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Old March 27, 2009, 05:31 PM   #1
bprevolver
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Dragoon Revolver in 45-70 by Firearm Specialties

I have just purchased a replica 1860 Army percussion revolver made by Firearm Specialties in Fulton, MI. They made a Dragoon also which was chambered for 45-70 cartridges and the 1860 Army percussion revolver. These were made in the early 1960's. Has anyone ever heard of this company? My 1860 is marked "Firearm Specialties". Interesting also is that the barrel wedge is fitted from right side instead of the left side. This was probably to easily distinguish it from an original since there was a big scare in the early 1960's about converting replicas to pass as originals. L. A. Jensen of Lake City, FL., the very first replica percussion revolver to be manufactured, made his Spiller & Burr reproduction in .44cal. for the same reason.

Would very much appreciate any information anyone may have about this firearm. I do not even know the name of the person who made these, just a company name.
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Old March 27, 2009, 10:55 PM   #2
Ricklin
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Wow

45.70? Holy smokes, that has to be a handful. Sounds cool tho.
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Old March 28, 2009, 10:12 AM   #3
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I hate to post this reply, I do not have any proof to back up what I'm saying, but here go's. Yes I've seen them in two different gun store's. Bronze frame, massive cylinder, very long. At first look it looks like a over grown Colt, but it is just huge. I've looked in many of the old Gun Digest's and can not find anything yet. I'll keep looking though. I thinl at one time they were sold as the worlds most powerful six gun.
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Old March 28, 2009, 07:51 PM   #4
bprevolver
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45-70 Dragoon

Thanks jaguar xk120. I was told that the company Firearm Specialties that made this monster also produced an 1860 Army. If you run across anything to do with this company I would appreciate it very much. Company was located in Fulton, MI.
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Old March 29, 2009, 03:10 PM   #5
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A 45-70 Dragoon! That would be bad ass. What is your 1860 you got chambered in?or is it still Black Powder?
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Old March 30, 2009, 11:39 AM   #6
bprevolver
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Firearms Specialties 1860 Army

The 1860 Army is a .44cal. pecussion. I only mentioned the Dragoon because I knew it would draw some attention, especially being somewhat out of place on the forum. I am seeking information about the company.
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Old March 31, 2009, 01:27 AM   #7
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Bprevolver, I'm gonna convert my Walker to .45/70 now, it ought handle 63.7gr of ffg BP :O)
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Old April 1, 2009, 01:08 PM   #8
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How hard would it be to convert a Walker to 45-70? I'm in manufacturing could you just drill and mill the BP cylinder?
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Old April 1, 2009, 01:51 PM   #9
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I would shoot one of those ... with somebody else's hands.

Pops
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Old April 1, 2009, 02:53 PM   #10
51_60_colt
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I've got a NEF 45-70 rifle...it gives a good kick...cant imagine a 45-70 revolver
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Old April 1, 2009, 07:20 PM   #11
Molasses
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Quote:
I've got a NEF 45-70 rifle...it gives a good kick...cant imagine a 45-70 revolver
Quote:
I would shoot one of those ... with somebody else's hands.
Besides weighing the best part of what a rifle does, you lose enough out of the shorter barrel and cylinder gap that it's not all that bad.

Quote:
How hard would it be to convert a Walker to 45-70? I'm in manufacturing could you just drill and mill the BP cylinder?
Here're a couple of pics showing a Century Mfg .45-70 sixgun (which is what I'm thinking Jaguarxk120 was referring to in his post in the thread...) next to a repro Walker for scale (just ignore that newfangled bottomfeeder in the one pic):




Looks like just a mite bit o' difference in cylinder size...
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Old April 1, 2009, 07:56 PM   #12
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Heres Those Pics
Attached Images
File Type: jpg CIMG0100.JPG (193.1 KB, 154 views)
File Type: jpg CIMG0090.jpg (135.7 KB, 131 views)
File Type: jpg CIMG0099.JPG (184.9 KB, 132 views)
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Old April 1, 2009, 07:59 PM   #13
51_60_colt
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I thought that a shorter barrel rifle kicked harder, the handi rifle has a 22" barrel, i think it has a harder kick than the 32" version. Just wondering
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Old April 1, 2009, 08:02 PM   #14
tdmoparguy
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Heres More
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File Type: jpg CIMG0096.JPG (118.1 KB, 129 views)
File Type: jpg CIMG0095.JPG (128.1 KB, 100 views)
File Type: jpg CIMG0093.JPG (113.6 KB, 81 views)
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Old April 1, 2009, 10:00 PM   #15
fr3db3ar
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Make sure you pay attention if you live in Michigan. Once a bp pistol is converted it has to be registered. Now I don't know how that works with conversion cylinders...I'm curious, since you're not actually doing anything to the revolver itself.
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Old April 1, 2009, 10:25 PM   #16
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Federal Law mandates that if you perminately change/modify any Replica/original C&B ... ect. it is illegal to sell said Revolver. But does not say under Federal Law that you must register it ... that would include grinding out the right side of the frame to rear load a Konvertor such as a Kirst gated or not... and thats my limited education on it.
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Old April 2, 2009, 05:15 AM   #17
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Well, not exactly.

