BIG BORE Express lite double rifle ???

Magnum Wheel Man · April 28, 2009, 10:37 AM

man... what a dark path I've found myself wandering down...

my local builder / buddy has been wanting to do something eh... a little different, & he's been dragging me ( kicking & screaming

) along with him... his ideas revolve around old milsurp actions...

but how about a Stoeger side by side 28 gauge double barrel shotgun rebarreled with 58 caliber rifled muzzleloader barrels, cut & fitted with 577 Snider chambers ??? ( I found a place pretty local that has 3 of the 28 ga side by side doubles for pretty cheap )

the Brass, 58 caliber mini balls, & even Lee dies are all readily available...

I think the Snider is exempt from the "over 50 cal. ruling " because of it's age... I was thinking a big bore double might be fun to add to the collection along with my new Remington 45-70 double...

thoughts or suggestions ???

darkgael · April 28, 2009, 10:45 AM

That sounds neat, especially the chambering. I wonder, though, about how you are going to regulate the thing. The three common methods are to use a jack screw, to set the barrels in a jig that has been calibrated and then solder them together, and the third which is like the second except the barrels are soldered, shot, desoldered, adjusted, resoldered, shot, etc. until they shoot together.
What are your plans?
Pete

Magnum Wheel Man · April 28, 2009, 10:50 AM

Well I'm not the "builder" of the duo... but I really like the mono block chamber that the guy used on Hubels "shotgun from hell thread"... I guess I was thinking about something like that, with the jack screw set up similar to how my 45-70 is regulated for putting the barrels together... I'm sure my buddy has possibly even a better idea ??? ( last we chatted, we were not talkin doubles though ??? )

jglsprings · April 28, 2009, 11:07 AM

How about this........

Magnum Wheel Man · April 28, 2009, 11:11 AM

that is funny...

but in all fairness, the 577 Snider is a much shorter cartridge than the typical 577 "African game" size cartridge

jglsprings · April 28, 2009, 11:19 AM

Quote:

that is funny...

but in all fairness, the 577 Snider is a much shorter cartridge than the typical 577 "African game" size cartridge

The perfect CCW round for elephants!!!

No more "Which is better 38 / 9mm / 45acp" threads!!

Scorch · April 28, 2009, 11:45 AM

Why not just make the double in 45-70? It's fairly easy to do, ammo is available, and factory ammo is kept pretty mild. Or, if that worries you, make it in 38/55 or 357 Maximum, 44 Magnum, 45 Colt, or any one of a dozen other rounds. It's fairly easy to do, and relatively inexpensive (you do have to buy 2 barrels, which can get expensive).

darkgael · April 28, 2009, 01:10 PM

Quote:

It's fairly easy to do

Putting one together is fairly easy. Getting both barrels to shoot the same load to the same place is more of a task.
Pete

Magnum Wheel Man · April 28, 2009, 01:39 PM

already have a double in 45-70...

publius · April 28, 2009, 02:26 PM

Regulating the barrels would be a big concern to me. I know some very good custom rifle builders and every one I have ever mentioned a double build to says they wouldn't attempt a double build b/c of this.

darkgael · April 28, 2009, 03:06 PM

MagWheelMan: How does that Remington shoot between here and 100 yards? What loads have you tried? I've been sorely tempted.
I have an O/U DR, a Rizzini 90L Express in .30-06. Beautiful gun. The barrels print within a couple of inches of each other at 100 yards. Haven't tried it at any longer range.
Pete

Magnum Wheel Man · April 28, 2009, 03:14 PM

it's still on layaway ( about 3/4 paid for )... it was an "unplanned" purchase

however, they are only rated for lower pressure ( trapdoor ) loads... I plan on heavy bullet loads at lighter pressures for this rifle

the Remy / Russian imports use a jack screw to adjust the left barrel, the front sight is ( AK style ) height adjustable, & the rear is windage adjustable... I'm thinking about changing out to fiber optic sights on this rifle

this is the jack screw...

BTW... I'm thinking about patterning my regulation system similarly to how this one works, but with maybe some better sights... thinkin Williams fiber optic ghost ring sights...

darkgael · May 1, 2009, 05:21 AM

MagWhlMn: If you are gonna do it, why not use classic Express sights on a quarter rib?
What kind of sights are on the Remington?
Pete

LordofWar · May 1, 2009, 06:55 AM

I recebtly acquired a H&H Double Express rifle in .500 Nitro.

Planning on using it this year @ Africa.

jglsprings · May 1, 2009, 07:32 AM

Quote:

I recebtly acquired a H&H Double Express rifle in .500 Nitro.

Planning on using it this year @ Africa.

Can you post a picture of the 500 next to something more common like a 30-06 cartridge?

