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Old April 20, 2009, 10:55 AM   #26
73-Captain
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"and they offer a superior warranty."

You must be kidding!


The only one you might fool with such a silly statement is yourself or a new reloader who doesn't know better.

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Old April 20, 2009, 10:59 AM   #27
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Perhaps you might explain yourself better?
A lot better?
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Old April 20, 2009, 11:18 AM   #28
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never mind

I found out, after tracking through your prior 130 (often condescending and argumentative) posts, why you (still) hate me LOL.

I pooped on your favorite cartridge AND I don't drink Colt koolaid

That's okay. Maybe someday we'll meet at a USPSA match and find out we're alike, mostly.




I have had similar excellent warranty results with numerous other brands, too, except LEE.
But I often recommend beginners buy a pair of LEE Reloader presses.



I have no brand bias except to Caspian.
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Old April 20, 2009, 01:29 PM   #29
David Wile
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Hey Dan,

I wouldn't want to spend $189 for a Lee press of any type when I could buy a used RCBS Junior or RockChucker for $100 or less. And I cannot agree with those who say get a progressive right away. Progressives are expensive and difficult for many people to learn to use properly. If you start out with a single stage press and then find you want a progressive, you will always have a need for your single stage press to do the many jobs that do not lend themselves to be done on a progressive.

Yes, I do have a progressive press and several single stage presses. In fact, I also have several progressive shotshell presses along with several single stage shotshell presses.

There will always be work to do on a single stage press, and learning on a single stage press is the best way to transition to learning how to use a progressive press.

Best wishes,
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Old April 20, 2009, 01:41 PM   #30
bro2
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Hey, My wife just gave me the go on $600! Should I get a progressive?
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Old April 20, 2009, 02:08 PM   #31
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Hey Bro2,

Do you need a progressive? Do you just want a progressive? Do you or your family need something else more than you need or want a progressive?

I will admit that when I bought my progressive metallic press nearly 15 years ago, I did not need a progressive. I wanted a progressive for many years, but I waited until my kids were out of college and I thought I could afford to indulge my "want" for a progressive even though I did not "need" it.

You have to make your own decision whether you should get a progressive.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile
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Old April 20, 2009, 03:34 PM   #32
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Bro2,

I don't know what volume you are shooting? I have a friend who started on a progressive (though he had learned basics on a manually indexed turret press at my house). He is someone who wanted the economy of reloading but isn't interested in handloading as a hobby at all. He looks at it the way he looks at setting up targets: its another chore necessary to getting to shoot. So his strategy has been to achieve the highest volume per hour, period. He got a Dillon 1050 with all the accessories and has never looked back. He just stayed on the phone with Dillon until he had it working (necessary since he is not mechanically inclined to the degree most gun cranks are—probably why handloading doesn't appeal to him as a hobby).

So, it can be done. As suggested earlier, the Dillon 550B is easily used as a single-stage press. I have done that many times, using just one station for one odd operation or another when I was doing the rest on my Forster Co-ax. It might be the best place to start if you are going the progressive route? The manual indexing does not significantly impede speed.

If you go with the progressive, leave enough money for a scale, a vibratory case cleaner, and a caliper, not to mention the primers, bullets and powder (harder to get these days). The scale is necessary to set powder charges. The Lee works, but is a bit slow to settle and people complain about it being easy to set incorrectly. But about any scale, including that inexpensive Lee, will work if you only need to use it to check charges once in a while. One easy trick is to use that inexpensive scale, but cut pieces of stainless wire that equal the weight of your powder charge and use them to check the scale setup before checking the powder measure again.
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Old April 22, 2009, 01:59 AM   #33
bro2
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I have some friends that I shoot with that will buy alot of rounds from me so I thought a progressive would be the thing to have. Looking at the Hornady Lock-N-Load.
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Old April 22, 2009, 02:52 AM   #34
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IMO

A Lee 3 hole turret press (unless you use a FCD, then get 4 hole) is good because once you set up the dies for your round, yo leave them all set up. If you decide to load another caliber, you buy another turret and leave that set up too.

A good cheap press to learn the art, once you have the hang of it, if you are reloading enough quantity, you can think about a progressive.... but if you are only loading 100 or two a week, the lee will get you out of trouble for ages
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Old April 22, 2009, 03:59 AM   #35
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Best press for a beginner who wants to load .45ACP is the Dillon 550B. That way you'll forgo the experience of taking 4 times as long to load a batch of ammo on a silly single stage, and you'll already have the press you're going to upgrade to, anyway. Of course, there are other good progressive presses to choose from, also.

But none with a warranty like Dillon that replaces broken or warn parts free of charge in two days with no questions asked.

But, unlike me and thousands of others, when we were young whippersnappers, you have to be forward thinking enough to see that in the first place.

