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Old April 9, 2009, 11:10 AM   #1
blatantevil
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DPMS vs. Armalite

I have been investigating price, and quality of different .308 semi automatic rifles, and I think that I have narrowed it down to two rifles: The DPMS Panther LR-308AP4, and the Armalite AR-10 A4. Both have similar prices with the Armalite being $1,557.00(price of the rifle straight from the manufacturer, without mark-up from dealer), and the DPMS being slightly less with $1,264(same price thing as the armalite). The weights also encouraged my interest, with the A4 weighing 9.5 pounds, and the DPMS weighing 8.5 pounds, both empty. I also took into consideration that FNH is bringing out a civilian SCAR rifle, but I don't know when it will be out and what the price will be. HK is also coming out with a .308 rifle, similar in looks to the AR-10 system, but with their signature rolling block system, same prolem as with the SCAR though, I don't know how much it will cost and It is not out yet. I really like the Springfield Armory M1A, but price, and weight make this rifle unsuitable for sporting. I'd like to keep it in the price range of the DPMS, and the Armalite, but I don't relly know what else is out there. If anyone has any advice on a rifle, or experience on either one, please let me know.

for the armalite:
http://http://www.armalite.com/ItemF...0-49488ec48776

and for the DPMS:
http://http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=4854

Thank you, blatantevil.

Last edited by blatantevil; April 9, 2009 at 01:23 PM.
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Old April 9, 2009, 11:25 AM   #2
ihctractor
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I have the DPMS LR308 and am happy with it.
Couple things to consider:
*The DPMS uses standard small pin AR-15 trigger group, so if you want to upgrade the trigger or replace stock parts the options are endless.

*The DPMS uses Stoner style magazines which means you can use mags from DPMS, Remington R25, Stoner SR25, other Stoner variants and aftermarket. The Armalite has a proprietary mag so you're forced to use one of theirs if you can find it.

*The DPMS is not a "cheaper" gun, its just less expensive because of higher production which means you'll have a couple hundred extra dollars to spend on ammo and believe me, you're going to need it
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Old April 9, 2009, 12:37 PM   #3
Bartholomew Roberts
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Quote:
I also took into consideration that FNH is bringing out a civilian SCAR rifle, but I don't know when it will be out and what the price will be.
The SCAR-16S (5.56mm) was released December 2008 with an MSRP of about $2,700. In actual retail sales, the prices I have seen since then have ranged from $4k to $9k. Not sure when the 7.62x51 version will be released; but I wouldn't expect it to be any cheaper and I would expect to wait awhile before it settles down to MSRP.

Quote:
HK is also coming out with a .308 rifle, similar in looks to the AR-10 system, but with their signature rolling block system
The HK MR762 is not a delayed roller lock system. It is a short-stroke gas piston. No idea on price; but I doubt it will be cheap.

On the DPMS vs. Armalite, I think it comes down to the features you want. Both build very accurate rifles and both have had the occasional problem rifle. I know Magpul has announced they will make a PMAG for SR25-type rifles, so that would influence me towards a rifle that takes SR25 mags if I was looking.
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Old April 9, 2009, 01:16 PM   #4
mrray13
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i've shot the armalite ar10, as well as the DPMS version, and love both. i own a armalite m15 midlength, and couldn't be happier.

the fn fnar would also be a good choice, and it's in the same price range. unless you just have to have the ar platform.
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Old April 9, 2009, 01:22 PM   #5
blatantevil
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Thanks for all your help, I have a bushmaster AR-15, and I am pretty happy with it, being that it is a pretty proven system, and parts are easy to find, so I do prefer the AR style. But mostly mrray, it's about weight, and the FN AR is over 13 pounds. The AR-10 rifles I was looking at are nice and solid, but not overly heavy(8.6, and 9.5 respectively).

Also, does anyone have any advice on what length barrel I should get?

And, is there a good way to buy these rifles(out of state, shipped to local dealer), and if not, does anyone think that the dealership will just order one for me and I go pick it up?

Thank you, blatantevil.

Last edited by blatantevil; April 9, 2009 at 01:42 PM.
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Old April 9, 2009, 01:57 PM   #6
longranger
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I believe that 20"-22" one or the other is optimum length for the .308.I would research for the optimum length for the .308 an go with that.Might as well squeeze as much accuracy as you can.
BTW I would choose the Armalite, just for cool factor if nothing else
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Old April 9, 2009, 02:51 PM   #7
RT
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I am saving up to buy this one
http://www.laruetactical.com/pics/OSR/OSR_Sheet.jpg
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Old April 9, 2009, 03:04 PM   #8
blatantevil
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Also, if the stock triggers are not good enough, and easily changed, what aftermarket trigger group would you put on an AR-10 like DPMS?
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Old April 9, 2009, 03:58 PM   #9
longranger
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Go to AR-15.com and read the reviews of about 10 different match triggers specifically for the AR platform.Some so simple you can do it yourself others require a gunsmith.
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Old April 9, 2009, 06:15 PM   #10
Paochow
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What is the wait time for these rifles? Last I had read both Armalite and DPMS were significantly backordered. Some guys are on a 12-16 month wait for the DPMS SASS LRT and other DPMS 308's are just as long

BTW: I have a DPMS SASS and love it. It is by far my most accurate centerfire rifle, capable of one hole groups @100yds with match ammo. It has the JP trigger which I would add to a standard DPMS for a better pull.



