having broken in and my not wanting to reveal position/status but I think on the street or in a parking garage it can maybe keep some things from escalating very quickly.

To me, a possible threat deserves to know that I have no intention of
playing around or letting them have an advantage. After they know, they're probably going to do 1 of 4 things ... move on, stay/escalate, pull their own weapon, try to continue to talk and distract/disarm my caution.

move on is the preference. trying to distract/disarm my caution is useless.
stay/escalate enables me to possibly escalate or consider all options (cover, retreat, etc.), pull their own weapon means I try to survive and end the conflict any way possible.
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Old April 29, 2009, 05:56 PM   #21
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Quote:
One of the responding uniforms came over to me and said it was a plain-clothes stake out I'd blown.
Equally hilarious and awesome My friends make fun of me for my willingness to alert LE to suspicious activity. But I think instincts are there for a reason, and I'm willing to err on the side of caution. Just think - the car and the men WERE out of place, it just happened to be for a good reason. Had it been any other way, you might have saved a life!
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Old April 30, 2009, 05:21 AM   #22
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Quote:
One of the responding uniforms came over to me and said it was a plain-clothes stake out I'd blown.
Quote:
Just think - the car and the men WERE out of place
And if Joe Schmo can spot them, what about those they were intending to observe? Awesomeness and kudos to the OP for his success. Stay safe!
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Old April 30, 2009, 01:26 PM   #23
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sort of like a rattlesnake

This is a great topic. The described incidents are great examples of important SD principles. Great job in de-escalating (or in making the undercover cops look a little dopey) what could have become very bad situations.

In addition to communicating your situational awareness (ie., BG have lost their element of surprise), your resolve, and your clear intent to control the situation, your command voice also serves to alert any others around who could then be witnesses (because now they're watching), render assistance, or call for help/police.

The warning clears up any doubt in the BG mind that you might be a willing or easy victim. You've made it abundantly clear that you see him, your defensive posture and command voice makes clear that you'll fight back (with whatever means you might have - they have to be wondering what that would be) and that you consider him (them) a threat. Anyone with innocent intentions would get the message and leave, rather fast; continuing to advance would confirm your reasons for the warning. I'd like to think that most BG would hightail it after you blew their cover and their element of surprise.

Either way you have acted decisively and done what you can to descalate while ready for the STHTF. Great job.
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Old May 1, 2009, 04:30 PM   #24
vox rationis
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"WWWRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!"

sorry, just practicing..


..hilarious story
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Old May 1, 2009, 05:13 PM   #25
cracked91
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Ha ha, if some lady was about to mess me up I would not have bothered asking for a pen I would have ran off
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