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Old April 28, 2009, 03:42 PM   #1
Enoy21
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Personal experience ... (slightly reworded question)

So as I read through many of the tactics and questions from so many people about " What would you do if ... ? " " How would you handle ... ? "

While I think it's fantastic to imagine the various scenarios and try and drill into ourselves a reaction and how we would want to handle it... kind of like mentally training for it .... I was just wondering...

How many of us have actually been in situations where drawing your weapon was necessary or saved yours or someone elses life ?

Upon that : If shots were fired .....

  • What was the scenario and what happened ?
  • How did you handle it/them then ? ( please no shame if it wasn't as bravado as you had hoped or planned , be honest )
  • What was your comfort level with guns and defense prior to the event ?
  • How do you wish you had handled it ?
  • What have you done since then to try and make sure you handle it differently (if so desired) the next time ?



I'm interested to hear real, true experiences of what has actually happened, something to remind the rest of us how different training is to real life ... or just how well training can truly help.

Thanks in advance.

Last edited by Enoy21; April 29, 2009 at 03:17 PM. Reason: Slight subject rewording....
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Old April 28, 2009, 03:47 PM   #2
Brian Pfleuger
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This sort of thread has been brought up before, generally it has encountered a hostility that I find odd. Anyhow, we'll see how it goes this time....
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Old April 28, 2009, 03:52 PM   #3
Enoy21
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I really hope there is no hostility and will allow others to draw on the reality of personal experience and help many of us to better train and understand what happens to us as humans in these situations...

I think it can be very educational provided honest posters and understanding readers.


BTW , I'm glad that anyone who has been through these situations are still here to type about them. Thank you !
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Old April 28, 2009, 04:08 PM   #4
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The ones that matter to me do not get discussed for any number of valid reasons... Too personal to discuss being tops...
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Old April 28, 2009, 04:24 PM   #5
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Glad I didn't have to

I was in a situation. I was lucky it didn't turn into a shooting.

Going on three years ago on New Years Eve I was headed out to have a drink around 11 pm when I decided not to. Thinking about all the drunks out driving and not wanting to deal with them. The reason I bring this up is that I was very glad that I was sober.
At around 3am the dogs went crazy. I had three at the time with a combined weight of 270 lbs. I grabbed my phone, light & gun and dialed 911 while heading for the back door, following the dogs. Two of the dogs went out back through the dog door as I was looking out the window. One of them yelped and it ****** me off that whoever had tried to enter my house had hit my dog. I didn’t see anyone out the window so I checked the dog door and saw no one there. I must admit that some of this is fuzzy, some of the times blend into each other and I'm not clear on the order. That is something I didn't expect. So after looking out the dog door and not seeing anyone I opened the door only to be 2 feet away from a 19-20 year old standing on my porch hand rail and holding onto my rain gutter, trying to avoid the dogs. I'm standing there in my underwear talking to 911 and now crouching down to create more distance between the BD and myself pointing a gun at him. He tells me he was at a party and someone pulled a gun and he was running from the party and decided to come into my house. I tolled the 911 operator this and she says "that doesn’t give him the right to come into your house" I agreed whole heartedly. He asks if he can come in and says he will give me his id and reaches for his wallet. I tell him to keep his fn hands up and he tells me to keep it down so that the other BG with the gun won't find him. The 911 operator tells me that there has been other calls confirming his story and that there are 5 or 6 cars in the area. So I'm know in a shooting stance that I have never shot from, squatting down with a cell phone to my ear and pointing my gun at some kid with both eyes open (something I didn't practice before) instead of a two had hold looking down my sights.
The operator tells me they have the car stopped that had the armed BG in it. I called the dogs in, told the kid he's on his own and he's lucky. Closed the door locked the dog door and turned out the light.
I watched as he jumped the fence and I told the operator which way he went and what he was wearing. I was very thankful to have large dogs and that I had gone through some handgun training. If I hadn't had the training I was so pumped I was shaking and if I would of had my finger on the trigger I would of shot this kid. the next day i called the place that I had gone through training with and thanked them. Glad I didn't intentionally or by accidentally shoot this kid.
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Old April 28, 2009, 04:27 PM   #6
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I'm gonna have to take the fifth on this one.
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Old April 28, 2009, 04:32 PM   #7
David Armstrong
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Quote:
This sort of thread has been brought up before, generally it has encountered a hostility that I find odd.
It's not so much a hostility as a general dislike. Doing it once is bad enough. Reliving it over and over on an internet forum with a bunch of people you don't know is something else entirely.
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Old April 28, 2009, 04:37 PM   #8
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closest I came...

these forums from months and years past prepared me. A home invasion happened in an apartment below mine. Midnight. two armed men with ski masks. Door was kicked in and couple was held at gunpoint in their bed. place was ransacked/robbed. I secured HD and light, was a witness to the BGs running to the parking lot and driving away and I called the Police. I knew from reading and preparing, Do not leave my apartment, wait for the police and also, don't go downstairs to "check it out" after the BGs left.