Last edited by Nnobby45; April 22, 2009 at 04:04 AM.
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Old April 22, 2009, 06:15 AM   #36
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I see some are jumping right to the 550B. While it is a great press one of the best progressive on the market I personaly don't think it is for begginers.

You stated that you want a single stage press to start out with.

RCBS reloader special is a good low cost press. The Rockchucker is a beast and will last you for ever.

Redding makes good presses as well they cost more than others.

I am not a fan of lee products. Lyman also makes some good presses.

If all your reloading is 45acp I would look at a turret press.

If you buy a quality press it will last more than a life time.

My dad is still loading on a single stage Hollywood press that his father bought almost 60 years ago.

I have a RCBS Reloader Special and a Dillon 550B. My RCBS is small and still weighs almost #10. All you have to do is invest in quality equipment and take care of it.

I don't like lee because everything I ever owned that was lee either broke within 30 minutes of normal use or didn't work from the factory.

I bought a lee hand primer and 6 cases into my first reloading session it snapped in half. My brother had a lee press that 30 minutes after he starting using it again snapped in half. He was reloading 222 rem not a whole lot of force involved in reloading that. I had a set of universal shell holders from lee. They didn't fit but 25% of my brass the other 75% you had to beat with a hammer to get them in or out. I am sorry this is not my idea of quality products.
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Old April 22, 2009, 04:37 PM   #37
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Quote:
I see some are jumping right to the 550B. While it is a great press one of the best progressive on the market I personaly don't think it is for begginers.
A beginning handloader can follow instructions and learn to use it as long as they aren't a beginner in following instructions in general. There's even a video that makes things even simpler.

There's nothing wrong with a beginner starting with a single stage, but I reject the idea that a beginner wouldn't feel the 550B is for him.

I prefer the RCBS RockChucker for loading rifle ammo since precision rather than high production is the goal. It would be fine for loading some pistol ammo not needed in high volume.

If one went with the RCBS single stage, the extra camming power of the RockChucker wouldn't be necessary and one could get the RCBS Junior--unless one had the insight to consider the possibility of loading for rifle, as well at some point.

But to start loading for .45ACP opens up a new world where, eventually, the shooter is likely to be loading for other calibers as well, and the slow speed of the single stage isn't acceptable if one shoots quite a bit. When you figure in the expense of the other equipment needed for reloading, the extra cost of the progressive (which precludes the added expense of the initial single stage) would prove more economical in the end.
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Old April 22, 2009, 05:42 PM   #38
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Hey Nnobby45,

You can reject any ideas you like, but that does not make you correct in your assumptions. CPTMurdoc's opinions and idea come from what I would guess is a fair amount of experience. Your statements come from what I would guess is a rather limited amount of experience. I may not have had the exact same experience as CPTMurdoc has written, but I find my experience has been fairly close to what he has written.

If you want to own and fly an airplane, I am sure you can buy and start taking lessons in a big multi engined jet. However, I can assure you that most folks start learning to fly in a single engine airplane before they move on up to bigger stuff. Funny, but that seems to be the view the military takes in teaching their pilots to fly.

In the case of an airplane, you probably would sell your Cessna 152 once you have decided to move up to a Cessna 172 or other bigger plane. Unless, of course, you had some real need for your 152. In the case of reloading presses, a reloader will always have a need for a single stage press even when he also has a progressive.

Reject whatever you want. It is your right, but I feel sorry for so many of the newer folks who jump right into progressive machines without learning about the craft of reloading. I don't suppose I could ever get you interested in loading cartridges with a Lyman 310 Nutcracker? No, I suppose not. You would probably never understand the joy of a Nutcracker.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile
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Old April 23, 2009, 01:51 AM   #39
73-Captain
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I have had similar excellent warranty results with numerous other brands...

Weshoot, perhaps if you had posted this comment instead of proclaiming the false superiority of the RCBS warranty over all others, you would not have had to have the tantrums you posted in #27 and #28.

C.
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Old April 23, 2009, 04:29 AM   #40
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If you have little or no reloading equipment, start with one of the Kits

http://www.grafs.com/product/230719

http://www.grafs.com/product/237820

http://www.grafs.com/product/239569

get down the basics and move on to the dillon
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Old April 23, 2009, 04:47 AM   #41
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Bro2, You're now suggesting a turret press, perhaps even a progressive. I don't have the Lyman turret but I do have a Simplex Master turret which is modelled on the Redding. It is a big, strong heavy and precise press. It is also the press I use the least. Just doesn't work for me.
Then you talk about a progressive because your friends will buy lots of ammo from you. Have you considered the legal ramifications of this. I wouldn't do this in Australia for "profit" and the USA is a much more litigious country. I suspect you would also need some sort of licence in some states.
A real progressive is not the press to learn the art of reloading on. It will quickly become a source of frustration because the littlest learning error is quickly magnified.
Despite what the manufacturers say about changing calibers, true progressives are best left set up for a single cartridge just like an earlier poster said, so that when you need a few hundred (or thousands) of rounds, you just turn on the radio, get comfortable and go for it. A progressive doesn't really shine if you are still fiddling with load development and the like.
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Old April 23, 2009, 05:04 AM   #42
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Probably shouldn't buy into the RCBS warranty argument but having had recent experience with them here goes.

