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Old April 20, 2009, 07:36 PM   #1
jammin1237
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Glock Jam?

ok, i will admit i usually dont post to the semi auto hangun forum but here goes....
i have a 92fs which i call old faithful and for good reasons...but what would cause this...
http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/43096777.html


a glock jam?

i have heard countless numerous good things about them and was thinking about getting one, but this is life and death type stuff....


let me hear the sound off! which is better?
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Old April 20, 2009, 07:42 PM   #2
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I can only tell you from my experience - I have 2 glocks and they reliably feed, fire and extract everything I feed them - including range-scrounged miscellaneous brass reloads- every time.......
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Old April 20, 2009, 07:52 PM   #3
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Its difficult to say why the officer's Glock jammed not knowing the condition of the weapon or reading the armorer's report. A Glock like any other weapon can fail. As a general rule, however, they fail less often than just about any other gun.

Having said that I have owned several Glocks including a G22 and a G19 and have never had a failure of any type. A friend of mine likewise has a Glock 21 SF, a G27, and a G23 without a failure of any sort.

I wouldn't let the article referenced prevent you from owning a Glock. If you search the threads you'll find stories of .45 acp loads bouncing off of peoples heads. I guess anything is possible.
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Old April 20, 2009, 07:52 PM   #4
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i am not here to pick on on any make or caliber but when i see this kind of stuff it is a warning sign...

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/43180837.html

has anyone had any probs with aftermarket or stock mags in .40 glocks?

like i said i was planning on getting one, just looking for extra info...........
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Old April 20, 2009, 07:53 PM   #5
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I don't know anything about this shooting scene, the news paper article has no details, but my guess is, either his grip or wrist went limp causing the Glock to misfeed/jam/stove pipe after his first shot.
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Old April 20, 2009, 07:57 PM   #6
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The real question here is "How do we let an individual become a 9-time felon???" We, as a society, have failed...
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Old April 20, 2009, 08:02 PM   #7
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jgcoastie, welcome to my world..
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Old April 20, 2009, 08:08 PM   #8
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My first experience with Glock was in 1993 when I went to work for the Woodlake, California Police Department. One the 3rd round from a Glock 21, the disassembly latch spring broke and sent the barrel/slide downrange.

In the past 15 years, I have personally seen frame failures (fractures through the pin holes) on 3 Glock 22's.

We received a teletype bulletin from Portland Oregon PD regarding two officers injured during a Glock 21 explosion with no difference in felt recoil or report.

LAPD is not too happy with Glock either...

Los Angeles API –

Austrian based firearms company Glock is facing a lawsuit after a Los Angeles Police Officer’s .45 Caliber Glock Model 36 severed his right index finger following a structural failure.

Controversy arose over Glock's safety standards recently when multiple cases of explosive malfunction occurred in Glock pistols sold to police departments in the United States. Upon pulling the trigger, the cartridge case would rupture and cause an explosion that would tear apart the gun and often send shrapnel into the shooter's face.

Similar malfunctions also disqualified the Glock from recent military testing.
The cause of this malfunction was traced to issues with a purposely oversized (loose) and partially unsupported chamber in Glock pistols chambered in .40 S&W, .45 ACP, .357 SIG, and 10mm.

The chamber lacks full support in the rear by the feed ramp in order to facilitate feed reliability. The lack of support in the chamber, would cause the case to fail. The subsequent rapid expansion of hot gas into the handgrip caused the pistols to fail, damaging the polymer frame and often blowing out the magazine.

Glock, in its own defense, says that in every manual that comes with their pistols there are instructions informing the shooter of the dangers of using high velocity ammunition, and that if the shooter uses factory loaded, jacketed ammuntion and makes sure to properly clean and care for their firearm, the firearm will function safely.

Glock maintains their innovative design is safe and durable, yet they go on record to state that the use of factory loaded ‘+P’ ammunition will almost certainly cause a structural failure. Many police agencies issue +P ammunition as the standard duty load, but catastrophic failures have been reported with standard pressure ammunition.

In the case of the L.A.P.D. officer, the gun and the ammunition have been sent to Glock pending an investigation. The ammunition used was Federal 230 Grain Hydra-Shock; a widely used and reputable factory, standard pressure load.

