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View Poll Results: Would you be willing to put your life on the line if continued liberty called for it?
Not under any circumstances. 1 1.67%
Possibly, if forced by my location, or personal situation. 8 13.33%
Very likely to do so, but would have to be a life-or-death setting for me. 30 50.00%
I would do so gladly, under any conditions. 21 35.00%
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 7, 2009, 04:44 PM   #26
Chris_B
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Timing can be tricky. What you want to do well before you pull the distributor is to mark the housing and the flange of the distributor so you index it's position.

If you fail this, get an old distributor cap. Remove your good one. Crash out the #1 post with a punch, and then drill out the hole so it is a BIG hole. Install it onto your distributor. Now you can make sure your rotor is pointing to the #1 post when you install it

Now, get in the car. The distributor's out so it won't start. While you 'bump' the starter (move it ever so slightly with the key) a friend has his finger in the #1 spark plug hole. No I'm not kidding. This will allow you to judge when the compression is 'lost'.

You'll either be timed or damn close to it, or 180* off. If that happens, bump her around the crank again and you've got it

Bear in mid that the cam gear is cut on an angle, and the rotor will rotate slightly as you install it. This is where a lot of mistakes happen- you line up your index marks, but the engine runs like crap...well, the rotor was off a little bit, and you can't advance or retard the spark enough by just turning the distributor to make up the difference. So timing can be tricky, and it's why I always recommend the old distributor cap trick
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Old April 7, 2009, 05:16 PM   #27
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Man, I got 3/4 through that post before I realized what you were doing.

Then I chuckled heartily.

/tips hat
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Old April 7, 2009, 09:03 PM   #28
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Chris- WELL DONE!! For those who have ever had to do this, he's got it just right.....
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Old April 7, 2009, 09:12 PM   #29
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John's moustache is black.

John's moustache is black.

The priest has a white cat.

The priest has a white cat.

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Old April 7, 2009, 09:17 PM   #30
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When I first saw the title I recall thinking " How could a SIG Revolution have a timing issue? Its not a revolver?!?!?"

Thanks Chris for the timing lesson...LOL
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Old April 8, 2009, 04:57 PM   #31
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Sorry for the thread hijack but with all the super serious issues lately...I couldn't resist
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Old April 8, 2009, 05:39 PM   #32
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John's moustache is black.

John's moustache is black.

The priest has a white cat.

The priest has a white cat.
Molasses tomorrow will bring forth cognac.

Molasses tomorrow will bring forth cognac.

John has a long moustache.

John has a long moustache.

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There is a fire at the insurance agency.

Wound my heart with a monotonous languor.

Wound my heart with a monotonous languor.

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Old April 8, 2009, 06:09 PM   #33
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I'm familiar with the history. I wasn't being literal, I was being sarcastic.
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Old April 8, 2009, 08:00 PM   #34
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Oh man, when I read this I was sure it was locked.

Nobody knows what they will do until confronted with the actual decision.

I'd like to think that I would always stand up for what I thought was right, but there are just too many variables that come into play.
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Old April 8, 2009, 10:15 PM   #35
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I'm familiar with the history. I wasn't being literal, I was being sarcastic.
Yep, I figured that.

I was just being literal AND sarcastic -- simultaneously! After all, it is possible that there are people on this forum who aren't familiar with the history behind it...
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Old April 8, 2009, 11:14 PM   #36
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Interesting poll and good thread...but the true question is...

Are you willing to murder, or participate in acts that will lead to the murder of your fellow Americans over political issues?

See Il'yich's quote below and give ol Pete Townsend a glance

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Old April 9, 2009, 12:58 AM   #37
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Are you willing to murder, or participate in acts that will lead to the murder of your fellow Americans over political issues?
Very valid question, but a two-way street.
Would military, NG, and LEO's be willing to do the same, if ordered to do so? I know history has shown there to be several instances of this (i.e. Kent State), but what if (purely hypothetically, of course) both sides main intent and common cause was to protect and defend the Consitution from an outside source wishing to destroy it?
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Old April 9, 2009, 01:16 AM   #38
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Would military, NG, and LEO's be willing to do the same, if ordered to do so?
But thats not the issue here is it. Thats an issue to be addressed to those folks.

Y'all can cloak the idea of revolution in any highfaltutin lingo you want, but the fact remains that historically, every true revolution (and the American "Revolution" wasnt one) leads to bodies in ditches.

