The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 23, 2009, 11:33 AM   #1
Housezealot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 20, 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 606
CCW while carpooling

I carpool to work with three coworkers. I do NOT want them to know I carry, and I have wondered if a LEO would handle the situation with discretion. I don't belive that the people I carpool with would no what I was talking about if I informed the officer "I have a ccw the item in question is on my right hip"
Has any one had any experiance with this type of situation? In the past I have never had any trouble being stop while carring, I have been suprised by how curtious the and easy going the Officers have been after I tell them I am carring.

Last edited by Housezealot; March 23, 2009 at 11:57 AM.
Housezealot is offline  
Old March 23, 2009, 11:39 AM   #2
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,599
Now that's an interesting question.

I can't imagine that there's a way to keep it secret if you have to inform a LEO.

It would seem to me that everyone in the car would either know what you were saying or ask "What the frigg are you talking about?"
__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old March 23, 2009, 11:42 AM   #3
mrray13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 26, 2008
Location: deep south illinois
Posts: 707
wow..umm, i guess the LEO could ask you to step to the back of the vehicle, but that's going to garner even more attention.

i've never been presented to a CCW quite in that way. i don't think you'd be able to keep it a secret once stopped though, just don't see how.
mrray13 is offline  
Old March 23, 2009, 11:54 AM   #4
a7mmnut
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2009
Location: NC Foothills
Posts: 1,150
Isn't there a moral obligation of responsibility to your "friends"? -7-
a7mmnut is offline  
Old March 23, 2009, 11:54 AM   #5
Housezealot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 20, 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 606
I guess I should clarify. I work in the financial department of a charity. two of the people I transport work in a seperate branch, they are developmentaly disabled, I don't belive that they would really understand as long as it was not to obvious, the person riding shotgun is my wife so no biggie there.
Housezealot is offline  
Old March 23, 2009, 12:00 PM   #6
pax
Staff
 
Join Date: May 16, 2000
Location: Washington state
Posts: 6,919
When I was pulled over with a car full of children, I simply handed my CPL (permit) to the officer along with my driver's license. The officer chose to glance at it and ask questions only about my registration & insurance, for which I was grateful.

On another occasion, I was pulled over with a friend in the passenger seat. I handed the permit over alongside the driver's license. Upon seeing the CPL, the officer immediately asked, "Do you have 'it' with you right now?" and I responded in the affirmative. He asked, "Where?" and I said, "On my belt, right side." He said, "Please keep your hands away from that area. I need to see your registration and proof of insurance ..." My friend did not appear to notice, and I appreciated the officer's discretion.

pax
__________________
Kathy Jackson
My personal website: Cornered Cat
pax is offline  
Old March 23, 2009, 12:01 PM   #7
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,599
Ah, yes, that does change things. You might be alright. In my experience the LEOs don't make any issue of it.

It generally goes:

You: "Officer, I have a concealed carry permit and I have my gun with me. It is in a holster on my right hip."

Officer: "Alright, just keep your hands on the wheel. I need to run your license and registration, I'll be right back."
__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old March 23, 2009, 12:38 PM   #8
kraigwy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 9,411
I can't understand all these questions of carrying concealed here and there with this group or that group.


If you are carrying conceal, its concealed and no one would know, if they know, you talk too much or it isnt concealed.

Folks, CONCEALED IS CONCEALED, no one but you should know.
__________________
Kraig Stuart
CPT USAR Ret
USAMU Sniper School Oct '78
Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071
kraigwy is offline  
Old March 23, 2009, 12:40 PM   #9
Housezealot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 20, 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 606
thats exactly my point, I would like it to stay concealed but have a legal obligation to inform LEO regardless of who's with me
Housezealot is offline  
Old March 23, 2009, 12:42 PM   #10
pax
Staff
 
Join Date: May 16, 2000
Location: Washington state
Posts: 6,919
kraig ~

Agreed. But a traffic stop is a special case, since in many states permit holders are required by law to notify the officer of their carry status. And many of us even in non-requirement states still consider it an important courtesy to notify the officer.

So it's perfectly reasonable to ask how to notify an officer without notifying the people in your carpool of your carry status.

pax
__________________
Kathy Jackson
My personal website: Cornered Cat
pax is offline  
Old March 23, 2009, 01:08 PM   #11
kraigwy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 9,411
OK I can understand the police & that it may be required at traffic stops etc.