RCBS warranty service is variable, sometimes great, no arguments just do what it takes to fix your problem. Other times they want you to ship them the offending part to check you haven't screwed up or trying one on them.

Bad enough if you live in the USA, hopelessly uneconomic if you are in another country.

Getting through to RCBS at present is something to test your patience. You need to be able to place your phone on speaker and go and do something else while you wait for about an hour, that is if the phone answers at all. At least it is a freecall in USA, I went through the value of an international phone card while waiting to speak to someone.

It has been suggested that these delays are because of the huge increase in numbers of people buying reloading gear for the first time and the subsequent demands on service/product questions. I'm not sure that is the real reason. I suspect the problem with RCBS is that much of their production is now outsourced to China and that the quality of their product has fallen so dramaticaly that people are actually needing to use the terms of the warranty. That is why I have needed to contact them recently. New products that were faulty or broke in the first few hours of use. Disappointing.
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Old April 23, 2009, 05:14 AM   #43
bro2
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Well everyone. I took the plunge and bought a Hornady lock-n load progressive. a dealer had one on ebay got it for $439 shipped ,got to order dies now!
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Old April 23, 2009, 05:52 AM   #44
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Lots of good advice

Bro2, I think the main pitfalls of going straight to a you beaut progressive press, is that it is so critical to get everything right with handloading.... and when one jumps in with both feet and buys the best, fastest press, without the experience gained from loading one by one (or in 100's like I do... I tumble all, then de prime and size all, then flare & charge all, then LOOK to see the charge is at the same(ish) level (no doubles or misses) then I place the projectiles on all, then seat & crimp all) Without this basic skill aquasition, it is easy to stuff up a whole run on a progressive (very quickly) Example, if the powder thrower blocks up, or doesnt dispense the right amount of powder, you never get to see before the projectile is on & you might not realise till the next one you check Or the primers might stop or might not be seated properly, just for example, and you might not notice til there are 10 not right, then you have to 'back track' anyway.

My way is the slow way, but I only reload about 150 - 200 rounds a week (.44 mag) and will be 9x19 soon.... but I cant justify the $ to go progressive, and I do enjoy doing it as I am.

Seems to be, the people who have the MOST trouble with reloads, are the ones who use progressive presses for short runs. From my experience (friends with progressives) have had primer tubes blow up (rare) odd primers in backwards or not seated properly & irregular powder charges. Most of these guys only do short runs, occasionally (maybe load 300 a fortnight or so) Progressives, IMO are best if you are reloading by the 1000+. Progressives set up correctly and doing longer runs are great, but if you are only doing 200 for example, it seems like overkill to me. From watching friends do a couple of hundred progressively, seems to me, they are just getting into "the swing of things" and the run is over. Then they check all primers are in and weigh a fair few (especially the earlier of the run) to make sure none are too heavy (doubles) or to light (misses)

Mine take twice as long, but are always spot on. I also spread the work out, like when I get back from the range, I chuck the cases in the tumbler for about 6 hours (timer) Then I deprime/size... takes about 20 minutes for 200 or so. Then that evening, or another day, I hand prime inside while watching TV or cruising the net..... So I always have primed cases (in sealed plastic containers) on hand. The next day, I might flare and charge (I actually use a felt wad on top of the powder) and sit on the projectiles by hand (just to 'plug the hole')..... sometimes, these go back in the container till the next day. Next time I go in my bunker, I just seat and crimp, then inspect. So yes, slow, yes accurate, yes not as cool as pumping them out by the bucketload, but it is all I need and I just can't/dont want to justify spending $700 (here in Oz) to have a cool gadget to shorten (?) the time I enjoy reloading such a small amount of ammo.

I still say a 3 or 4 hole non indexing turret is the way to go... learn the processes & I bet you will be happy with this decision for ages... like the others said, even if you do go progressive later, you can always find a use for your basic press. I have accumulated 4 other single stage presses and use 2 of them constantly, to save interrupting my main one.

I am not putting poop on people who love their progressives... to each their own.... Just my humble opinion.... save some money by just going turret, then buy some more guns instead
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Old April 23, 2009, 09:11 AM   #45
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" I am considering going with a Lee classic turrent kit from Cabela's. $189. What about the T-Mag by lyman?"

