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Old April 6, 2009, 06:15 PM   #1
maestro pistolero
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Loaning a gun to a CA resident.

As a Nevada resident, can I loan a handgun (non-AW, ten round limit) to a friend who is a resident of CA? (Assume he is not otherwise prohibited from possessing a firearm)

Last edited by maestro pistolero; April 6, 2009 at 06:47 PM.
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Old April 7, 2009, 03:32 AM   #2
steveno
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not sure about the law but loaning guns is a bad idea in my opinion
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Old April 7, 2009, 04:36 PM   #3
NavyLT
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You can, so long as he does not take that gun back into California with him:
18 USC 922(a)(3):
Quote:
(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;
The (b)(3) exception is for long guns purchased from FFL's.

BTW, a CA resident can possess all those California prohibited items outside the state of California.

Last edited by NavyLT; April 7, 2009 at 04:43 PM.
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Old April 7, 2009, 08:36 PM   #4
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Boiling down the legal mumbo jumbo

The section of law Navy LT quoted covers purchase of (acquiring) a gun ouside the state you live in. Fed Law. Can buy long guns from FFL in another state, and take them home. Cannot do that with handguns.
This is the reason you need to have an out of state handgun shipped to an in state FFL, and "acquire" it from them.

What you are talking about is loaning someone from CA a gun while he, and you, and the gun are in Nevada, right?

If thats the case, Nevada law is what applies.
Example: Your buddy from CA visits you in NV and you want to go quail hunting. He gets required non-resident hunting license, but needs a gun. You want to loan him a 20ga so he can go hunting with you. Is this ok?

It is, if Nevada law says it is. Whatever the Nevada law is covering loaning a firearm is, thats what you both have to comply with.

Reverse situation: You are visiting him in CA. You both have to follow all CA laws regarding firearms. And I believe, CA law requires a waiting period, check, etc., even for the loan of a firearm. (CA residents, please chime in, is this the case?)
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Old April 8, 2009, 01:41 AM   #5
maestro pistolero
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Quote:
(CA residents, please chime in, is this the case?)
Yes please do. Thanks NavyLT for the US code. It does seem clear. But if it is as it seems in the code, I don't think I could even hand him the gun at a range in CA to try it.

Anyone got more info?

I was actually thinking of loaning it to him to take to CA. That seems out of the question now, unless i am missing something.
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Old April 8, 2009, 09:37 AM   #6
NavyLT
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18 USC 922 (a)(5) allows you to loan a firearm TO an out of state resident:
Quote:
(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and
(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
Here's my take on both (a)(3) and (a)(5):

You (a NV resident) can loan a gun to a CA resident, physically present in NV, and the CA resident can travel around with that gun in his possession, without you being there with it in NV. If he takes that gun to CA, with your firearm, without you there with it, he violates (a)(3).

You (a NV resident) according to Federal law, but I do not know if CA law prohibits it (I will find out in a minute), can loan a firearms to a CA resident, physically present in CA, so long as you remain with that firearm. But if the CA resident leaves with that firearm, that is when he "acquires" your firearm and violates (a)(3). But, at a range, as long as you remain with your firearm, he can shoot it, he hasn't "acquired" your firearm because you are still there.

From CA Department of Justice:
Quote:
It is unlawful for a person who is not a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Penal Code section
12071, to sell, loan, or otherwise transfer a firearm to a non-licensed person unless the sale, loan,
or transfer is completed through a licensed firearms dealer. (Penal Code §§ 12071, 12072, 12082.)

2) The dealer licensing and reporting requirements do not apply to the loan of any firearm in the
following instances:
• Infrequent loans of firearms between persons who are personally known to each other for any
lawful purpose, if the loan does not exceed 30 days in duration. (Penal Code § 12078(d).)
• Loans of a firearm for the purpose of shooting at targets on the premises of a target facility
if the firearm is kept within the premises of the target facility at all times.
(Penal Code § 12078(h).)
• Loans of a long gun to a licensed hunter for a period of time not to exceed the
hunting season for which the firearm is being used. (Penal Code § 12078(q).)
Now, the above CA statutes still do not nullify the Federal law. If he "acquires" that gun from you a NV resident, in California, by walking around with your gun while you are not there, the Federal law is broken.

Last edited by NavyLT; April 8, 2009 at 09:44 AM.
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Old April 8, 2009, 11:26 AM   #7
maestro pistolero
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Quote:
• Infrequent loans of firearms between persons who are personally known to each other for any
lawful purpose, if the loan does not exceed 30 days in duration. (Penal Code § 12078(d).)


He is obviously personally known to me.
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Old April 8, 2009, 11:49 AM   #8
guns and more
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I wouldn't loan a gun to my best friend.
Suppose it gets stolen? Lost?
Sorry, but my guns stay with me.
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Old April 8, 2009, 12:05 PM   #9
maestro pistolero
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Quote:
I wouldn't loan a gun to my best friend.
Not the question, but thanks
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Old April 8, 2009, 01:49 PM   #10
NavyLT
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Quote:
He is obviously personally known to me.
The CA law regarding loaning of firearms can only apply to two residents of CA located in CA. You are a resident of NV. The CA law regarding loaning of firearms only applies to him, while he is located in CA. When the gun crosses state lines and the loan occurs between residents of different states, then the laws of the state where the loan take place apply, BUT ALSO the Federal law now also applies because the gun is crossing state lines and because the loan is occurring between residents of two different states.

The only thing that appears to be illegal is for him to walk around in possession of your gun, without you being present at the time, in his state of residence.
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Old April 9, 2009, 12:01 AM   #11
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Quote:
I wouldn't loan a gun to my best friend.
Suppose it gets stolen?
I did this once. To my (now former) best friend. And the gun did get stolen. It was recovered, but because of the BS story he supposedly told the cops (different from the one he told me), and a couple of other things, the gun was held as evidence, and the charged individual never showed up for their hearing, so the gun is held until that person gets charged. Odds are real strong I'll never see that gun again.

I had known the guy over 20 years, and he still did me dirt. I no longer even consider loaning a gun to anyone, (except my children, and they have their own) or my wife.
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Old April 9, 2009, 01:31 AM   #12
maestro pistolero
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Thanks again, but I'm interested in the legality of the matter.
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Old April 9, 2009, 09:05 PM   #13
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Well, it appears that as long as you are together...

He can carry and use one of your guns. Based on what has been posted, that doesn't break any laws. Him getting a gun from you, and going somewhere else with it, apparently does.
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