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Old March 29, 2009, 10:27 AM   #1
chaz12
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Computer viruses on firearms sites

Certain types of websites are well known for being used to launch computer viruses, free **** sites, free game sites, free music downloads, etc. You visit these kind of sites at your own risk.

In the last week I have been attacked twice now from firearm related sites that you would have to assume are not very heavily visited. One was a short video of a gunsmith explaining headspace; the other was a forum site that I was led to on a google search about whitworth rifles.

These are the only two virus attacks I have had in months. Is this some kind of a new trend? Anyone else getting these kind of attacks?

For the unitiatied, a popular form of virus attack now is to infect your computer so that it generates a phony official windows security center looking 'warning' that a virus has been detected on your computer. You are asked do you want to remove the virus. Do not click OK. Once you click OK, the virus program is loaded onto your computer and will continually generate these waring popups about viruses that you don't really have until you buy some service to 'clean' your computer. Once the first warning popup appears, just turn off your computer and then reboot.

Chaz
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Old March 29, 2009, 11:02 AM   #2
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Thanks for post as same thing happened to me approx a month ago. Nephew(computor geek) came over and showed me what to do. I had virus protection on comp. when this happened so I could`nt figure the warning out that came across my screen. Warning screen background was different than screen of my virus protection server. So worth repeating' IF THIS HAPPENS TO YOU DO NOT CLICK THE OK BUTTON!!!
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Old March 29, 2009, 11:42 AM   #3
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I use a program called "The Shield Deluxe 2009"

Stops them all. 100%

Those firearm sites with viruses on them, are not even sites, just frontdoor traps to spead the viruses.

Unlike Lime Wire and facebook, which are real sights, that have virus tags enbedded in them.
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Old March 30, 2009, 09:12 AM   #4
Brian Pfleuger
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Get a Mac.

Problem solved.


There are no viruses, spyware or other nasties. Surf in peace, without paying for ineffective anti-spyware, anti-virus software.
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Old March 30, 2009, 09:19 AM   #5
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If you get one of those windows

dont click any button on the window, generally the whole window is a giant install button. Do like the others say and just switch off your puter (yup, crash it) Will save having to format to get rid of it.

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Old March 30, 2009, 09:40 AM   #6
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once your infested

do a data recovery on to cd/dvds/flash drive etc. reformat and reinstall windows/device drivers/fav programs.
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Old March 30, 2009, 09:49 AM   #7
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Hey guys I dont your deepth of knoweledge but You may want to check out this forum thats virus free covers every thing on computer security related. I am a member there as well and I have tested many virus,Malware, trojans with Zero infections.But since this is a gun related forum I stop there and refer you here where the experts are. www.wilderssecurity.com just a tip check out my sig security related and do your homework.
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Old March 30, 2009, 10:14 AM   #8
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MR odd six I hate to rain on your parade but nothing stops virus/malware and the like 100 percent You are mis informed.sorry sir.
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Old March 30, 2009, 11:06 AM   #9
Mike Irwin
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No viruses that target Mac?

Oh really?

Then these people must be very misinformed...

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...computer+virus

Malware targeting Macs is on the upswing, especially now that there are more Macs out there that are connected to the internet.

Anyone who thinks that Macs are immune are wrong.
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Old March 30, 2009, 11:16 AM   #10
Brian Pfleuger
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Mike,

Viruses have been written for the Mac. There is no question. The problem that the virus has is in getting itself installed, which is (virtually) impossible without user consent. The Mac OS kernel is protected from unauthorized installation of software. The user must enter the administrator password before the kernel can be accessed.

I have been using Macs since 1993, most of the time with NO anti-virus software, and I have never had a problem. The only time I have ever used anti-virus on my mac is when I am networked to a PC, to prevent "spreading" an infection even though my Mac is immune.


Bottom Line:

Might I get a virus on my Mac someday? Maybe.

Will I have one within probably 20 minutes on an unprotected PC? Yes.

Macs are faster, more reliable, can do ANYTHING a windows machine can do (including run windows as it turns out), do NOT cost more money, have better warranties (that you generally don't need) and they look better. They also have fewer hardware compatibility issues.

Oh, the operating system is more intuitive and user friendly also.

Most people who "don't like Macs" haven't used one in 10 years.

Have you driven a Mac.... lately?