White Laboratories in Los Angeles examined the pistol prior to it being sent to Glock for inspection. Their report states: “Case failures are common even in reputable, commercial grade ammunition. In a weapon with a fully supported chamber, the case usually cannot rupture since it is fully enclosed in the chamber. However, with the Glock’s unsupported chamber, a case failure is a constant threat. The polymer frame simply offers the shooter no protection from the blast.”

There continues to be controversy over the presence of an unsupported chamber with industry critics arguing that it is not necessary from a design standpoint and is a liability for the company.
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Old April 20, 2009, 08:09 PM   #9
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"The real question here is "How do we let an individual become a 9-time felon???" We, as a society, have failed..."

Poor aim?
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Old April 20, 2009, 08:10 PM   #10
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Among Glocks, the .40s seem to be less reliable than the 9s. That said, I've had FTF in my Glock 17 when it was new. And I've had light strikes in my Glock 34 and watched novice shooters limp wrist it. My Glock 23 has been more reliable. YMMV.

Stovepipes seem to be more likely a magazine problem, which might be why the Milwaukee PD is replacing their magazines.

Glocks are fine guns, but they are not perfect -- nothing made by man is.
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Old April 20, 2009, 09:26 PM   #11
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I agree with M1911, the 9mm Glocks are reportedly the most reliable and trouble free, and personally I'd stay away from the .40 cal Glocks. I was recently contemplating getting a G22, and after another round of research it seems that Glock is still having intermittent trouble with its .40 cal Glocks (weapon light induced jams, strange double feeds or extractor bounce type jams, etc.). The chances of getting a problem free one might be good, but like I said there are still documented issues. The G17 seems to have reached classical status, and with good reason. The same can be said of the G19.
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Old April 20, 2009, 09:31 PM   #12
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Out of a little over 10K rounds my G19 has only "jammed" once....that's when I found out I had loaded a .380 into the mag.
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Old April 20, 2009, 09:41 PM   #13
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Maybe I got really really lucky...

Neither of my Glocks (G22 and G20SF) have had any issue from day one...

However I did replace the factory barrels with ones from EFK... I suspect that may have helped matters... But I bought my G22 from a guy that swore up and down that it was a terrible gun, not accurate and jammed at least once every dozen rounds... I couldn't believe what I was hearing so I bought the gun... Cleaned it (I've never seen a filthier gun, it was disgusting), took it to the range and put 250 rounds of Remington UMC through it without a single hitch or hiccup... Replaced the barrel with an EFK and did the same thing... Again; no problems... I haven't been disappointed with it's accuracy either, the little copper-colored thingy makes a hole where I'm pointing it... What more do you need?

Found out later that he was trying to shoot some of his "buddy's" reduced powder 'target' loads... Explains the jamming... The accuracy I blame on operator error...
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Old April 20, 2009, 09:50 PM   #14
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I guess there's always a lemon in bunch. My first Glock was a G19. It was not very reliable at all. It was rare to get through one box of FMJs without at least 2 or 3 failures to feed. This was the same with JHPs as well. Sent it to factory twice, had nearly all the innards replaced, and it would still malfunction no matter what ammo I used. Every other Glock, including my G23, behaved exactly the opposite, utterly reliable.
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Old April 21, 2009, 10:47 AM   #15
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My dept issues the Sig226, S&W5946, and Glock19. By far the majority of the malfunctions have been with the Glock including the dreaded phase 3 which only the 19 suffers(special malfunction drills tought to those issued the Glock). You know there is a real world problem when the largest Police Dept in the nation threatens to cancel thier Glock contract and replace it with Ruger, and only then did Glock admit there was a design flaw and spent nearly a year repairing 27,000 pistols(new extractor and recut ejection port I believe).
Outside of Glock bashing, not all cops care for thier weapons like they should(you wouldn't believe what I've seen at the range). Dirty lint filled pistols will jam eventually. Dry guns left in holsters for long periods of time, etc.
Also the dynamics of a actual gunfight will introduce unpredictable variables such as slides catching on loose clothing or other uniform items not used at range training, awkward shooting positions(limp wristing), close contact(fail to return to battery), etc.
I personally had nothing but problems with a G23 and couldn't get through a single mag without a failure of some sort. From that personal experience I don't trust them. Might own one, but will never carry one.
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Old April 21, 2009, 10:48 AM   #16
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As much as I like my Glocks, I've always maintained that their one glaring design deficiency is that they're more susceptible to limpwristing than some other designs. Fact is, you can't always use a "textbook" grip and stance when using a pistol in s.d.