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Old April 9, 2009, 01:16 AM   #39
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Make ourseves heard

We, the silent majority , have been silent too long. If our "unbiased" media is only going to print the anti's side of the issue the only alternative we have is make the most of the organizations we have that are printing the truth and be active in promoting firearm freedom in our daily life verbally to everyone we meet. If the American citizens, who have never been around guns or have no experience with guns, keep having the anti gun views hammered into their heads by the media and idiots like Feinstein, Pelosi, Clinton, Holder etc. we have to combat them with what we have. We are like a big old bear. We need to come out of hibernation and start living in the real world. Write your elected officials and remind them that we "hired" them and we can also "fire" them. I have noticed, as have most of you I'm sure, that when you start talking about votes, politicians have a way of hearing better. stay safe and be a walking advertisment for the 2A.
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Old April 9, 2009, 05:43 AM   #40
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Greetings,

"Murder"...??

In my book, and it is mine, It is not a murder to kill the opressor like it is not a murder to execute a criminal who commited murder.

The cliche is that if you could have killed Hitler in 1918 it would have been murder because at that time he was innocent. But if you could have killed him after the long knife night, it would have been Justice...

I strongly believe we have elected and nominated individuals in the Government working against the good of the People for their own and their friends good. They know what they do will hurt (and currently hurts) millions of people but they do it again. What they do is legal, but they are morally criminals..and we are morally criminals to let them do it.

Thank you
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Old April 9, 2009, 06:06 AM   #41
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I strongly believe we have elected and nominated individuals in the Government working against the good of the People for their own and their friends good. They know what they do will hurt (and currently hurts) millions of people but they do it again. What they do is legal, but they are morally criminals..and we are morally criminals to let them do it.
One could just as easily say the exact same thing about the previous administration. Yet, the only revolution necessary was the one at the ballot box, at least, the second time around.
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Old April 9, 2009, 08:27 AM   #42
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Armed revolution is not legal or winnable any longer... Any one who contemplates this is unaware that the USofA is the most powerful military in the free world! Knowing this would negate the thought of a violent revolt!
Brent
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Old April 9, 2009, 09:23 AM   #43
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Things have a way of going back and forth in our system to our benefit and everybody gets to try to run the country the way they want.
It goes back and forth, but there is a general trend towards larger more controlling government.

Quote:
Any revolution today needs to happen through our political process, not against it. A revolution at the polls, if you will. If you're not happy with what your government is doing, then get involved.
Agreed. Our country is nowhere near the place where a revolution is necessary. I would like to see more conservative middle class working age people get involved in protests though. The upcoming 4/15 Tea Party and 2A march planed for next Spring are good signs. Lets face it, no one cares what a bunch of non-voting hippies and college kids say.

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I'd consider increasing restrictions on freedom of speech, press, and assembly to be much more worrying than some silly ban on semi-automatic rifles.
As long as I have the RKBA I have options. I am not cornered. When my RKBA is removed so are my options. THe others ARE more important, but it is very difficult to constrain them without first removing the RKBA. Of course I think it would be very hard to remove RKBA without first removing freedom of speech.

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Convincing someone to vote for you is a hell of a lot easier than convincing them to pick up their gun a follow you to war.
Aparently you have not spent much time around 18 year old males...

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And remember, the government would have a lot of support from the same people they've already bought and paid for with our tax dollars.
From what I have read and compiled, right now 55% of the US population relies on the US government for the majority of their income. When the US government owns 55% of the population, I am not so sure i am represented.

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USA is not a democracy, but a Republic.
It was started as a Republic. It was meant to be a Republic. At this point it is much closer to a Democracy than the founders would have liked. If they had known people who did not pay taxes would end up voting I think they would have clarified that in the constitution.

Quote:
An armed uprising against the government by a small group of individuals would be pointless. No group of private citizens has the resources necessary to take on the government and overthrow it. And I highly doubt that there are any States thinking of seceding from the Union right now.
One tenth of one percent of the United states is 300,000 people. THis is far far less than the number of active insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. I believe the segment of the US population represented in the 1/10th of one percent would also be much better armed, supplied, and trained than those insurgents. Dealing with 5-10 Ruby Ridge/Waco situations at once would put major strains on Federal law enforcement. Are you all that sure when put in that perspective?