(I know, this has nothing to do with the forum or firearms. Close away.)
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Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; March 30, 2009 at 11:42 AM.
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Old March 30, 2009, 12:04 PM   #11
djohn
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Correct to an extent Same goes for vista with UAC (user Account Control) Elevation to Admin privs.Hence run limited user account one must enter password for malware that require admin privs but Keep in mind there is Malware and the like the doesn't require elevated levels Hence Unix base Linux/macs OS or windows can be infected.No OS is totally secure and it is vital to keep a well patched OS updates and all application example Itunes windows media java script and on and on and to close the backdoor so to speak. Unix base Linux or Mac,yes there is much fewer malware/trojans then windows mostly due to market share IMO. No such thing as a totally secure OS or any Security product for that matter.Many scanner miss or produce FP (False positive)which can be more catastrophic then a virus in its self. Send me a malware Sample I will show you a antivirus program that will miss.Virtualization is the most effective way keep thing off that are unwanted.Also Hips (Host Intrusion Protection)are excellent way to keep excutables in check.Example Default Deny all excutables nothing runs with out users knowledge.

Last edited by djohn; March 30, 2009 at 12:12 PM.
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Old March 30, 2009, 12:20 PM   #12
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See, Peet, that's a VERY different situation from your original statement.

There's a BIG difference between "No viruses, nasties, etc." and "the Mac is specifically hardened against those threats that target Macs."

Precision.

It's good in shooting, and it's good in computers.

Oh, and even with that, I find Macs to be way overblown for anything other than graphics development. And I've been using them concurrently with PCs since the late 1980s.
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Old March 30, 2009, 12:38 PM   #13
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
See, Peet, that's a VERY different situation from your original statement.

There's a BIG difference between "No viruses, nasties, etc." and "the Mac is specifically hardened against those threats that target Macs."
Actually, I stand by my original statement.

If I say "There is no such thing as a 44 magnum Glock." and it turns out that some guy made three of them in his basement, am I wrong?

Technically, yes. In reality? No.

Have there been viruses written which target the Macintosh? Yes. Do they effect real users? No.

Some day that may change but not today.

The second issue, and current biggest annoyance with the PCs is spyware. In that arena the Mac has an equal, if not greater, advantage.

Quote:
Oh, and even with that, I find Macs to be way overblown for anything other than graphics development. And I've been using them concurrently with PCs since the late 1980s.
In what way?
They are unquestionably more reliable. I have had one problem in 16 years with a Mac. It was a total failure of a powerbook. Motherboard failure. Apple replaced the ENTIRE computer. They just sent me a box for the old one and shipped me a brand new machine. I am not alone. Mac is the Honda of the computer world, reliability speaking. I have taught people to use both systems. Without exception, people have less trouble learning to use a Mac. I have built PCs and repaired many, I am the unfortunate family troubleshooter. I do NOT get calls from my family members that use Macs. Macs last longer, unquestionably. I have a 350mhz G3 that I still use daily. Is it a scientific machine? Not anymore, but considering that most people do nothing beyond surfing the web and checking email, it is still perfectly capable for 90+% of the time, and it's pushing 10 years old. Find me a 10 year old PC that can be described as "capable".

Oh, and they don't come from the factory with the hard drives filled with junk.
Oh, and the operating system doesn't take 30 gig of the hard drive or demand 1 1/2 gig of memory just to function smoothly.
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---
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-The Architect
-----
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Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; March 30, 2009 at 12:44 PM.
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Old March 30, 2009, 01:38 PM   #14
Mike Irwin
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"Actually, I stand by my original statement."

Stand by it if you wish.

Just don't stand too close to it. Once again, making an absolute statement like "there are no viruses" isn't accurate no matter what threat level or number of viruses that are out there.

It fosters a false sense of security based on a flawed premise, making the analogy between the basement .44 Glock faulty both on its face and in depth.


"In what way?"

The line of work I'm in is totally infested with the koolaide cult of the Mac, whose adulation and veneration make it seem as if Macs can do everything from balancing the Federal budget in 7 seconds to raising the dead a la Jesus Christ himself. At times it puts the Cult of Obama to shame.

Objectively, Macs and PCs perform the same functions to the same level of competency and do in a manner that the vast majority of computer users will find to be transparent across platforms.