Having said that, I trust my life daily to a G26, and have bought G26s for two of my offspring.
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Old April 21, 2009, 12:54 PM   #17
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Have had my G23 for 5 years with not one malfunction.

By pure numbers, since there's so many Glocks out there, there's going to be more Glock malfunctions. And for every PD or whatever that doesn't like Glocks, there's 5 that uses them.
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Old April 21, 2009, 06:07 PM   #18
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I've never had a single problem with any of the 3 Glocks I own. I have had them for over 7 years. There is a reason his Glock jammed. I only read about Glocks jamming on the internet. I have never seen one happen in real time at the range. Never.
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Old April 21, 2009, 06:07 PM   #19
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Glock

I've owned several Model 23's, and Model 17, 19, 22 (more than one of each). I've fired many rounds of anything that will fit in the magazine. I've had zero malfunctions with factory ammo of any type. Their MAY be a problem with people hanging shi* on the end of the pistol ie lights, lasers, etc. There are threads that indicate these may make Glocks jam. I don't know, as I wouldn't do such a thing, and think it a fad. Police increasingly are putting lights on their duty weapon. I don't really know why. There have been pistols and flashlights for many, many years (I'd guess well over 80 years). Yet only recently sticking a several ounce weight on the end of your pistol, has become the norm. I guess those that thought it foolish in the FBI and other Agencies years ago have learned better. I still don't have any desire to do it, and I think pistols with rails are quite ugly.
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Old April 21, 2009, 06:21 PM   #20
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Murphy's law. I have a friend who carried a pistol in a paddle holster for years. He practiced all the time, never having a problem. The first time that he had to draw his gun to protect himself guess what, the holster came with him. Who knows what happened to the Glock (colt, springfield, sig, hk,etc) perhaps blood was pouring into it and caused a jam, maybe he was trying to get out of the line of fire, turning and smacking it against his car and hitting the slide stop up. Could be just Mr. Murphy rearing his ugly head. Who knows

Remember 1 is non and 2 is 1.

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Old April 21, 2009, 08:46 PM   #21
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All guns *can* fail. If your life depends on it, you'd better know how to clear a jam. And if you are wise, you have a backup weapon.

That said, I find that my Glock needs grease on the slide. Oil doesn't cut it. I use Tetra gun grease. Apply it, buff it out and repeat. My slide moves like silk and never a stovepipe any more.

It is very much worth watching a 6 minute Clint Smith "tap and rack" video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfyULpEhmug

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Old April 21, 2009, 09:00 PM   #22
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I've been shooting, training, and repairing [Beretta Armorer] for a few years now. Most of the problems that I've seen that are pistol, not user, related have been with the .40 caliber [no brand specific]. That is why I and many others that I've known over the years have preferred 9mm or 45ACP.
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Old April 21, 2009, 09:15 PM   #23
jammin1237
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from what i've read so far, i think i'll stay away from .40 cals... it really bothers me that i'm not reading about how the shiotbags gun failed instead of the good guy's weapon of "choice"...

for now i'll stick to old faithful

thanks for the info!

cheers
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Old April 21, 2009, 09:25 PM   #24
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My Glock 17 has more than 3K rounds down the pipe and never have I encounter any FTF/FTE issues.

However, the range that I used to visit have several rental-glock that were just the Queen-of-Jam.
I was told to stay away from early production (1st~2nd generation) of Glock that's chambered in 40 S&W, there were some issue regarding possible slide fly away from the lower receiver while firing.
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Old April 21, 2009, 10:29 PM   #25
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Sounds like the cop panicked while returning fire and didn't have firm grip of his gun. You shoot a Glock without firmly gripping it, and it won't eject the shell properly.
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