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Old April 28, 2009, 11:42 PM   #26
masterhunter
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Sorry about your loss................
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Old April 29, 2009, 08:46 AM   #27
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Thanks for the laugh Master
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Old April 29, 2009, 10:46 AM   #28
davlandrum
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Why? Thats when the REAL game starts.
Sorry, this is off topic, but you asked.

1) I do not (and won't) practice at 600. And if I am not sure I can do it, it is not a hunting distance for me.

2) If I did practice it and considered it hunting range, I honestly can not think of any spot where I hunt where I could even see an animal at 600, let alone have a shot.

3) That may be your idea of "the REAL game", my idea of the REAL game is when bow hunting trying to close the gap from 100 yds to 30 yds.

I have been lucky enough to be within touching distance of elk twice. That is the best thing in the world to me, even though I did not get a shot either time.
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Old April 29, 2009, 11:28 AM   #29
kyle1974
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I shoot a 7 mag and take pigs at distances out to 500 yards. My furthest shot was on a ~140 lb hog at about 490 yards. I have distances on my lease that I know within 10-20 yards where I'm at to take a lot fo the guess work out of the equation. Usually it comes down to guessing the wind, and hoping the pig doesn't move very much when I shoot.

I think it's a blast personally. I don't see how shooting a pig at 600 yards with a 7 mag is unethical, but shooting one in the head at 50 yards with a 17 HMR isn't...

have fun with it... pick the 7 mag.... more powder, flatter shooting, and I think you can find hunting bullets with better BC.

Last edited by kyle1974; April 29, 2009 at 02:33 PM.
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Old April 29, 2009, 12:51 PM   #30
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So the majority goes with 7mm Rem Mag.

But why would nayone prefer .308?
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Old April 29, 2009, 12:57 PM   #31
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Theres no fly's on the .308........you used them 2 as a comparison.

The .308 is a great little round capable of 1K easily, stocked with 190 SMK's or 208 A-max's it'll do the job well.

As a matter of fact for long distance shooting the 7mm/08 and .308 is my fav's but lately been working on the little .260 with 139 grain Scenars.

And as soon as I can get some 140 grain Bergers I'm flying.
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Old April 29, 2009, 02:52 PM   #32
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I think "I don't shoot at game at 600" should also be added
Right! If I can't surely hit a target the size of the games heart at the given distance, I don't shoot. Hunting ethics, IMHO. At 600 one can be happy tho hit the lungs of "medium sized game" with every 5th shot, (IMHO).
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Old May 1, 2009, 07:04 PM   #33
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300 wm That is if its an official entry... 7mm if not. The much heavier bullets in the 300 would make a big difference.
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Old May 1, 2009, 07:35 PM   #34
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Wow. I don't suppose any of you guys saw the show this week on the OC where the Huskemaw Optics long range team took out a beautiful Rocky Mountain ram at 765 yards with one shot from a PURPOSE BUILT 7mm Rem. Mag.? Obviously(as my handle implies), I prefer 7mm's, but past 600 yards?

"Purpose Built" was the key phrase there. I loved all my .308's, but in my personal battery a shot that long would only go to my .300 Weatherby and 190 gr. Hornadys. With a BC of .491 and a SD of .286, you're not going to trump that with much-unless it's a Berger in a .30-378. IMO, terminal performance at long range is the key. What is your particular bullet designed to do and at what velocity?

I would take both. Use the .308 and a decent performing bullet out to 300, then switch to the 7mm and 162's or 165's for the "long shot". Again, without performance, optics a shot that long gets real "iffy".


-7-
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Old May 1, 2009, 07:41 PM   #35
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So if I can consistently fire a sub 3 inch group at 500 yards from prone w/bipod, under good conditions and I am willing to wait for good conditions and the proper presentation is taking a 500 yard shot un-ethical?? Is that any different than a person who can only get 3 inch groups at 150 yards?

By the way my vote for long distance would be something at least the equivalent to a 300rum...maybe a 338 lapua or the like. Take a look at Best of the Wests videos on youtube I thik they are using a 6.5-284. Out of the two calibers you mentioned - the 7 mag, with 180gr berger VLD bullets
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Old May 1, 2009, 08:30 PM   #36
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To answer the original question,the 7 rem has an advantage.

I have noticed @ 1090 yds the Amax prints about 14 in higher than a 168 Mk
from my rifle,(same sight setting).

My M-70 will not let me put an A-max in the magazine if it is close to the lands.Ogive vs Overall length

OP wrires from Pakistan.Not all people look at life the same.

But for me,regardless of the range,we owe our prey a swift,clean,death.

Causing suffering is not fun,for me.

Regardless of range,we all remember,and tell,the story of the great shot.

Do we have the courage to say"Yeah,I shot an elk at 640 yds,broke its left rear leg,it rolled,got up.Then I put another in the hindqurters.You should have seen him dragging himselfwith his front legs,etc,etc"

If you can tell the story over and over of "When it goes wrong",go ahead,if you want to call it "Fun".

No,I have not done that.I did see some guides hunting DVD of folks shooting across canyon at elk who were doing just that.

What I did do was shoot a pronghorn at 440 yds with my .257 AI.Instant kill.Neck shot.Problem is,I was aiming heart lung,and a little breeze pushed it over.Just as easy,it would have been a gut shot.I have nothing to be proud of.

I will suggest if I could not choose the better cartridge,and had to ask,I would not have enough ballistic knowledge to be ready to make a clean kill at 600 or more.