Don't do the T-Mag. I have it's predecessor and rarely use it. Good press BUT it added nothing to my reloading speed.

All ANY "conventional" type turret press can really do is be a funny looking single stage that stores dies. It's difficult and expensive to the point of being practically impossible to "swap" turret heads on a Lyman or Redding or RCBS.

Only the Lee and Dillion presses have easily swapped turret heads for simple caliber switches. Only the Lee heads are inexpensive enough to have as many as you may eventually want. And, if you ever expect to load for more than one cartridge, get a bench stand for your powder measure instead of trying to use it in the turret.

Dingo is right, a progressive of any brand is NOT a good way to learn reloading. There is so much to learn all at once it would be like trying to drink from a fire hose!

Lee's Classic turret is not a true progressive press but it's still pretty fast when you learn how and when to use its auto advance mechanism. The auto-index turret advancing system is easy to disable so you can/should use it as a single stage tool to learn on. After you learn step and have the die adjustments for it well mastered, after hundreds if not thousands of rounds, you will want to reactivate the auto indexing device for more speed. YOU will know when you are ready to do that!

+++++

Okay, I just now read the previous few posts and see that you've already gone to the Hornady system. Well ... I'll leave this for any others who may benefit from it.

Last edited by wncchester; April 23, 2009 at 09:41 AM.
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Old April 23, 2009, 12:53 PM   #46
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Congrats on the Hornady. I have never used one but hear a lot of good things about them.
Quote:
I have some friends that I shoot with that will buy alot of rounds from me so I thought a progressive would be the thing to have.
Do yourself a favor and get that thought out of your head, very bad idea especially for a new reloader.

Rusty
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Old April 23, 2009, 01:05 PM   #47
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I am a electronics tech, built hot rods when I was younger. It might take me a little while. I will take it slow at first, eventually I will get it.
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Old April 23, 2009, 01:10 PM   #48
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You need to buy what you feel is a comfortable press. All of them do the main thing that you are looking for and that is press a d@^m bullet in its case. You can do the single stage type and prime all your cases by hand or you have the progressive type that will do the de-prime, priming, powder measure, press and crimp. The main thing is to take it slow no matter which way you go until you have reloading down pat. I have shooting buddies that reload a lot more rounds than I do a week by using a single stage press and I have both. That is mainly because I do more gun work than reloading but they still out do what I can muster in my spare time to do on my progressive press. So it only matters to the individual that is reloading on what type to buy for their use, everybody will have their favorite brand or style of press that they like it's individual taste.
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Old April 23, 2009, 02:29 PM   #49
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Hey DAVID WILE...

Maybe you should learn how to read my posts a little better. I NEVER said that I paid $189 for the Lee Turret Press. what I said and what I GOT for $189 included the Following.

Lee Turret Press KIT...
Lee 4 Die 9mm Set...
Lee 4 Die .40 Cal Set...
Extra 4-Hole Turret...
Oh yeah and that price included shipping that took 3 days, From WI. I live in CA. SO now with what I got for $189.. I can reload (2) calibers and be happy with that.

So before you start trash talking and what you can get and this that and the other.. Make you sure you dont make yourself look like a fool. I am new to reloading and I went with Lee for a couple different reasons and to tell you the truth, I dont regret my decision one bit so it really shouldnt matter what you think, when it is MY MONEY.

The thread is here for people to give thier opinion on what they think is a GOOD beginner press. It is not here for guys like you totrash talk about what other peoples opinions are. That is what is wrong with half the people on this Forum, all they do is run thier mouth and not even try to help the New guys that want to take interest in the Hobby of Reloading. It is to each thier own and that is the good thing about life. THERE ARE MANY CHOICES... Dont rag on someone else for them making a choice that YOU dont like.
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Old April 23, 2009, 04:51 PM   #50
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Quote:
I wouldn't want to spend $189 for a Lee press of any type when I could buy a used RCBS Junior or RockChucker for $100 or less.
The only difference is the RCBS is a bare bones press for that price, the Lee turret is a kit at that price and includes everything including dies. The RCBS will also be 3 to 4 times slower, not a lot of fun when loading pistol. I don't know about the other Lee presses but the Classic presses are well built and very solid.

Quote:
I am new to reloading and I went with Lee for a couple different reasons and to tell you the truth, I don't regret my decision one bit so it really shouldnt matter what you think, when it is MY MONEY.
Dan I agree. I have been using the classic turret for three years and it has been rock solid and never had a problem. I load four calibers and shoot competition and at a rate of 200 rounds per hour the classic meets my needs no problem. I have loaded on a friends Dillon 550 and while it was a very nice press I don't see the need to upgrade. I also don't regret my decision.

Rusty
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