Quote:
Any one who contemplates this is unaware that the USofA is the most powerful military in the free world!
Who was the most powerful military power in 1776?

Our country is extremely soft. Both the attitudes of the people and our general structure. I am not saying the situation now calls for violent action, but anyone espousing the idea that it is impossible to succeed with this route b/c of new technologies needs to take another look.

Enough of this. It isn't time yet. Some people think it is and some people have already started to act, just read the news. John Brown was early too. THis might be a good time to skip a range trip and purchase a few books on small unit tactics, guerrilla tactics, and, most importantly, medical manuals. Che Guevarra was Castro's best resource b/c of his medical background. I don't think there was ever a time that wasn't good to read up on some of these things.

On the plus side I see a lot of people swinging away from the two party system and become more adamant supporters of reducing government size and expanding civil liberties. There just seems to be disagreement on which government programs and which civil liberties. Voinovich is not running in 2010 in part b/c many of his constituents are PO'd about how much wasteful pork he brought to the area. When people get PO'd about pork going to their own area things are looking up.
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Old April 9, 2009, 09:24 AM   #44
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Interesting poll and good thread...but the true question is...

Are you willing to murder, or participate in acts that will lead to the murder of your fellow Americans over political issues?
A better question is whether or not it is murder at all. Are battlefield fatalities that occur in the course of a revolution murder? I say not. They are casualties of war. This is, of course, assuming that they are not the result of atrocities. Deliberate targeting of neutral non-combatants on either side IS murder.

So, do you consider the spilling of blood -- of tyrants and patriots -- during the course of justified revolution to be murder? You know, that blood that waters the tree of liberty that Thomas Jefferson spoke about? I, for one, do not. I consider it to be war and/or the carrying out of justice previously denied, which is something completely different than murder.

Quote:
But thats not the issue here is it. Thats an issue to be addressed to those folks.

Y'all can cloak the idea of revolution in any highfaltutin lingo you want, but the fact remains that historically, every true revolution (and the American "Revolution" wasnt one) leads to bodies in ditches.
That people die in wars is a given. Combatants and noncombatants alike. It is part of the cost of war.

I ask you -- would you rather fight or be a slave? Would you resist or go to the gulag/death camps? Don't you realize that if/when the time for revolution/insurrection comes, the bodies will be in the ditches anyway? I, for one, will not go meekly to my death, nor will I meekly don the chains of slavery. There are worse things than war. Slavery and genocide, for instance. I'll fight, and I'll do so accepting the human cost because the cost of not fighting is so much worse. Your implication is that you feel that it is better to die quietly or live in chains than it is to resist tyranny as a free people.
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Old April 9, 2009, 10:01 AM   #45
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As a guy who spends about half my time in Africa(Kenya,Uganda, Liberia, DRC, CAR and Rawanda) I can tell you the last thing you want to see is a revolution. As WA said you will have to be prepared to commit murder and a lot of it. If there was an Armed revolution in the US it would be ugly and make the French revolution look like a Sunday school meeting.

Now as for a Voting revolution we better start one ASAP. The problem now is the Facebook/American Idol aspect of politics in this country and the Level of knowledge possessed by the majority of voters. I think there is going to be a lot of buyers remorse in the next few years and people are going to start wising up. If not this country is going to be like France with out a tower and an attitude. I was in Iraq when they had their 1st election in 04. They had to literally dodge bullets and bombs to vote. They could not even drive to town to vote(No cars allowed on the road). The voter turn out was 3 times higher than it is in America. That is sad and embarrassing. It just goes to show how complacent people have become.

For the guys that want an armed revolution here they need to get on a plane and do a nice little vacation to Liberia, Sierra Leon, Rawnda or maybe Cambodia. I think once you see what the after effects are you will cool down a little. Its not a pretty picture and it is not over in a few days or weeks. The after effects last for generations. I think it would be the Death Nell for this Republic as we know it and what would come after would be something none of us would want.

Chris B, I have used that method a time or two and you are right on, great Post! I think it would take at least a steak to lure me to the camps

But if it came down to going to a concentration camp or slavery I would not go meekly. If it came to me loosing my freedoms guaranteed by the constitution, I would not go meekly, but it would be a last resort because I know what my actions would cause. I have first hand knowledge of them.
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Old April 9, 2009, 10:06 AM   #46
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Greetings,

Sam06 is right. My familly was in Zaire in 1976 during the uprising and then in Republique Populaire Revolutionaire de Guinee in the end of the 80s (under Seku Taure) when the country went belly up. It was bad.