A picture of the rifle would be nice too.... the H&H's are truly a work of art.

TIA

Magnum Wheel Man · May 1, 2009, 07:51 AM

I have a set of 3 leaf safari sights on my Martini "safari" 45-70... the Remington double just has a simple solid rear v notch sight that is drift adjustable in a dove tail, the evelvation adjustment is done with the AK style screw in front sight... I'm kind of undecided if I want a more "traditional" look via the sights, or if I want the more practical "use" of a fiber optic sight... I really like those Williams fiber optic ghost ring sights... fast & practical... IMO, one of the best set of sights that could go on a modern dangerous game rifle...

this is the rear sight

L.O.W.... very jelous... of both the rifle, & the trip to Africa... would love to see pics...

this is the best pic I have of the rear sight on the Remington double...

pesta2 · May 1, 2009, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Can you post a picture of the 500 next to something more common like a 30-06 cartridge?

Jglsprings

Here are some from my cartridge collection.

Large bores .50 and above:
From left to right:

.223 and .280 for scale purposes
.505 Gibbs
.50 Whisper
.500 Nitro
.577 BP Express
.577 Nitro
.577 T-rex
.585 Nyati
.600 Nitro
.700 Nitro

jglsprings · May 1, 2009, 09:41 AM

Thanks! A picture always adds a thousand words!

Magnum Wheel Man · May 4, 2009, 06:45 AM

I got to talk to my builder buddy about my project over the week end... if I can find a 12 ga. double barrel shotgun strong enough, he has an idea as far as regulating the barrels... we'll use the 12 ga barrels, & make barrel liners for the 577 Snider, then ad 3 set screws threaded in at the muzzle of each 12 gauge barrel, to adjust the liner inside, once the barrels were regulated, the screws could be timmed to length, or an o ring could be added to the barrel liner 4-6" down from the muzzle and a pourable epoxy could be added between the liner & the 12 ga barrel to keep the liners in position... or I could solder them in position as well... I though this was as good an idea as any, the gun would look just like the 12 ga double, but would be fitted to the 577 Snider...

now... I'd need to find an action strong enough to handle the cartridge... at even black powder pressure, the cartridge creates almost twice the pressure of a 12 ga magnum...

double exposed hammers would be way cool, but any suggestions as to the strongest / cheapest double barrel 12 ga ??? my buddy thought the Russian guns would be as good a starting place as any, & the coach guns are popular right now, & they might be a good place to start, but I might want a longer barrel than the 18-20" that are common on the coach guns...

any suggestions ???

Jim Watson · May 4, 2009, 07:37 AM

I once read through all the conversion posts on AccurateReloading.com and NitroExpress.com and there are a lot of things to know about making a shotgun into a rifle. It might pay you to spend some time there:
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/ubbthreads.php?Cat=0
You have to register to get the gunsmithing and reloading sections under double rifles to show up.

There is also a book on the subject.
http://bundukipublishing.com/doublerifle.htm

Magnum Wheel Man · May 4, 2009, 07:58 AM

Thanks JIM... I'll try registering over there... I'm looking forward to playing with my 1st double ( 45-70 ) as soon as it's off layaway, & hope to build this poor mans big bore double over the summer...

Magnum Wheel Man · May 7, 2009, 06:40 AM

I stopped in at the local Cabelas last night after I got back into town ( from a road trip ) & they had just recieved a part of a big collection of old double barrels from another store ( I think they spread the collection around to several of their stores )... as I was walking by, to the reloadng department ( a regular routine ) a double barrel caught my eye... no wood fore end... it was metal, & had exposed hammers... I swerved into the used gun department... The gun was an "under lever" ??? Husquavarna hmmm... looks interesting... as I started to look at the racks, another caught my eye, then another, & another... holy cowboy batman... lots & lots of old double barrel exposed hammer shotguns... 1st, I called my builder buddy & asked his opinion, as there were several Belgain guns & a Sauer or two as well... he thought there would be nothing wrong with the Husky's with thier Swedish steel... after I got off the phone with him, I promptly enlisted the guy from the gun library, & learned as much as I could in a short time... BTW... the 2nd thing that caught my eye was the price... almost all were less money than the cheap Stoeger coach guns I had been looking at...

the gun I finally selected... ( it's on hold until payday )

a top break Husquavarna triple locking action 12 gauge ( 2 locking lugs & a cross bolt Greenier style lock ) double trigger, side lock exposed hammers, rebounding firing pins, extractors instead of ejectors, pistol grip stock, checkering & engraving is very crisp, as is case hardening color... the gun has a ding in the left barrel at 23.5" & the guy in the gun library suggested that the ding was put in the barrel very early in the guns life, as it looked like it had been fired very very little... I was planning on 22" - 24" barrels for the double rifle anyway, so the ding is of little concern to me... everything else on the gun checked out as exceptionally good... the only negitive for my purpose was the friction fit style of fore arm attachment ( but its very tight right now ), rather than the lever lock style...

just as a start, I may enlist my buddy to trim the barrels to the ding, which would give me a functional & very nice 23.5" barrel coach gun, then if I decide to go through with the project, I can continue from there...

