44 mag loads in once fired cases

under_dawg · March 21, 2009, 07:44 PM

A friend gave me some once fired Remington & Winchester .44 mag brass. I usually load my heavy magnum loads in new cases, then relegate those cases (once fired) to plinking loads after shooting them once. Am I pushing the brass too hard if I load say 23.5gr of H-110 with a 240gr xtp into 2nd or 3rd time fired brass?

zxcvbob · March 21, 2009, 08:02 PM

Are you shooting these in a revolver? If so, it doesn't make any difference if you are abusing the brass. Just keep reloading it until it splits or the primers fall out or the heads come off. In an autoloader or a rifle, you might wanna be more careful...

[Actually, if the heads are about to come off, you can usually catch that before you load them that last time; there should be a crack starting around the top of the web. But usually they split at the case mouth long before this]

thetoecutter · March 21, 2009, 08:04 PM

I don't do many "plinker" loads. My light loads are the ones with 180 gr bullets.

Have cases that have been loaded ??? times that I have had since the early 90's. I look them over after tumbling and sizing (think I have only had a couple that split), but I reject them at the hand-priming stage when the primer pockets feel loose...maybe 4-5 per 200-250.

Other than that, I know people say you don't have to trim straight-wall cartridges, but over the years I have trimmed them all back to whatever length the Lee mandrel/thingie is for .44Mag a couple of times.

TTC

Teuthis · March 21, 2009, 08:09 PM

Good quality brass will last through numerous loadings. One can trim them back a couple of times without problems. Small cracks will usually become evident when it is time to discard brass. I have reloaded magnum brass repeatedly with full magnum loads over a couple of years without signs of wear.

SP Shop Foreman · March 21, 2009, 08:15 PM

Why wouldn't you anneal them every 5 cycles?

Latigo

kestak · March 23, 2009, 07:22 AM

Greetings,

I am using the same powder and same load than you and I shoot my 44 caliber in a Ruger super redhawk and super blackhawk.

The nice thing with those revolvers, it is even if I get a 1/2 inch longitulinal split on the case, the risk to damage the revolver is very minimal.

As said, if you shoot in revolvers, you do not have to worry too much. I have some brass that I shot 8 times with that load and it is still in good shape. With semi-auto, this is another story: 45ACP, you can reload a lot of times, but 380ACP, 9mm and 40S&W for example, you have to be more careful. 44 Mag in semi-auto (mostly magnum research makes those) should be reloaded only 2-3 times maximum.

Each time I fire my 44, 500, 357 brass, I use a dremel tool and I make a small mark on the rim of the brass. It i seasy to count how many times that brass has been fired. When I no longer have room to put a mark (usually 12 with 357 mag) I discard the brass to be safe.

Thank you

Sam06 · March 23, 2009, 07:30 AM

I load my 44 Mag until the necks split or they crack at the base. Hot or Plinker I don't worry about separating them from others. Once it gets shot it all goes into the pile. I inspect my brass at the range, if its messed up I throw it away there for the Brass maggots to have. Then they can sell it someone on the internet and make them mad.....Thats the way I am stimulating the economy

kestak · March 23, 2009, 07:33 AM

Greetings,

Sam06, I would suggest that you bring with you pliers and if the brass is no longer good for you, just give it a "strong crimp:.

That way, your conscience will feel good andnobody will be the "victim" of a disonest seller that says "once fired brass" when it is not.

Thank you

Sam06 · March 23, 2009, 07:38 AM

I usually do that. But there is this guy at one of the ranges I shoot at that was literally holding a bucket to catch my 45ACP barss. I told the guy I reload and want my brass and he says to me "thats the way I make my living and when it hits the ground its fair game" I am standing there with a loaded gun in my hand and he in arguing with me. I told him to leave my brass alone of I was going to have him removed from the area as unsafe. He moved but it severely torqued me. I don't go to public Ranges all that much and that was the last straw.

kestak · March 23, 2009, 07:47 AM

Greetings,

Sam06, you put a smile in my face this morning. I have a rule: never argue with a gun with a gun...hehehehe.

It happened the same thing to me, but on the other way. We go to a public range in a business where people can pay for a lane or you can be member and you can come as many time you want. My wife and I are members and shoot there 3-4 times per week.