You can do all the modification you wish to a percussion revolver (keeping in mind automatic weapons restrictions), permanent or otherwise, and still sell it with no penalty as long as it does not use modern cartridge ammunition. You can shorten or lengthen the barrel, reshape the grip frame, change the hammer, install a plunger in place of the hand and many other modifications including modification of the frame for a loading gate.

If, however, you modify the gun to shoot modern cartridge ammunition (eg, installing a cartridge conversion cylinder), then you cannot sell the gun with that modification installed without a federal excise tax license. You may, however, remove the modification, sell the gun as a percussion revolver and then sell the modification separately without the tax license.
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Old January 16, 2012, 09:46 PM   #18
eajordan
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I have a huge Firearms Specialties gun too

Did you ever find out anymore? My father gave it to me when I was a kid.

Thanks.
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Old February 12, 2013, 08:44 AM   #19
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I have all the info you need. Do you want to sell it??? Name your price! My grandfather was the producer of these monster 45/70 pistols. He started making them out of his garage in Fulton MI in the 1960's. everyone is hand made. Theres not may out there, I could get a exact number from my uncle. My uncle helped make then and proof shot most of them. He was 6 when he proof tested his first one. Somewhere out there, there is a left handed one. Its one of one. he made a matched pair of a guy and both have a high polish. I would like to own one of these because it is a huge part of my families history. So if you would like to sell it email me at hghrdnhck@aol.com
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Old February 12, 2013, 09:29 AM   #20
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Quote:
Federal Law mandates that if you perminately change/modify any Replica/original C&B ... ect. it is illegal to sell said Revolver
I sincerely doubt the correctness of that statement.
Can you verify by stating the law/reg?
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Old February 12, 2013, 09:37 AM   #21
Willie Sutton
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If, however, you modify the gun to shoot modern cartridge ammunition (eg, installing a cartridge conversion cylinder), then you cannot sell the gun with that modification installed without a federal excise tax license. You may, however, remove the modification, sell the gun as a percussion revolver and then sell the modification separately without the tax license.



Not...so...sure.... of this.

As long as you are manufacturing for private use (for yourself), and not "engaged in manufacture" as an enterprise, the occasional sale of self-manufactured firearms was legal the last time I checked. It's the intent at the time of manufacture that comes into play: Make it with the intent to sell it immediately and you need a license. Make it with the intent to keep it, and then later change your mind and wanrt to sell it... that's fine. It's exactly the same "soft" definition that is the issue when guys rent tables at gunshows to "sell their private collections" as opposed to getting a FFL and renting a table to "do business". Like ****, I can't define it but I know what it is when I see it, and that's the same thing when the Feds look at gunshow "provate sales" and "selling homebuilt firearms".

They are *firearms* once they are permanently modified, and can swing back and forth between being "firearms" and "antique firearms" if all they have is a conversion cylinder. When you add a conversion cylinder you are the "manufacturer" and you can un-make it later.

But: there is no permanent prohibition against sale of a personally manufactured firearm as long as you're not making them for sale to begin with. One of the differences is that you can have non-serialized hombuilt stuff "at home" but apparently you need to add a serial number and manufacturers name to what you might want to later sell.


A Walker is a .45-60 BTW ...



Willie

.
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Old February 12, 2013, 10:04 AM   #22
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Like the pictures, especially loved your nail polish.
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Old February 12, 2013, 05:52 PM   #23
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I've thought of having a 45-70 revolver but i'd rather have something that could be suppressed so I can fire some 500gr subsonic loads.
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Old February 14, 2013, 09:54 AM   #24
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Quote:
Federal Law mandates that if you perminately change/modify any Replica/original C&B ... ect. it is illegal to sell said Revolver. But does not say under Federal Law that you must register it ... that would include grinding out the right side of the frame to rear load a Konvertor such as a Kirst gated or not... and thats my limited education on it.
That's not what the law says. The law says that you cannot engage in the business of manufacturing firearms unless you are licensed. The law also defines what being engaged in the business is. If you're just a guy who owns a C&B gun and installs a cartridge converter in it, you're not engaged in the business, even if you later sell it.

Read 18USC, Chapter 44, paragraphs 921 and 922 for the details.

And, on the topic, sort of, I think that Magnum Research makes a .45-70 revolver. I've never seen one in action, but the pictures scared me plenty!
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Old February 17, 2013, 11:16 AM   #25
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Sort of in the same vein, there are videos on You Tube of a Walker repro with a Kirst Konverter rechambered to .460 S&W loaded with holy black and an assortment of lead balls and slugs. Seems like a real nifty idea to me.
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