But that should be it.

My delima is I carry under HR 218. I get caught speeding, I should pay the concequences for my actions. Yet if I notify the officer, he's gonna want to see my permit and/or ID. I show him my Retired LE ID card, I dont get the ticket. I dont really see that is right.

Right or wrong, most cops wont give another cop or retired cop a ticket.

But back to topic, except as listed above, no one needs to know if I'm carrying.

As a cop I assumed, and taught my trainies that EVERYONE IS CARRYING.
__________________
Kraig Stuart
CPT USAR Ret
USAMU Sniper School Oct '78
Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071
kraigwy is offline  
Old March 23, 2009, 01:19 PM   #12
chris in va
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 26, 2004
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 12,513
Aaaand, in some states you don't have to notify the LEO.
chris in va is offline  
Old March 23, 2009, 01:20 PM   #13
curt.45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2008
Location: Fort Wayne Ind.
Posts: 798
oh I'm just not getting in to this one.
curt.45 is offline  
Old March 23, 2009, 03:16 PM   #14
fastforty
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 1999
Location: In a kornfield in kalifornia
Posts: 1,161
When I first got my permit (10-12 years ago) we were informed in the class that "anytime any LEO asks for ID, we MUST hand over our permit and inform him/her that we are carrying". In the last couple of classes I've taken for renewal (every 2 years) we have been told specifically NOT to hand over the permit and only to notify the officer if we are asked to step out of the car.

I've only been pulled over once while CCW'ing (after the change). I forked my permit over with my driver's license anyway and he just handed me the permit back saying "I don't need to see this". I suppose there are instances where it doesn't happen, but most often LEO runs your vehicle license number before you even get your vehicle stopped. Then, the registered owner gets ran & the officer knows that you have a CCW & how many DROS are on file in your name before he gets out of his cruiser.
__________________
When Banjos are outlawed, only Outlaws will have Banjos
The Bible is my lawbook. I turn the other cheek when applicable, and spend the rest of my days resisting evil at every front, until I have breathed my last breath.
fastforty is offline  
Old March 23, 2009, 03:27 PM   #15
csmsss
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2008
Location: Orange, TX
Posts: 2,986
It's foolish to think there is a one-size-fits-all answer to this hypothetical. Individual officers have individual attitudes toward armed citizens, and will react accordingly, regardless of the specifics of the law in that state. The best advice I can give is to comply with the law as you understand it in your state. If the law says you must inform the officer of your CCW status and that you are carrying a firearm, then you had better do so. If the law says you aren't required to do so, then you should use your best judgement based on the demeanor of the police officer and the conditions of the stop.
csmsss is offline  
Old March 23, 2009, 03:56 PM   #16
saands
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 14, 1999
Posts: 1,563
Quote:
I suppose there are instances where it doesn't happen, but most often LEO runs your vehicle license number before you even get your vehicle stopped. Then, the registered owner gets ran & the officer knows that you have a CCW & how many DROS are on file in your name before he gets out of his cruiser.
Fast40: Do you know this to be the case, or do you just suspect it to be so? I've not ridden along in a cruiser in CA, but I spent many years in the Fire Dept there and heard countless requests for DL and Registrations ... I never heard a single report on the number of firearms registered to an RO of a vehicle ... is this something new with the more advanced digital links to cruisers? Or maybe this only happens with a CCW holder ... there are so few in CA that I suppose it is possible that I never heard one of them get a traffic stop.

Just curious ...
Saands
saands is offline  
Old March 23, 2009, 09:23 PM   #17
AZAK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 15, 2008
Location: the object towards which the action of the sea is directed
Posts: 2,103
When I was pulled over by AST (Alaska State Troopers) the very first question that was asked was, "Are you carrying right now?"

In Alaska you do not need a ACHP (Alaska Concealed Handgun Permit) to concealed carry; however, not that many years ago up here it allowed one to be NICS exempt. No longer the case. So, while not needing an ACHP it used to be helpful, and some states in the lower 49 do have reciprocity with AK concerning the permit.

I am assuming that once the LEO puts your car's license plate number into the computer, it will spit out whether or not you do have a CC permit. Especially since up here the Department of Public Safety (Agency that issues the permits) essentially is the AST.
__________________
The lowest paid college major/degree in this country after graduation...
Elementary Education.