We have the explicit permission by the range owner to pick up the brass into the buckets behind the line along the wall (about 6 feet away from the line) because we are members. We never touch the brass on the ground that does nto belong to us, except if we know the guy shooting besides us reload, so we pick up his brass and give it back to him. We never made bad friends. hehe

A Saturday afternoon, we went shooting and while one of us was shooting, the other was sitting on a chair by the wall picking in the bucket. A busy body turned over and told us: "I do not want you to do that."

We simply stopped because he had a gun in his hand. I can say frankly, we left right away because my wife would have waited for him and litterally beaten the crap out of him outside the range. I did nto want that kind of trouble either for some brass.

Thank you

Dingoboyx · March 23, 2009, 07:50 AM

Due to being unable to find new .44 mag brass here in Oz, I only throw brass when I really have to. When I tumble my brass and find any with simple longitudinal cracks less than say, 1/2" (but the case looks otherwise healthy) I reload it (full case less the projectile depth) of trailboss, but mark the base with a texta (felt) pen with a big X. These ones I keep separate for my revolver only (Vaquaro) and not for my 23" cowboy Marlin (split cases in tubular magazines, not a good idea) and on next useage, check how bad the split is getting. As long as the crack isnt widening, and I can still get a good, effective crimp (I cant pull out the projectile with my fingers) I concider a case safe to use. I dont use these when competing in CAS (just in case one gets stuck or something at the unloading table) My X marked cases get kept together (but separately) from the good cases and get checked extra carefully before reloading again.

The only other reason I chuck cases is if there is any cracks around the seat end, or if the primer pocket is too loose, but this has only happened once or twice in the last 1000+ reloads.

So I reckon, if its for a wheel gun, shoot 'em til they cant get shot no mo'

Muzza

dahermit · March 23, 2009, 08:25 AM

If you shoot brass as a "lot" (as in keep that lot together), after several heavy loads one or two of the cases in that lot will get a small crack in the neck of the case. If then you anneal that lot (correctly, not overdone), will continue to be fired and reloaded many times without anymore neck cracks because neck cracks are the result of the brass becoming brittle from working (flaring, crimping). That lot of brass will last a long, long time such treated.

Addendum: You should toss the brass that has splits, anneal only the ones that do not(only one or two in the lot)...those are the ones that you can continue to use (shoot).

Sam06 · March 23, 2009, 08:25 AM

Dingo, I do just about the same thing with my split necked brass. The only thing is most of the time I am shooting 44 Mag its a fairly hot load so the bullet "Un-Crimping and binding up the cylinder thing" Happens to me. When it does I just push it back in with a small dowel or cleaning rod(Like it was a Cap n ball gun". When that happens the brass is retired with a little squeeze on the mouth and a lively toss to the brass bucket

I have had some brass that has been loaded hot last a long time, I think the old Frontier Brass lasted the longest for me but Winchester Brass is my Favorite Brass.

I Don't load Nickle Brass unless I find it, as its kind of hard on the dies.

Some of my brass will get a small split just above the rim. Sometimes it is so small you only see it by the blow by from the powder. This happens every once in a while to me. I cannot say which gun it comes from because I shoot 5 different 44Mags and the brass gets loaded for all of them. It has happened to me with 41 Mags also but not as often(I don't shoot them as much). When I see this......Toss to the Brass maggots

I do keep 50 Winchester cases separate and marked, these are for my Redhawk and they are for hunting only. I color the primer red with a Sharpie pen to denote they are for the Redhawk.

Dingoboyx · March 23, 2009, 11:37 PM

when ya wheel gun wont index, you take a look and heres a projectile poking its nose out of the cylinder, jamming it

Been there, done that.... lol
I just push it back in a bit, index it and shoot it (I figure if all the components are there, the only place the projectile is going is out the barrel) A quick look over the shoulder to see if anyone noticed

then go home and practice my crimping skills

Muzza

PCJim · March 24, 2009, 10:21 AM

I read the above comments by some who continue to shoot brass with known splits in the cases in their revolvers. That brass is the only protection your cylinder has from the hot gasses. I would think that you are risking some sort of cylinder damage (fire etching or similar) if you continue to shoot those split cases.

