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Old April 23, 2009, 01:04 PM   #1
emtmark
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herbert schmidt help, in .357

Just bought a Single action HS Model 121 S, chambered for .357 magn, or magnum in the more modern. Got it pretty cheap from a friend only to find that the loading gate appears to be broken. A small splined shaft protrudes from the frame side and the loading gate has a matching hole which allows it to pivot to the right (holding gun in firing postion). That hole in the gate is cracked and the matching splines to the frame mounted shaft are stripped. . ive googled a bunch this morning and have gotten nowhere. Bobs gun store or some such place sent an email back simply stated cant help. First pistol for me and i'm hesitant to start tearing down a pistol. Does the gate rotate on the splined shaft? Or does the gate rotate the splined shaft its self moving linkage or bits inside the pistol frame? Whats the repair for this? could I spot weld and grind the gate to the shaft if i can't find a replacement gate? Please help a newbie. emtmark Mark W. EMTP "I know what this man needs, bring me the bourbon!"
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Old April 24, 2009, 09:19 AM   #2
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update

ive spoken with the few smiths that are in my area and they say that the loading gate was friction fit to the splined shaft and that proper operation would have the loading gate turn the splined shaft left or right and a ball detent would hold it open or closed. Does anybody have a line on a replacement gate? perhaps i could even drill and pin it in place? spot weld and grind? Im really lost right about now anything would help thanks mark
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Old April 25, 2009, 08:20 AM   #3
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nobody knows abt this gun?
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Old April 27, 2009, 12:34 PM   #4
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super bummer
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Old April 27, 2009, 05:28 PM   #5
Sgt127
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Geez...I consider myself a bit of a revolver nut...never heard of them...
http://www.e-gunparts.com/model.asp?idDept=108
Is all I could find on any parts at all!
Good luck
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Old April 27, 2009, 05:29 PM   #6
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Do a search on the Forum for herbert schmidt...I found a few other threads where they are discussed...
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Old May 18, 2009, 07:47 PM   #7
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update on the herbert schmidt, please help

i have stopped at nearly every gun shop between work and home, read 12 plus, and nobody has any idea about this gun. I have ran into a fair amount of what i believe to be mis information was when i was told that the pistol in my hand was a "Rohm" and that i should jbweld it shut and paint the barrel orange. "give it to your kid to play with" not only was i ****** that any gunsmith would have a kid play with a real gun inop or not but that he couldn't read. Rohem west germany was the factory as i understand it and herbert schmidt was a totally different company that rohm which according to the same guy would be dangerous to shoot because the "rohm" was a known dangerous gun. Please tell me im right about this! 2 different guns right?? On other news numrich sent me 2 loading gates but they were for the small frame more common .22 models. sigh does anybody have a exploded diagram or dissassembly instructions? i have to get the gate made at a machine shop and i have to pull that splined shaft out to give to the machinist. clearly a case of cheap gun plan gone horribly wrong. If the Rohm and scmidt are the same guns i'm going to toss it, scrap it out or sell for parts. but if its truly a decent gun i'm gonna spend the money, i love having a unique bit of kit. thank you all mark
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Old May 18, 2009, 08:03 PM   #8
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Exactly; Herbert Schmidt guns were made in West Germany, but they are a far sight better than the Rohm Gesellschaft/RG crap that were also produced in West Germany, then moved to the US after the GCA '68. They were imported by Herters, and then by a Florida Firearms Company, but it might be difficult to find parts. This page has a bunch of parts ( http://www.gun-parts.com/singleactions/ ) but they say they're out of the gate right now; if you look long enough, you'll find what you need.
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Old May 18, 2009, 08:10 PM   #9
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ARGHHHH I knew it, shaking fist in air, i can say it now, that guy was a nasty rude arrogant know it all and he made me feel like a complete idiot. I will never do business with that guy or that shop based on my walk in encounter today.
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Old May 18, 2009, 08:12 PM   #10
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do you have any break down, assembly pics or instructions? I'm so happy i bought this gun i hate having what everybody else does. I'm back to excited! do you have one? was yours the one i found in my searches with the holsters and knife pics?
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Old May 18, 2009, 09:16 PM   #11
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I guess if you hate having common stuff, you should be happy. Unless the machinist is a very good friend, having that gate made will cost more than the gun is worth.