Now, go figure...
AZAK is offline  
Old March 23, 2009, 10:18 PM   #18
fastforty
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 1999
Location: In a kornfield in kalifornia
Posts: 1,161
Quote:
Fast40: Do you know this to be the case, or do you just suspect it to be so?
I'd heard the responses to background checks on my scanner including "multiple DROS on file" numerous times. I've trained at least a couple hundred LEOs and trained with a couple dozen. The subject of traffic stops comes up pretty frequently and they verify the scenario.
__________________
When Banjos are outlawed, only Outlaws will have Banjos
The Bible is my lawbook. I turn the other cheek when applicable, and spend the rest of my days resisting evil at every front, until I have breathed my last breath.
fastforty is offline  
Old March 24, 2009, 08:44 AM   #19
mrray13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 26, 2008
Location: deep south illinois
Posts: 707
kraigwy would be the only allowed to carry concealed in my state, illinois. we honor noones permits. that said, if you don't tell us, most of us won't know. don't fidget a bunch though, and if you are honest up front and have your permit, typically (well, this is all i do) all the happens is that your gun is unloaded, ammo placed with you, weapon placed in trunk.

but even in this state, i treat every traffic stop as though everyone in the car is carrying. mostly because we won't get owner info on every stop. yeah, by the time i'm at your window, your plates have been ran, and if there is z5 info on the RO (registared owner/s), i have it. but if there isn't, then i'm walking blind, so to speak.
mrray13 is offline  
Old March 24, 2009, 09:31 AM   #20
saands
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 14, 1999
Posts: 1,563
Fast40:

Thanks for the follow-up ... that's an interesting piece of info ...
Saands
saands is offline  
Old March 24, 2009, 11:17 AM   #21
Mr. Davis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2009
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 127
My suggestion:

There's no perfect "out" here, but it sounds like the best you can hope for in your particular situation is to avoid the officer specifically asking "Are there any weapons in the vehicle?", and having to answer "Yes."

Pax's suggestion of handing over the CCW license before being prompted is the best way to avoid that, but there's no guarantee.

I would always hand over your CCW (CCDW here in KY) license with your driver's license, registration, etc. I consider it an important courtesy to inform the officer of your carry status, and removes any idea that you may be hiding something.

If you're directly asked by the officer, answer by saying "It's on my hip" or the appropriate location, without saying the word "gun", if you're afraid someone in the car would be spooked.
Mr. Davis is offline  
Old March 24, 2009, 11:53 AM   #22
chemgirlie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 3, 2009
Location: WI
Posts: 331
I have a twist on Pax's method of handing the ccw permit over with your driver's license. Perhaps you could write on a small index card about the size of your license something like "My ccw piece is carried on my right hip. I would like to keep its existence and location private from my fellow carpoolers. Thank you for your discretion." This card could be kept in your wallet and handed over with your ccw permit and DL in the event you get pulled over. It would let the officer know in a respectful manner that you are carrying, where it is located at and that you would like it to stay a private matter without any conversation.
chemgirlie is offline  
Old March 24, 2009, 12:48 PM   #23
armsmaster270
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 25, 2008
Location: California
Posts: 1,943
If you handed them your CCW with your license I think most Officers would handle it low key but ther is always that one that will run you through the wringer.
__________________
http://www.armsmaster.net-a.googlepages.com
http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/f...aster270/Guns/
Retired LE, M.P., Sr. M.P. Investigator F.B.I. Trained Rangemaster/Firearms Instructor & Armorer, Presently Forensic Document Examiner for D.H.S.
armsmaster270 is offline  
Old March 24, 2009, 01:23 PM   #24
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,599
Quote:
Perhaps you could write on a small index card about the size of your license something like "My ccw piece is carried on my right hip. I would like to keep its existence and location private from my fellow carpoolers. Thank you for your discretion."
That's an interesting idea. It could work.
__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old March 24, 2009, 01:25 PM   #25
Shadi Khalil
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 23, 2006
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 4,953
I got pulled over once with my little brother and his friend. My brother and his friend were both around 8 years old and I was driving them home from soccer practice. I did want my brothers friend to tell him parents; "we got stopped by the police and Ryan's brother had a gun!" When the officer came up I immediately handed him all my papers with the CCP on top, and pointed to the kids and did the "down low motion with my hands". He complied, wrote me a warning and sent me on my way.
Shadi Khalil is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13650 seconds with 9 queries