In all honesty, the curiosity was literally eating me alive but I stayed put. The cops questioned me and I was fairly helpful in recalling what I saw. As they always say, it all happened so fast.

As to any differences for me, yes, now I carry in the apartment (vs. leaving on the nightstand in the bedroom) and I reinforced the door. Also, I have a catalog of forum articles by subject and I re-read and highlighted everything I could find on home invasion, defense plans, etc.

It is all helpful. I realize now that armed robbery and home invasion is not just on the news or in the paper.
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Old April 28, 2009, 06:57 PM   #9
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comn-cents , Thank you or that ... I'm glad the actual innocent was not shot , even though he seemed like the perp. I'm also glad you remained on the phone to know so and get what information you needed.

Mr. Armstrong , while I agree and understand the sentiment .... To me this is like a situation of a speaker who was formerly into drugs , or a policemen formerly shot and going to schools of information to share their story ... While incredibly hard to live through over and over , I'm hoping that by sharing the traumatizing experience with others just might help another , will make the sharing not only worth it , but therapeutic...


While I don't have any Gun related stories , I've had many "relationship" type events that have traumatized me over the years ( Single dad of two kids , raising them both as well as a very introspective philosophic thought process ) ... while sharing them on an internet blog , I was able to not only release that concern and bring my demons to the surface.... I have often heard feedback from others who also had been dealing with the same demons and were able to relate.

Those that hadn't been able to relate were able to step abck and really truly put themselves in those shoes long enough to have a better understanding of the reality and no longer relied on " hollywod " scenerios....


Sometime sthe anonymity of the internet helps to relase the past and the struggles without ear of judgment ...



Either way , I appreciate and look forward to any real stories experienced.
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Old April 28, 2009, 07:27 PM   #10
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I have been involved in three incidents in which my having a gun deterred criminal action.

The question, however, was about people who have been involved in "shoot-outs."

Not sure what that means. Two sides shooting at each other? If so, the number of such incidents, if military combat is excluded, will not be large. And if one excludes law enforcement actions, it will be much smaller.

I've never met a combat veteran who wanted to discuss his combat experiences. Never. And that includes people I have known who have fought in WWI, WWII in multiple theaters, Korea, Viet Nam, and Iraq.

I do not know whether law endorsement agencies would endorse the idea of one of their current or former members discussing their experiences in a combat shooting on a public forum. Frankly, I doubt it.

What about private citizens? First, the number of experiences is low. Second, as David armstrong points out, few people are going to like rehashing the story publicly.

And consider something else: if someone died in a shooting, anything brought out in the retelling could prove damaging from a criminal standpoint unless there has been an actual acquittal in a trial court, and there's also the possibility of civil liability. Now, would it really be wise for anyone to post anything on this?

No, I wouldn't expect anything worthwhile to come from this.

Last edited by OldMarksman; April 28, 2009 at 07:29 PM. Reason: typo
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Old April 28, 2009, 07:35 PM   #11
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twellons

I posted this with the hope that it may help someone if they have someone enter their house. It has helped me.

I now practice with a hand up to my ear (as if on the phone), both eyes open and not just in a good strong stance. I try not to go to the range in my skivvies just so I don't scare the natives.
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Old April 28, 2009, 07:40 PM   #12
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Old Marksman ... I definitely meant a broader spectrem of perhaps a better title of " When has your firearm served you in life or death situations" ... Poor question forming on my part.

I guess I can see some validity to the point of not wanting to discuss it for various reasons ... Perhaps it was a poor subject to ask for information on...
yet. In the interest of learning and understanding....


Someone in a previous thread mentioned ... Tomaca Mall? and "something" courthouse shootings as examples of real life events and how it goes down in situations ... All I had to go by in those was a Wiki report and news , which often skew the actions and events...


I would be interested to hear how :


Quote:
I have been involved in three incidents in which my having a gun deterred criminal action.
went down ....


For me me personally, my hope and view is that in the best case scenerio for me is that with someone else who intended to do harm to me or another just "knowing" that I had a firearm and that there is someone there ready to defend themselves would help to avoid any shootings of any kind.

The Threat of the situation, while also being prepared for the totality of the event, would deter a would be attacker.


If you have some specifics of how that helped you I would be grateful to hear them.


If not , I understand.
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Old April 28, 2009, 08:05 PM   #13
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These might help...

http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefe...g/blogger.html

http://www.defense-training.com/quips/quips.html

http://www.nraila.org/ArmedCitizen/Default.aspx
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Old April 28, 2009, 08:13 PM   #14
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One time while I was in le & lets just say we went home.
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Old April 29, 2009, 12:38 PM   #15
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Mr. Armstrong , while I agree and understand the sentiment .... To me this is like a situation of a speaker who was formerly into drugs , or a policemen formerly shot and going to schools of information to share their story ... While incredibly hard to live through over and over , I'm hoping that by sharing the traumatizing experience with others just might help another , will make the sharing not only worth it , but therapeutic...
It has nothing to do with trauma, therapy, or any of that stuff, at least for me. OldMarksman pretty well coverd it. I don't mind discussing LE shootings with LE or one on one with folks, I don't mind discussing military experiences with military or one on one with folks, there is something somewhat distasteful to me about tossing them out for general consumption and discussion on an unregulated public forum. Sorry.
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Old April 29, 2009, 01:01 PM   #16
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David A

If you don't like the thread why waste our time and yours posting things on it.
I understand that you have your opinion on it but others of us think differently.