I was looking for barrels, & so far, Pac Nor seems like the best option I've found so far, as I can get different twist rates than the standard very slow twist 58 caliber muzzleloader barrels

any thoughts or suggestions as I progress ???

Magnum Wheel Man · May 7, 2009, 07:28 AM

after some reseach, I believe this is the gun...

http://www.skydevaaben.com/husqvarna/model51/info.xml

but mine has a little more engraving

April 28, 2009, 10:37 AM	#1
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	BIG BORE Express lite double rifle ??? man... what a dark path I've found myself wandering down... my local builder / buddy has been wanting to do something eh... a little different, & he's been dragging me ( kicking & screaming ) along with him... his ideas revolve around old milsurp actions... but how about a Stoeger side by side 28 gauge double barrel shotgun rebarreled with 58 caliber rifled muzzleloader barrels, cut & fitted with 577 Snider chambers ??? ( I found a place pretty local that has 3 of the 28 ga side by side doubles for pretty cheap ) the Brass, 58 caliber mini balls, & even Lee dies are all readily available... I think the Snider is exempt from the "over 50 cal. ruling " because of it's age... I was thinking a big bore double might be fun to add to the collection along with my new Remington 45-70 double... thoughts or suggestions ??? __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

April 28, 2009, 10:45 AM	#2
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	DR That sounds neat, especially the chambering. I wonder, though, about how you are going to regulate the thing. The three common methods are to use a jack screw, to set the barrels in a jig that has been calibrated and then solder them together, and the third which is like the second except the barrels are soldered, shot, desoldered, adjusted, resoldered, shot, etc. until they shoot together. What are your plans? Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

April 28, 2009, 10:50 AM	#3
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	Well I'm not the "builder" of the duo... but I really like the mono block chamber that the guy used on Hubels "shotgun from hell thread"... I guess I was thinking about something like that, with the jack screw set up similar to how my 45-70 is regulated for putting the barrels together... I'm sure my buddy has possibly even a better idea ??? ( last we chatted, we were not talkin doubles though ??? ) __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

April 28, 2009, 11:11 AM	#5
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	that is funny... but in all fairness, the 577 Snider is a much shorter cartridge than the typical 577 "African game" size cartridge __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

April 28, 2009, 11:45 AM	#7
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Why not just make the double in 45-70? It's fairly easy to do, ammo is available, and factory ammo is kept pretty mild. Or, if that worries you, make it in 38/55 or 357 Maximum, 44 Magnum, 45 Colt, or any one of a dozen other rounds. It's fairly easy to do, and relatively inexpensive (you do have to buy 2 barrels, which can get expensive). __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

April 28, 2009, 01:39 PM	#9
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	already have a double in 45-70... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

April 28, 2009, 02:26 PM	#10
publius Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2005 Location: Mississippi/Texas Posts: 2,505	Regulating the barrels would be a big concern to me. I know some very good custom rifle builders and every one I have ever mentioned a double build to says they wouldn't attempt a double build b/c of this. __________________ "Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress, but I repeat myself." Mark Twain

April 28, 2009, 03:06 PM	#11
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	Rem DR MagWheelMan: How does that Remington shoot between here and 100 yards? What loads have you tried? I've been sorely tempted. I have an O/U DR, a Rizzini 90L Express in .30-06. Beautiful gun. The barrels print within a couple of inches of each other at 100 yards. Haven't tried it at any longer range. Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

April 28, 2009, 03:14 PM	#12
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	it's still on layaway ( about 3/4 paid for )... it was an "unplanned" purchase however, they are only rated for lower pressure ( trapdoor ) loads... I plan on heavy bullet loads at lighter pressures for this rifle the Remy / Russian imports use a jack screw to adjust the left barrel, the front sight is ( AK style ) height adjustable, & the rear is windage adjustable... I'm thinking about changing out to fiber optic sights on this rifle this is the jack screw... BTW... I'm thinking about patterning my regulation system similarly to how this one works, but with maybe some better sights... thinkin Williams fiber optic ghost ring sights... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

May 1, 2009, 05:21 AM	#13
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	sights MagWhlMn: If you are gonna do it, why not use classic Express sights on a quarter rib? What kind of sights are on the Remington? Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

May 1, 2009, 06:55 AM	#14
LordofWar Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2009 Location: Pakistan Posts: 646	I recebtly acquired a H&H Double Express rifle in .500 Nitro. Planning on using it this year @ Africa.