IIRC, HS and RG guns were imported and distributed by the same people. Identical guns were sold under both names and I have always understood they were made in the same factory. That web page bears this out, at least for the 121. Herter's may have sold Schmidt guns, but I thought their center fire single actions were made by Sauer.

(P.S. I have to wonder who you are really mad at, the boorish gunsmith or yourself for buying that gun in the first place. )

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Old May 18, 2009, 09:58 PM   #12
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lol, truly a buyer beware, it was for my part an unknown gun so my bad at the inception for not knowing that parts are NO WHERE, lol. that said, yes that guy was a royal jerk to me. Maybe because I wasn't packin a badge and its a LEO type establishment or maybe the guy was having a bad day. Anyway you slice it if your in business to do business you need to take care of your clients. to me he diddn't need me as a client and i can't recomend a place to others that diddn't do right by me. so yes i was had, not intentionally by the friend who sold it to me, he diddn't know and had no idea the gate was hangin in there and working for him, and it broke literally the day i picked it up. so a learning experiance for me and yes my buddy will do it for price of materials. It will just take a while for him to knock it out little by little. still an adventure and any and all diagrams, pictures maybe of your schmidt, with an intact gate thank you all i'm learning alot. mark
ps i apologize a head of time for the lowercase typing, just a think i do, sometimes i remember and sometimes i don't.
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Old May 18, 2009, 10:23 PM   #13
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Sorry if I left the impression I had one of those. I don't, though I worked in a shop that sold both them and RG's which is why I know at least some were the same guns. Of course today most gun folks remember only the junker $9.95 RG-10, but they did make a couple of half decent guns, including some center fire guns. But they were never high quality and usually kept breaking parts. I had the loading gate blow off one of the .22's SA's (I forget which model) when it fired out of time.

I apologize for pulling your chain, but in all honesty I have to advise that you not waste time or money on that gun. I am sure your friend meant well, and you thought you were getting a bargain, but my prediction is that the gun will just keep giving trouble until finally something breaks that can't be fixed.

Sure, in the course of luck, some of them have lasted a long time (every bell curve has its high end), but they were made cheaply and sold cheaply (the .22s were $10-19 when a Ruger auto was $37.50 and a Colt Woodsman was $72). The CF guns went around $25-29. We didn't make a lot of money, but someone did. I was told the factory cost was about 15% of the retail, so the importer was paying under $2 for the cheaper ones. When a customer returned one we couldn't fix (trying to was my job) we gave it to the salesman who threw it in the trash can and gave us a new one. They literally didn't think the guns were worth fixing. My boss, to his credit, tried to honor the store warranty, which was why I got high amounts of frustration trying to make the guns work.

Jim
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Old May 18, 2009, 10:33 PM   #14
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thank you four your time to educate and enlighten me. I appreciate that you would take the time to explain the background and history you have with these weapons, its information that would otherwise go unused. This type of first hand experiance and hands on tech is the hardest to come by and often the most valuble. I was trying to get the other guy to post a pic of his schmidt, i felt from your tone that you wouldn't be caught with such a gun , i on the hand have my hand in the cookie jar and am deciding if its worth the spanking to get a few bites, lol. thank you for your thoughts
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Old May 20, 2009, 11:01 AM   #15
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hmmm

i have one vote crap and one vote great for the acutal gun i have. is it the crap gun or the good model of the crap gun. ??? lol i lost track of the level of gun i have. some threads say its a good gun and then i hear its bunk. where we at here before i start working on my buddy's car in return for a loading gate
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Old May 20, 2009, 02:36 PM   #16
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I would place it at the lower end of the scale, but definitely not "crap"; the German-made RGs were made in Sontheim-Brenz, while the Herbert Schmidts were made in Ostheim; they were two completely different companies. Your revolver should have a machined steel (not die-cast zinc) frame, and if that's the case, I wouldn't see anything wrong with fixing it up.
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Old May 21, 2009, 12:01 AM   #17
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k thats a +1 for the fix up, it is a steel frame, per the gunsmith that looked at it the other day "real big top strap" told me it should take the .357 mag shells without a problem. SDC do you have a tear down procedeure or pics of this gate in its assembled entirety? Ive already chased the ball and spring from the "safety" once. Is this somthing i can breakdown myself or will i get 2 screws in and things start flying accross the room. not that i mind crawling around with a flashlight and magnet lol good info here, SDC have you heard of or seen any other of these pistols recently?
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Old May 21, 2009, 06:46 AM   #18
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It takes down in the same way other SAA copies do, just make sure you take a close look at how it fits together (and take notes or pictures if it helps) as you're disassembling it. The mechanism is pretty simple. I've seen a number of these guns here in Canada, but I don't know how many were imported to the US. I'm sure you'll be able to find the part you need sooner or later, it just might take a while.
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Old May 21, 2009, 11:53 AM   #19
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ive never taken one apart before, first pistol for me. wish me luck!
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Old May 28, 2009, 02:29 AM   #20
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still on the picture hunt if anybody has any always greatly appreciated
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Old June 14, 2009, 12:43 AM   #21
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the broken has been repaired