Thank you
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Old April 9, 2009, 10:09 AM   #47
gb_in_ga
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Armed revolution is not legal or winnable any longer... Any one who contemplates this is unaware that the USofA is the most powerful military in the free world! Knowing this would negate the thought of a violent revolt!
Not legal -- true, but immaterial. NO revolution has ever been "legal" because no tyranny will ever condone the fighting against it, it isn't a survival trait for tyrants. Not antebellum, anyway. Legality comes during or after the fight. That captured/defeated revolutionaries have been prosecuted and executed for murder/treason throughout the ages is, of course, undeniable. It is the norm. But that doesn't factor into whether a revolution can or should occur. Mostly, they happen because those revolting have no other options, they have nothing to lose by doing so. They would have been murdered/enslaved no matter what. The cost for doing so was no worse than the cost for not doing so, and in doing so they give themselves and the people hope where there was no hope.

Not winnable -- not true. You make the assumption that the military will cling to the tyrants en masse. That hasn't been historically the case. Many, if not most, revolutions happen alongside and supported by mass defections of the standing military to the revolutionaries' side. The soldiers are of the people, you know. Added, you have to ask whether a sizable portion of the military will engage in operations against their own people? What portion of the military at any one time is composed of patriots? The point is that the overwhelming nature of our own military does not mean that revolution against our government is doomed to fail. Doing so makes the assumption that:
> the military will fight against their own people.
> the military will not substantially defect to the side of the revolutionaries, bringing their weapons with them.

Remember what happened in our own fratricidal war in the 1860's (that it wasn't a real revolution is a matter for another discussion thread, and doesn't really matter to this one). Substantial portions of the antebellum military went to the side of the Confederacy. Don't be so sure that much, if not most, of our military wouldn't do likewise should a modern day revolt occur against a truly tyranical .gov. That would tip the scales in the revolutionaries favor.

Remember as well the numerous revolutions during the formative years of Great Britain. Many were quashed, it is true. But many weren't, and helped make the ideological foundations of our own republic. Remember, as well, the revolution in Texas in the mid 1830's. The colonists were completely outclassed by the Mexican government forces, and yet they revolted anyway, they had no other options as free men. Outclassed or not, even without defections from the Mexican Army, they (we) still prevailed.
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Old April 9, 2009, 10:24 AM   #48
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The prudent man does not shout, "Molon Labe," while there are still many other avenues with which to work with.

On the question of murder, the answer is actually very easy.

If you win your revolution, then it was not murder.

If you lose... All bets are off and being charged with murder is going to be the least of your worries.

What happens during this hypothetical conflict, if you are captured by the "Tories?" You will be held as a terrorist, at the very least. Your family and many of your friends, who may not be involved in the fighting, will be rounded up and treated as terrorists themselves. The other end of that stick is that you will be tried in a military court as a traitor.

Washington, Madison, Jefferson and their like are only remembered as Patriots, because they won. If they had lost, they would merely be a footnote in the annals of history, as Traitors to the Crown.

So it would be for those who would support armed insurrection.

Revolutions are not clean little things. They are dirty, messy affairs and filled with more blood and death than most Americans can think of... Let alone stand.

Sam06 and kestak have nailed it. gb_in_ga has completely overlooked the carnage in favor of his screed.
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Old April 9, 2009, 10:30 AM   #49
Wildalaska
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I strongly believe we have elected and nominated individuals in the Government working against the good of the People for their own and their friends good. They know what they do will hurt (and currently hurts) millions of people but they do it again. What they do is legal, but they are morally criminals..and we are morally criminals to let them do it.
Then your answer is "yes, I would man the firing squads"

Quote:
Your implication is that you feel that it is better to die quietly or live in chains than it is to resist tyranny as a free people.
I make no implication at all. All I want people to think about is whether they are willing to be part of the bloodshed.

Thomas Jeffersons words are very nice. I am sure that they were solace to White Russian soldiers thrown alive into rivers, or petit bourgeousie who mounted the scaffold over Liberte, Egalite, among others.

Remember...those who oppose the revolution are counterrevolutionaries
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Old April 9, 2009, 10:32 AM   #50
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If you win your revolution, then it was not murder.
Until history judges you

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