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Old April 13, 2009, 06:16 PM   #1
Doggieman
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How to train for 3 simultaneous head shots at sea?

Seriously, does anybody know how those SEALs put 3 bullets in 3 heads at 75 feet at sea, and when it appears from what I've read that one of the pirates was in the cabin (thru-window shot?).. all at the same time? At night?

I'm curious.
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Old April 13, 2009, 06:26 PM   #2
kraigwy
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Just like you train for everything else, YOU PRACTICE.

The boat rolls, You and your rifle roll with it. Its timing, timing you only get from practice.

Watch the Sniper Compititions on the Military channel. Its quite interesting what these people do.

Another fun thing its two baloons floating arount at 300 yards, one is the bad guy, one is the hostage. With a bit of practice you can judge the flow of the baloons and fire as it gets ready to float through your cross hairs.

I've taught several sniper schools, its not really hard once the shooter catches on.

Its timing, timing you get from practice.
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Old April 13, 2009, 06:29 PM   #3
Doggieman
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and how do they all shoot at the same time?

Are they hooked up by radio and one guy goes, "Ok I can take a shot" the second guy goes "Uh hold on mine went behind something" etc etc.

Seems like all the stars would have to align for that to happen. And humans can be unpredictable. Suppose one pirate sneezes right as you're about to pull the trigger and his head bobs all over the place.

And what kind of scopes do they use? And what kind of sniper rifles? Ammo? reloads?
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Old April 13, 2009, 06:32 PM   #4
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I have no doubt all three had radio headsets so they could communicate with each other and the team leader/spotter.

When the 'go' signal went, the leader could have said, "On my count of 3 fire. One, Two, Three...". Or he could have said, "fire at will'.

And I also have no doubt they had more than one team so one set could rest while the other team kept their scopes ready.

They also could have split the shots. Right shooter aim for the one on the right, middle aim for the one in the middle, etc...

They had good co-ordination and THEY COULD SHOOT!

Well done SEALS.
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Old April 13, 2009, 06:58 PM   #5
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We were talking about that at work last week. My immediate response to HEARING (not seeing, this is important) that hey were on a "life raft" was why they didn't just snipe the pirates. I now realize that it was a covered raft, entirely different than what I was visualizing.

Still, the first response from my friend was that sniping off a boat into another boat would be fairly difficult. I rolled my eyes and said "there's an obvious fix for that" and as I knew would be the case, my incredibly intelligent friend (that's no sarcasm, this guy seems to know EVERYTHING and it's a privilege picking his brain) knew what I was hinting at and replied "gyroscopics". In otherwords, a gyroscopic platform to shot from.

There's been no word of that so I can only assume they did it old school. Incredibly impressive and incredibly proud of them.

I will say that I am surprised at the pirate reaction. They're apparently very stupid when they should be just "forgetting the whole thing". Well, its their lives they're playing with.
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Old April 13, 2009, 06:59 PM   #6
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I'm thinking you'd want 2 guys aiming at each pirate, total of 6 guys. That way if one misses then the other takes him out real quick.

That's how they hunt big game in africa. The guide lines up a shot and if he doesn't see the animal drop immediately after you fire, he finishes it off with (hopefully) one extra shot.
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Old April 13, 2009, 07:07 PM   #7
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The signal may have been for simultaneous engagement on radio command; or engage target 2 and 3 on the report of the shot for target 1. Might have been engage first target at first opportunity and then terminate additional threats immediately. There are too may 'might haves' to say with any certainty what happened, and the folks who know aren't saying for obvious reasons- op sec. What is not speculation is that our military has fine young folks in all branches, with SPECWAR folks who train for any and all engagements. God bless them all. We can be thankful they are willing to accept these missions and that they have the skill, bravery and determination to emerge victorious.

Night vision optical sights and/or momentary illumination would solve the 'darkness' problem and the 'rolling seas' matter has been addressed.

You can still do pretty good 'night/moving target work' with quality conventional optics and good training. When I was involved in LE sniper stuff, we hung a 2 liter bottle in a shoot house, suspended from the ceiling on a 3 foot cord. A mag light in the corner was the only illumination available to the designated marksman, set up on a pitch black hillside, 100 yards away. On radio command a brave soul in the shoot house would give the bottle a hard swing and then run like hell over the side berm. On his clearance, the DM would engage the bottle as it swung, through a 2x2 foot 'window'. A 'hostage' dummy (we could never get anyone to volunteer for that job- dang sissies) sat about a foot off from where the bottle would be if it weren't swinging. Our better shooters got to the point they could routinely bust the bottle as it swung- and one shot was all you got.

Never underestimate the effectiveness of a well trained and committed individual, with a good rifle in his hands. Folks fitting that description are precisely the reason we are free.
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Old April 13, 2009, 08:07 PM   #8
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I hear now the three kidnappers were kids. That is 15 or so year olds with no real training. The leader was on the Bainbridge.

Still don't matter. Kid with an AK, that has been brought up in such a place as Somilli, well no doubt they are cold blooded killers. Not real skilled, but still killers.