It's in specific cases where the Mac can shine, to which I've already stipulated.

I, too, have taught numerous people to use both Macs and PCs, both specific applications and general uses, and my perception is that the learning curve difference is non existent.

I also have several old PCs. I still use my circa 1997-98/Windows 98 Gateway Celeron 366 meg. as a web surfer. It runs MS Office 2003 just fine, along with a variety of other programs. By your own definition, then, it's a perfectly capable machine.

Hell, I have a 20+ year old Sony 8088 with two 5.25" floppy drives and a 10 meg hard drive that still works like a trooper and still runs the games that I have for it. It even runs Word Perfect 4.2...

"Oh, and they don't come from the factory with the hard drives filled with junk."

OK, that can be looked at in one of two ways.

1. Macintosh values its customers and won't subject them to crap loading.

2. Macintosh is such a low volume nich market that no one wants to cobrand their crap loading on Macs.

"Oh, and the operating system doesn't take 30 gig of the hard drive or demand 1 1/2 gig of memory just to function smoothly."

OK. And for the vast majority of users, that sort of nuance is, at best, a non sequitor.


Don't get me wrong, Peet.

I recognize that Macs have some advantages, but for the average user, those advantages simply don't exist to any tangible degree, or at least not to a degree sufficient to result in their purchasing a Mac.

And, if Macs truly were the omni God that my koolaide clan coworkers claim them to be, imbued with mystical compupowers to overcome evil, wouldn't they have vanquished the dark forces of the Evil Master Bill Gates long ago?

Yeah, even I think Bill Gates is evil.
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Old March 30, 2009, 01:48 PM   #15
teeroux
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Most people who "don't like Macs" haven't used one in 10 years.
Yeah well good luck gaming on a Mac now or from any 10yrs ago and 10 yrs to come.:barf:
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Old March 30, 2009, 02:14 PM   #16
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I started with Macs, switched to PCs, originally to take a bunch of programming courses, but stuck with them for maybe ten years, then back to Macs. I've always liked the quality of their hardware and with OSX, the interface got better. Problem was I still couldn't run the CAD and CAM appications I need, until they switched to Intel processors. Now my little notebook runs most of the stuff I need under OSX and I run CAD and CAM in Windows under VMWare Fusion. Life's good.

I too have taught many, many people how to use computers, both PCs and Macs. The ease with which people learn and use computers has much more to do with their own fears and limitations than which operating system they're using.

Yup! Macs face far fewer threats, but it is certainly not none.
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Old March 30, 2009, 02:17 PM   #17
Mike Irwin
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"The ease with which people learn and use computers has much more to do with their own fears and limitations than which operating system they're using."

BINGO!

Truer words have never been spoken.

In fact, they're words that apply to just about every venue, including firearms...


Oh, and after teaching a number of new people at the newspaper where I used to work how to use the Crossfield Hastech page compositor mainframe, I figure I can teach just about anyone anything.



Oh, and teeroux? I'm VERY disappointed in you. Everyone knows that REAL computer users (Mac users), don't game. It's beneath them
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Old March 30, 2009, 02:27 PM   #18
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Oh, and they don't come from the factory with the hard drives filled with junk."

OK, that can be looked at in one of two ways.
I've never known anyone who gave a rats behind about the pre-installed software, in fact, I've never known anyone who considered it anything more than a nuisance.




I think you're right about the Glock hater comparison. I find equally illogical arguments on both sides.

My experience in teaching people both platforms suggests that the immediate abilities are about equal but it is the "deeper" issues that allow the Mac to really shine. After all, anybody who can't learn to click an icon to launch a program is never going to learn either machine.

Fast forward a couple years for a new user of both:

The PC user will know how to install MOST software but sometimes it doesn't auto launch. Now, many times, they don't know what to do... "I don't know... it didn't come up..." Check their "Programs" menu. Almost without fail every single program they have ever installed will not only still be there but they will all be in one gigantic list. They have no idea how to make sub folders or how to install in a sub folder anyway. They install things and then don't know where it went because it's either hiding in that huge list or it's NOT in the list and now they have NO idea where it might be. In spite of the fact that windows has an "unistall" feature, they don't usually know how to use it, even if they were told once upon a time. Their desktop is positively COVERED with icons. Half of them are still the pre-installed crap. The other half are the remains of every program they have ever installed. There are so many icons that they don't even know what most of them do or how they got there. The machine will need to have "Spybot Search and Destroy" and a couple of other programs run weekly, to keep it relatively free of infections. Except that it never gets run by anyone, hence the phone calls about this or that problem. If you wireless network suddenly drops out.... oh hell, isn't it fun to tell people how to find the connections and trouble shoot...