Now,there is a great game,Silhouettas Metallicas,where the images of rams,sheep,pigs,etc are made of steel plate and put out at long ranges,and the competitors have to hit and knock over the targets.

That is a great way to have fun at long range.
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Old May 2, 2009, 02:29 AM   #37
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So if I can consistently fire a sub 3 inch group at 500 yards from prone w/bipod, under good conditions and I am willing to wait for good conditions and the proper presentation is taking a 500 yard shot un-ethical?? Is that any different than a person who can only get 3 inch groups at 150 yards?
Your choice. You know what you can do and what your circumstances allow for. I wouldn't do it.
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Old May 2, 2009, 09:37 AM   #38
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I use them both and love them both equally but they are two completely diffrent ducks. First off let me start by saying 300 yards is a far stretch for me. I can't think of any critters I have shot (or shot at) over that. Most of what I have put on the wall is well under 200. I have shot elk with both but perfer the 7mm Mag with standard 175 SP bullet. The bull I shot in January witht hat combo, dropped like I took his legs out. The cow I shot with my 308took two steps and was dead on her feet. They will both "do it" but IMO the 7MM mag is the ultimate big game rifle. But, don't discount the old war horse either. But at the distances you are talking about. The only advise I can give you is to work on getting closer as neither will do the job 100% of the time.
Elk hunting is unbelieveably HARD work take your time and work in to make the shot way under that it will increase your odds dramatically!
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Old May 2, 2009, 10:22 AM   #39
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Why bother shooting that far, you risk wounding your animal which is never good. It doesn't matter what kinda of gun you have you just have to be comfortable shooting it and shooting that distance. I have seen a guy, my best friends dad acuallly shoot a moose at just over 500 yards and it only ran 35 yards and died. He was using a 30-06 with a 180 grain bullet. Now there is no way i could have done that, i use a 270. win so i dont think theres enough power at 500 yards to take a moose but even if there was i dont think i could have made a good shot on a moose. I have taken coyote, whitetail, and mule deer at pretty good ranges with my 270. win like i got a montana mule at 426 yards, and the same trip got my montana whitetail at 278 yards. like normally i wouldn't take a 400-500 yard shot but i couldn't pass and tehre was no way i could get closer, so i did
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Old May 2, 2009, 10:24 AM   #40
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Why not just get closer and take the gun you want. Both will do the job but at 600 yards that a far shot and you might injure the animal and not kill it.
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Old May 2, 2009, 10:38 AM   #41
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So if I can consistently fire a sub 3 inch group at 500 yards from prone w/bipod, under good conditions and I am willing to wait for good conditions and the proper presentation is taking a 500 yard shot un-ethical??
only if you shoot three cold barrel shots allow the weather to change between them and group must be centered.
Also IMHO there is a big difference between a 500yard limit and talking about 600 and out. Also past 600 yards time of flight can allow the animal time to move.Now you got a wounded animal that it's going to take a couple minutes to get to (even if you are Carl Lewis) now you have to start tracking it and it may be 1/2 a mile away (most animals can run faster than you wounded)

The animals deserve better get closer.
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Old May 2, 2009, 11:27 AM   #42
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How many of these long distance hunters ,I mean shooters have the ability to make a shot at over 400yards shooting out of a swaying tree stand or leaning on one or just off a drop stick type bypod. Lay'n prone with a bipode on the gun??? Never ever seen a hunter than had that kind of set up except some ex or wana bee sniper types that never let the deer stand around long enough to know what they shot and with the help of a spotter or how many miss's were edited out. Yes a 308 will shot well to a 1000yds but with a drop that is darn hard to keep track of. I also have seen stupid long shots take'n on game with good results, does that make it a skill or just a stupid shot. Just a stupid shot. Anyone watch the sniper show on tv where the guys had a target jump up at distances from 150 yards to 600 yards ,all they had to do was find them and shoot before there window closed on them and this was with a spotter . Most missed there targets more than they carred to talk about. That related more to hunting where you only have a short time to make a judgement on the game ,find the distance and shoot. Ain't none of these calibers or production rifles ready for 600 yard shooting with out to much luck being used up.
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Old May 2, 2009, 11:42 AM   #43
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600 hundred yards is a long shot with any caliber. With factory loads the 308 only has 1000 pounds of energy out to 500 hundred yards; so if your not loading your own its not really an option. If you are loading your own you could POTENTIALLY use either the 308 or the 7mm mag. The magnum will have more energy and a flatter trajectory though.
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Old May 2, 2009, 11:48 AM   #44
masterhunter
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Spinning turrets, doping wind and rangefinding aint rocket science........

700 is the norm and anything under is like taking candy from a baby.
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Old May 2, 2009, 11:57 AM   #45
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Old May 10, 2009, 07:42 AM   #46
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So the 7mm Rem Mag has an edge over .308 because of it's flatter trajectory?
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Old May 10, 2009, 07:58 AM   #47
masterhunter
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And energy carrying capabilities.
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Old May 10, 2009, 08:14 AM   #48
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Indeed.
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Old May 10, 2009, 09:32 AM   #49
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For long range big game hunting the fastest bullet you can stand to shoot that is a proper weight and design for the task will compensate more effectively for errors by the shooter.
The 7 mag will simply shoot a similar weight bullet faster than a 308 and with a higher ballistic coefficient. No more to it than that.
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Old May 10, 2009, 11:06 AM   #50
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IMHO the 7mm Rem Mag is outdated by the WSM's (270WSM, 7mmWSM, .300WSM). If you buy a new rifle, go for the internal ballistic advantages of short fat cases (WSM).
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