I also suspect the AK went off by accident. To bad, so sad.
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Old April 13, 2009, 08:13 PM   #9
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Old April 13, 2009, 08:15 PM   #10
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I wonder what kind of rifles and in what caliber did these snipers used?
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Old April 13, 2009, 10:56 PM   #11
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LOL Hirlau
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Old April 13, 2009, 11:15 PM   #12
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Probably the tried and true, "on you marks, get set, GO!"
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Old April 14, 2009, 12:11 AM   #13
JohnH1963
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I think everyone has it wrong on this scenario.

Do you really believe all 3 of the guys were up and about? Where is the video of the shooting incident? There are videos of these types of shootings all the time by the US military on youtube.

This happened at night so the most likely scenario was that 1 or more of the pirates was resting while the others were sitting down. What is the likelihood that all were standing up in the middle of the night on a small raft that is bobbing up and down on the ocean?

The shots were probably made using night-vision equipment. The raft was being towed by the ship and it was only 20-30 yards away.

We will never know truly what happened...
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Old April 14, 2009, 03:02 AM   #14
Doggieman
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here's a pretty good article in Slate that explains how it might be done:

http://www.slate.com/id/2216031
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Old April 14, 2009, 06:17 AM   #15
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Maybe there were 9 guys firing at the same time.
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Old April 14, 2009, 06:35 AM   #16
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SEAL training? In addition to Sleeping, Eating And Lifting, training involves beach volleyball, proper sunglasses selection and trying to get your resume and headshot to the right casting director.

Dog, they go to school and practice not until they get it right, but until they cannot get it wrong.
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Old April 14, 2009, 01:41 PM   #17
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There are plenty of Seals at the gun store and show - you can ask them.
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Old April 14, 2009, 03:10 PM   #18
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Good Day for the USA

While some of the more specific details may never come out, we know all we need to know: Seals 3, BG 0.

Just some brave young Americans - and fine soldiers - keeping us free. Doing their jobs especially well in the middle of the night. Apparently they starting slowly reeling in the tow line, brought them in to about 40 yards or so. That's reason # 1 for 3 headshots at sea. Aside from the Seals being excellent riflemen and generally accomplished snipers (reason # 2) and all-around tough hombres. And of course they were using nightscopes of one variety or another (reason # 3).

The next time we have the opportunity, we should each buy a couple of beers for an American service man or woman. And tell them simply, thank you for what you do. I doubt if they hear it enough.
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Old April 14, 2009, 03:17 PM   #19
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Quote:
I'm thinking you'd want 2 guys aiming at each pirate, total of 6 guys. That way if one misses then the other takes him out real quick.

That's how they hunt big game in africa. The guide lines up a shot and if he doesn't see the animal drop immediately after you fire, he finishes it off with (hopefully) one extra shot.
I can't imagine they do this. Maybe if they shot at the same time but no way they do it like you say they hunt big game in Africa. Far too many variables changing in that split second.
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Old April 14, 2009, 03:20 PM   #20
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Having two shooters per target is a tactic used when there is intervening material, such as glass. The slight difference in reaction times allows one round to take out the glass before the other round reaches it.
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Old April 14, 2009, 04:07 PM   #21
kraigwy
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Back to the original question, training for shooting from a boat:

Years ago, I was the company comander of C Co. 2/297th Inf. Alaska National Guard. This company consisted of Alaska Natives (Eskimos). The Company Headquarters was at Shishmarif, on the Berring Sea, and the company consisted of four other villages, Brevig Mession, Tellar, Wales, and Little Dimede.

These people lived mostly off the sea, fishing and hunting. I went out several times in little boats hunting seals. You shoot those little suckers while bobbing around in a boat, normally all you get a shot at is their little heads. You have to kill them or they would sink and you'd loose them.

You'd be suprise, as I mentioned in my earlier post on this topic how with a bit of practice and timing you can get where you can hit those little suckers.

I dont mean to be little the Seals in the Rescue opperation. Which the way I understand it, started with a water jump and having to swim (or rubber raft to the ship and sneak on. Then the corranated attack to pop all three badguys at once. Water jumps are the most fun part of airborne operations. We had to do a water landing twice a year. Seems I always caught a cold.

I've worked with SEAL teams when I was in a SF Unit. Those guys are impressive, if not a bit crazy.
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Old April 14, 2009, 05:53 PM   #22
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I am very proud of our Navy. I think the shots very pretty simple. The hard part was pulling the towed vessel to calm waters and realing it in to within 25 meters. Those pirates must have been absolute morons. I doubt the world lost a total of 200 IQ points when those three shots rang out.
I feel these were chip shots for the Seals and very doable for anyone who knows their way around a rifle.
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Old April 14, 2009, 05:56 PM   #23
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Quote:
does anybody know how those SEALs put 3 bullets in 3 heads at 75 feet at sea
Your federal tax dollars hard at work...

I too, am very proud of those men. One shot, one kill.

For anyone interested in helping our snipers in uniform, you can donate money and/or equipment at: http://www.americansnipers.org/items.html.

It's a great cause. (I have nothing to do with the site or organization.)

/*tom*/
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Old April 14, 2009, 06:02 PM   #24
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They used rolling airframe projectiles equipped with a Mk1Mod1 "Eyeball" guidance system.
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Old April 14, 2009, 07:05 PM   #25
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Good job, Seals rule.
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