update, ive taken the gun about with me in my roaming and had everybody that wanted to take a look at it. brought it to a friend who broke the eye off the loading gate! then he did the implausible he made a new gate on the spot. an amateur gun smith he has some skills from high school shop classes and making things for his ak just whipped out a gate from some aluminum stock and ill be dammed if it doesn't work great.!! thank you greg you bad a$$ you i can send pics if sombody wants to post them. ugly but it works!
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Old August 22, 2009, 04:59 PM   #22
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Herters 121 S

My dad gave me one of these. It is an excellent gun. I don't know about getting parts but I love it. Not only is it an but it is quite functional. heirloom. I really hope you can get yours repaired as it is a fun gun to shoot.

Good luck!

-Cheers
Erik
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Old December 7, 2010, 12:21 PM   #23
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Schmidt Ostheim Help

Hi there. Over here in Germany we still own a lot of these ancient Herbert Schmidt guns. Parts are no longer available, but we use to help ourselves by adapting other gun's parts on them. The frames and the loading gate of these revolvers are made of a zinc-aluminum alloy which means that welding is impossible. If you unscrew the back strap and then the trigger guard by yourself (but be careful not to damage the screws), you should find a small screw underneath the loading gate on the right side in the frame bottom. Drive it out and normally a short spring and a little bolt should fall out. Take care not to loose them. Ig they are missing, replace them by a piece of a siple nail that fits into the hole by correct diameter and use a custom fitted spring of a ballpen - that'll do. Then you can pull out the loading gate. Sometimes loading gates from Colt, Pietta, Hege-Uberti or Ruger do fit almost perfectly. Put all back together and have fun with a good revolver. Cheap but reliable. Collector's Prices increase for these guns and some of them in good condition are priced over 600 Euros (about 450 $)
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Old December 8, 2010, 02:45 PM   #24
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I have a buddy that just used one as the base gun for a 10 shot 22 revolver... the gun ( originally in 357 mag ) was in a fire, & the cast alloy gate was gone, but the iron parts still there, but out of any temper they may have had, I got him a new Ruger blackhawk gate, & he was able to modify that to fit ( alot of Rugers parts are very reasonably priced ), he made a new 10 chamber 22 cylinder, & rebarreled with a chunk of used 22 rifle barrel, then made his own grips... now he has almost nothing but time into the gun, & has a unique 10 shot full sized single action revolver in 22 LR

wish I had his skills... but glad to have him working on my stuff...
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Old April 10, 2011, 08:33 AM   #25
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Another Schmidt 357

I bought one of these Schmidt 357s at a flea market yesterday for $20. It was sold to me as a paperweight, basically. The guy stated it needed parts and it wasn't worth fixing. I bought it anyway, with the thought of making it into a lamp.

Besides the obvious broken/missing gate assembly, the cylinder rotated freely and the hand didn't work. I found the pin holding the hand assembly to the hammer was sheared off so I made a new one. One problem solved.

As to the cylinder rotating freely, I found the trigger/bolt spring to be broken. I fitted a little piece of bobby pin in there and the cylinder now indexes correctly. I know this was a 'duct tape' fix and a new spring is available for $10. I'd like to pursue the gate issue before even spending the $10 on a spring though.

Interesting that a Ruger gate was able to be modified to fit. Can you elaborate on which Ruger gate I should buy and how much of a frig it was to make it work?

Thanks for your time.


Last edited by ksdaddy; April 10, 2011 at 08:41 AM.
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