May 1, 2009, 09:41 AM	#18
jglsprings Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2009 Posts: 1,827	Thanks! A picture always adds a thousand words!

May 4, 2009, 06:45 AM	#19
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	I got to talk to my builder buddy about my project over the week end... if I can find a 12 ga. double barrel shotgun strong enough, he has an idea as far as regulating the barrels... we'll use the 12 ga barrels, & make barrel liners for the 577 Snider, then ad 3 set screws threaded in at the muzzle of each 12 gauge barrel, to adjust the liner inside, once the barrels were regulated, the screws could be timmed to length, or an o ring could be added to the barrel liner 4-6" down from the muzzle and a pourable epoxy could be added between the liner & the 12 ga barrel to keep the liners in position... or I could solder them in position as well... I though this was as good an idea as any, the gun would look just like the 12 ga double, but would be fitted to the 577 Snider... now... I'd need to find an action strong enough to handle the cartridge... at even black powder pressure, the cartridge creates almost twice the pressure of a 12 ga magnum... double exposed hammers would be way cool, but any suggestions as to the strongest / cheapest double barrel 12 ga ??? my buddy thought the Russian guns would be as good a starting place as any, & the coach guns are popular right now, & they might be a good place to start, but I might want a longer barrel than the 18-20" that are common on the coach guns... any suggestions ??? __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

May 4, 2009, 07:37 AM	#20
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	I once read through all the conversion posts on AccurateReloading.com and NitroExpress.com and there are a lot of things to know about making a shotgun into a rifle. It might pay you to spend some time there: http://forums.nitroexpress.com/ubbthreads.php?Cat=0 You have to register to get the gunsmithing and reloading sections under double rifles to show up. There is also a book on the subject. http://bundukipublishing.com/doublerifle.htm

May 4, 2009, 07:58 AM	#21
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	Thanks JIM... I'll try registering over there... I'm looking forward to playing with my 1st double ( 45-70 ) as soon as it's off layaway, & hope to build this poor mans big bore double over the summer... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

May 7, 2009, 06:40 AM	#22
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	OK... how did I do ??? I stopped in at the local Cabelas last night after I got back into town ( from a road trip ) & they had just recieved a part of a big collection of old double barrels from another store ( I think they spread the collection around to several of their stores )... as I was walking by, to the reloadng department ( a regular routine ) a double barrel caught my eye... no wood fore end... it was metal, & had exposed hammers... I swerved into the used gun department... The gun was an "under lever" ??? Husquavarna hmmm... looks interesting... as I started to look at the racks, another caught my eye, then another, & another... holy cowboy batman... lots & lots of old double barrel exposed hammer shotguns... 1st, I called my builder buddy & asked his opinion, as there were several Belgain guns & a Sauer or two as well... he thought there would be nothing wrong with the Husky's with thier Swedish steel... after I got off the phone with him, I promptly enlisted the guy from the gun library, & learned as much as I could in a short time... BTW... the 2nd thing that caught my eye was the price... almost all were less money than the cheap Stoeger coach guns I had been looking at... the gun I finally selected... ( it's on hold until payday ) a top break Husquavarna triple locking action 12 gauge ( 2 locking lugs & a cross bolt Greenier style lock ) double trigger, side lock exposed hammers, rebounding firing pins, extractors instead of ejectors, pistol grip stock, checkering & engraving is very crisp, as is case hardening color... the gun has a ding in the left barrel at 23.5" & the guy in the gun library suggested that the ding was put in the barrel very early in the guns life, as it looked like it had been fired very very little... I was planning on 22" - 24" barrels for the double rifle anyway, so the ding is of little concern to me... everything else on the gun checked out as exceptionally good... the only negitive for my purpose was the friction fit style of fore arm attachment ( but its very tight right now ), rather than the lever lock style... just as a start, I may enlist my buddy to trim the barrels to the ding, which would give me a functional & very nice 23.5" barrel coach gun, then if I decide to go through with the project, I can continue from there... I was looking for barrels, & so far, Pac Nor seems like the best option I've found so far, as I can get different twist rates than the standard very slow twist 58 caliber muzzleloader barrels any thoughts or suggestions as I progress ??? __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust... Last edited by Magnum Wheel Man; May 7, 2009 at 06:48 AM.

May 7, 2009, 07:28 AM	#23
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	after some reseach, I believe this is the gun... http://www.skydevaaben.com/husqvarna/model51/info.xml but mine has a little more engraving __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...