Last edited by Paochow; April 9, 2009 at 06:20 PM.
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Old April 9, 2009, 07:30 PM   #11
blatantevil
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Very nice setup there Paochow, but I would like to know how much it weighs, being that mine would be a tactical/hunting rifle. I already have a bushmaster AR-15, as I said, so this rifle would be a .30 cal. for hunting, not just squeezing as much accuracy out of it as possible, as is probably your case, as I can see a very heavy barrel on that rifle.

-blatantevil.
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Old April 9, 2009, 07:42 PM   #12
longcall911
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Love my Panther LR308B. . . haven't shot the Armalite. If you're going to work on modifying the rifle, DPMS normally gets very high marks for phone support. I'm not saying it is better than Armalite. I just haven't heard anything about them.

The bigger question is, which one is available? I beleive there are very, very long waits for both.

/*tom*/
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Old April 9, 2009, 10:01 PM   #13
Erratic
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A couple months ago I was doing the same thing. I saw a DPMS at one gun shop and an armalite at another. After handling both I chose the armalite. It just seemed like a better made rifle to me. The action and safety on the dpms seemed gritty and not precise. The armalite was smooth and clean. I'm no expert on guns, but I know good machinery and if I were to compare them like machines it just seemed the armalite was better quality. Mind you this is AFTER reading many opinions on here about how DPMS is just as good as armalite and how much people like the dpms. It very well may be, but in the end I liked the armalite better. Plus I liked the look of the gun better too. In the end, you probably cant go wrong with either one. Just choose the one you like more. I paid exact MSRP for my armalite. No more. I thanked the gunshop owner for not participating in the price gouging. I got the Ar10a4 rifle. Not the carbine. I'm very happy with it. It's only been to the range once so far but it was a good time.
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Old April 10, 2009, 07:07 AM   #14
Paochow
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The barrel is a heavy weight, but fluted, but the thing still is a pig. It would work for deer stand hunting, but I wouldn't consider doing a walking hunt with it for very long.

My DPMS had some grittiness that was present when new, but after a 50 round break in it was nice and smooth. Just needed some use.

Both are great rifles as Erratic said, the question is how long do you have to wait for them....
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Old April 10, 2009, 09:57 PM   #15
Alaskee
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FNAR weight

Quote:
But mostly mrray, it's about weight, and the FN AR is over 13 pounds.
Actually the FNAR is just under or just over 9 pounds depending on which barrel profile you select.
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Old April 10, 2009, 10:12 PM   #16
sailskidrive
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another option... Fulton Armory

I'm kicking myself right now because about 1.5 years ago I passed up a DPMS .308 w/ a Super Sniper 10x for $999 (used) at a gun show. Actually I had driven my convertible to the show and I was trying to figure out how to get it home since it would not fit in the trunk and the dealer didn't have a box for it. Wouldn't that look sweet, a top down Z4 driving down the interstate with a couple of plastic Wal-Mart bags tied around an assault rifle in the passenger seat? LOL

Anyway, I would buy a Fulton Armory Titan instead. http://fultonarmory.com

They are parts compatible with the DPMS but you get a gun with a better barrel, nicer fit and finish and a hand tuned trigger. I read somewhere that a barrel length of 22" w/ 1:10 twist is optimal for a .308, but Clint from Fulton told me the 18" would be the best all around performer. Their is a link to a very, very long mathematical equation for determining twist rate on their website, I think there may be a barrel length formula too.

You can't go wrong w/ the DPMS though... On a different note isn't it amazing how the AR-10 seems to be resurfacing over the past 2-3 years. It used to be sort of an obscure collector's rifle, now I see them at every gun show. I think I want one and a Titan. Better buy another gun safe. What's even stranger is that the AR-10 spawned off the AR-15 and then someone decided to offer the AR-15 in .308! Full circle. Evolution at it's best!

~Sail

Last edited by sailskidrive; April 10, 2009 at 10:21 PM.
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Old April 10, 2009, 10:23 PM   #17
sailskidrive
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nice...

Paochow... that's a really nice setup you have there. love it!

~Sail
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Old April 10, 2009, 10:42 PM   #18
44 AMP
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Can't help with the price, sorry

Quote:
I really like the Springfield Armory M1A, but price, and weight make this rifle unsuitable for sporting.
But I have to wonder about your comment on the weight. The M14 rifle, as originally issued listed at 8.7lbs. Allowing for variations in weight of the wood stock, lets call it average of 9lbs. This is smack in the middle of the weights of the two rifles you are interested in. So, how is this too heavy for "sporting"?

Trick out the M1A with a different stock, a couple pounds of rails (which have little "sporting" about them, in my view), and the weight will go up a bit.

Personally, I favor the viking answer. If your rifle is too heavy, grow stronger.
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Old April 11, 2009, 07:54 AM   #19
Paochow
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Springfield M1A price

Not to hijack, but I've seen several M1A's in the $1500-1700 range in stock at local shops, so some are still available at "normal" prices.

My M1A was fairly lightweight to start, but one day I left it sitting in an unattended room with this silver thing......


When I came back I had this abomination, which although heavier does have much less muzzle climb and perceived recoil.


Despite having the same barrel length, the DPMS wins hands down in accuracy, however it is an apples to oranges comparo with it having a 3.5-10X scope vs an Eotech.
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Old April 11, 2009, 10:28 AM   #20
mrray13
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jsut checked fn's website...

light barrel versions range from 8pds13oz to 9pds even, depending upon magazine..10 or 20 rders

heavy barrel versions range from 9lbs14oz to 10pd even, again depending upon magazine..see above


so, another one right smack in the middle of your weight wants..
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