I think that it is in bad taste that you post things here.

Go post on another thread that you might be interested in.
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Old April 29, 2009, 01:03 PM   #17
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I'd conjecture that the reason threads like this often encounter hostility is because the guys that have actually BT;DT don't particularly feel like sharing their experiences, and find it kind of rude when people ask them about them unsolicited. This applies equally to real life as online.
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Old April 29, 2009, 01:03 PM   #18
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Just this last dec I was standing by a tree with my shotgun when the BG came out of the forest at a full run. I shot him a little high breaking his back, he tryed to crawl into a cut corn field when I stepped up to him and shot him thru the back of his head. Then I dressed him and ate him. Got 2 deer that day, was first day of the season.

Years ago when I was a bouncer in a rough part of town, 2 guys were causing a problem so I asked em to leave. I was walking them out the door, I got them outside and asked them to not come back when one turned and levelled a gun at me he shot 6 times missing me each time we dug slugs out of the wall very close to where I was standing. So to everyone thinks he will get the BG with the first shot, I say doubt it unless you have nerves of steel and tons of training.

I have other situations but wont post them in any public forum, hate to think about some of them.
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Old April 29, 2009, 01:05 PM   #19
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On the other side of the coin, I find the experiences that DO get shared to be enlightening and educational...
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Old April 29, 2009, 01:07 PM   #20
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It's more the nature of the beast itself - if a combat vet wants to share his wisdom with you, that's one thing. However, these threads are sort of the 'net equivalent of rolling up to a gunfighter and saying "TELL ME ABOUT THE TIME YOU KILLED SOMEONE". It seems impolite, whether or not that's the intention of the person who posted the thread.
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Old April 29, 2009, 01:22 PM   #21
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The problem with the "don't like to talk about it" argument is that the answer to that is way too simple: Don't.

These threads are not a demand for information. It's a request. "Hey, anybody, if this has happened to you, please share."

It's not even a question directly to any individual, where you might feel awkward to refuse to talk about it.

If you don't want to share, don't. Not commenting at all means no one ever even knows anything happened.

The hostility is unexplainable.

I don't understand why it would be "distasteful". There are TV shows about combat, video documentaries, tv shows outlining SD strategy and reliving events to show what was done right and wrong. Why is this any different?

So far as the legal aspect, I would guess that it would be self-evident that if you are or could be in any form of legal jeopardy then you should keep your mouth shut.
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Old April 29, 2009, 01:25 PM   #22
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NRAhab , I can see that point of view and completely respect it, although that was in no way how it was intended to ask.

Not like a drooling teenager excited to hear how someone killed the big bad wolf... because it's keeeewl. ( which I fear is how you took it )


This is just an inquiry to hear real life stories of how shaken one can get in a life or death situation , how hard it is to stay on target and not to panic/misdraw/AD/ remember how to dial 911 etc.

I am not asking for details of a death , and am not glorifying death or a shooting... more so to hear how the person reacted in the Real life situation , good or bad , and how their training helped them or what they want to improve upon ....

Kind of a "What was your weak spot when it came to reality?" So that the rest of us can learn about scenerios we may not have expected , or learn more areas we need to train ourselves in.


Either way , no one is forced to answer , I was just looking for further education straight from the first hand account.
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Old April 29, 2009, 01:28 PM   #23
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Markj .... I'm assuming that like here you as a bouncer were unarmed correct ?

If so , I think I might have shat myself when it was leveled on me and I being defensless ( unless very close range ) . 6 shots is alot to miss, do you remember approximate yardage/distance at all ?
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Old April 29, 2009, 01:29 PM   #24
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Back easy there, everyone - I'm just a humble servant trying to explain why folk would have a hostile reaction to these threads.

Me personally, I don't like 'em because of the number of folk that show up to talk about using a firearm like it's that time at the high school football game where they caught the winning touchdown pass. For various reasons, I find that distasteful. Legit discussions of sound tactics is one thing, being regaled with tales of "I told him to keep his fn hands up" is something else entirely.
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Old April 29, 2009, 01:39 PM   #25
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Markj .... I'm assuming that like here you as a bouncer were unarmed correct ?
Completly unarmed and as surprised as can be. I never would of thought that would happen.

They were 2 or 3 steps away from me. Didnt mess me undies as I was in a state of shock, couldnt even move it happened so fast. Another time I was shot in the upper left back, never saw who did it, just felt it burn in.

We had several shootings at that bar and one other I worked at. Was a long time ago.
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