The mac user?

Well, if that spiffy new program doesn't auto launch, lo and behold, there is the CD right there on the desktop. Creating folders, sub-folders and sub-sub-sub folders in easy and intuitive. The desktop is clean, usually. (Some people actually like all those damn little icons all over the place.) Since there is no need for 2 or 3 different anti-virus, anti-spyware programs, nobody forgets to run them. You buy a new printer, scanner, camera, wireless card, wireless router... Plug and Play. On the Mac, it just plain works. Apple has had plug and play so long they never thought to give it a name until Bill finally figured it out.


See, (and here's the key) it's not that I can't teach two people to be equally capable on both a Mac and PC. It's what I DON'T HAVE TO TEACH the mac user that gets me. Equal competence beyond the basic "click that picture for the internet" takes far more instruction on a PC than on a Mac. Not to mention that I don't get technical assistance calls from Mac people. "What happened to... I installed and now I can't find.... Every time I go on the internet this same window pops up and no matter how many times I close it, it just comes right back..."


Answer me this question:

If you were a tech support guy and you got payed $100 every time some one called you with a problem, would you want them using Macs or PCs?

For me it's easy, if I get payed to solve their problems, I want them using PCs but I DON'T get payed. It's a pain in my back-side, so I want them on a Mac. Hands down, no question.


In the end, I suspect that you will keep using and liking your PC and I'll keep using and LOVING my Macs, but I appreciate the friendly discourse.
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---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
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-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.

Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; March 30, 2009 at 02:41 PM.
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Old March 30, 2009, 02:28 PM   #19
djohn
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I will stick with my dual boot - windows Vista or linux Ubuntu.what ever the mood strikes.HA HA HA.Apple OSX is good though and stable and resource friendly the bottom line All OS have there good and bad points.I say if you can why not use them all.All the linux distros,OSX and windows.

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Old March 30, 2009, 02:59 PM   #20
teeroux
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Quote:
Oh, and teeroux? I'm VERY disappointed in you. Everyone knows that REAL computer users (Mac users), don't game. It's beneath them
A Mac user may think its beneath them but every PC owner can still hold it over their heads.
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Old March 30, 2009, 03:24 PM   #21
Mike Irwin
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OK, this is embarrasing...

I just got yelped at by several members of staff for helping hijacking a thread and blowing it off course into a general debate over which is better, Mac or PC (actually, it's not even that).

It's even worse since I'm now staff. They make me clean up the staff lounge, and they're very, very messy people.

So, we need to push this thread back onto the original poster's topic or it will be closed on us.
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Old March 30, 2009, 03:29 PM   #22
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I think Mac users face the same challenges as PC people; it's just that we're much more technically competent and don't need all the help that the other folks do!

grym is an equal opportunity antagonist!

Back to the topic. Keep your machines loaded with updated protection software and stay away from ****, gaming and firearms sites!
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Old March 30, 2009, 03:39 PM   #23
Brian Pfleuger
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OK, this is embarrasing...

See, if you'd been using a Mac it would have warned you.

(Insert Voice of "Hal")

"You're wandering off topic, Mike... Mike? What are you doing? I'm afraid I cannot allow that, Mike...."



I am equally at fault. I'll take my 20 lashes.
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Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
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The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
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-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.
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Old March 30, 2009, 04:02 PM   #24
djohn
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Ok I am at fault as well and on that note lets keep this wonderfull forum virus free and kick the hacker arsis and we can agree to be a happy mac user or pc user.Warning! We are Armed any hackers will be shoot on site.
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Old March 30, 2009, 09:22 PM   #25
tyme
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It doesn't matter what OS you're running.

Get Firefox. Get adblockplus. Get noscript. Make sure it's blocking flash/pdf/java (it should by default). Whitelist specific known-good sites if you want, but do so at your peril particularly if they host 3rd party ads.

Or, even better, have a separate vmware / xen image for generic stuff -- web browsing, running questionable apps...
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