But then, I suppose that leads to another question - are cylinders constructed such that they are able to withstand the same fire and heat as barrels?

dahermit · March 24, 2009, 10:41 AM

Quote:

...I read the above comments by some who continue to shoot brass with known splits in the cases...

Read my post again...I clarified what I was suggesting.

Dingoboyx · March 24, 2009, 10:47 AM

Up until 5 months ago, I wouldnt have concidered using cracked brass. But unfortunately, here in Oz, cos of the buy-up over your side of the puddle, everything is OS or on BO. In short, I cant get any 44-40 or mag brass, and to buy 50 lead heads new factory stuff costs $Au96.00 for a box of 50 (when you can get it) I have even used my box of John Wayne commemorative 44-40 ammo I got with my '94 Little big horn.

If the crack is open (ing), I chuck it for sure. If it is just a closed crack and I can get a good crimp, I have to use it, for now, unfortunately

But only in the Vaquaros, they seem to handle it fine. I put the crack towards the "meatiest" part of the cylinder so if it were to blow, it would blow into the centre, not to the outside (I have deemed the outside the weakest part of the wheel) If I can get my sticky fingers on a couple of hundred 44-40 & mag cases, I will just weed out the cracked cases and chuck 'em. I loose on average about 2 cases in a hundred, so a couple of hundred more cases would mean I wouldnt have to start using cracked cases for another year or more. Til then, I have to be frugal.

I am being careful tho, limit cracked cases to 200gr pills (Marlin 44 mag I use 245gr lead (only good cases))

Muzza

MADISON · March 24, 2009, 11:22 AM

.44 Magnum in once fired brass
I have 20 year old .44 Magnum 'Once Fired/many loaded cases that I load 12.3 grains of UNIQUE or 21 grains of 2400, both with a 240 grain bullet.

March 21, 2009, 07:44 PM	#1
under_dawg Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Cayce, SC Posts: 210	44 mag loads in once fired cases A friend gave me some once fired Remington & Winchester .44 mag brass. I usually load my heavy magnum loads in new cases, then relegate those cases (once fired) to plinking loads after shooting them once. Am I pushing the brass too hard if I load say 23.5gr of H-110 with a 240gr xtp into 2nd or 3rd time fired brass?

March 21, 2009, 08:02 PM	#2
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 3,693	Are you shooting these in a revolver? If so, it doesn't make any difference if you are abusing the brass. Just keep reloading it until it splits or the primers fall out or the heads come off. In an autoloader or a rifle, you might wanna be more careful... [Actually, if the heads are about to come off, you can usually catch that before you load them that last time; there should be a crack starting around the top of the web. But usually they split at the case mouth long before this] __________________ "The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun"

March 21, 2009, 08:09 PM	#4
Teuthis Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2008 Location: Southern Arizona Posts: 537	Good quality brass will last through numerous loadings. One can trim them back a couple of times without problems. Small cracks will usually become evident when it is time to discard brass. I have reloaded magnum brass repeatedly with full magnum loads over a couple of years without signs of wear. __________________ Oderint dum Metuant

March 21, 2009, 08:15 PM	#5
SP Shop Foreman Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2008 Location: Montana Posts: 169	Why wouldn't you anneal them every 5 cycles? Latigo __________________ Latigo www.swissproductsllc.com

March 23, 2009, 07:22 AM	#6
kestak Senior Member Join Date: June 13, 2007 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 157	Greetings, I am using the same powder and same load than you and I shoot my 44 caliber in a Ruger super redhawk and super blackhawk. The nice thing with those revolvers, it is even if I get a 1/2 inch longitulinal split on the case, the risk to damage the revolver is very minimal. As said, if you shoot in revolvers, you do not have to worry too much. I have some brass that I shot 8 times with that load and it is still in good shape. With semi-auto, this is another story: 45ACP, you can reload a lot of times, but 380ACP, 9mm and 40S&W for example, you have to be more careful. 44 Mag in semi-auto (mostly magnum research makes those) should be reloaded only 2-3 times maximum. Each time I fire my 44, 500, 357 brass, I use a dremel tool and I make a small mark on the rim of the brass. It i seasy to count how many times that brass has been fired. When I no longer have room to put a mark (usually 12 with 357 mag) I discard the brass to be safe. Thank you __________________ abundans cautela non nocet

March 21, 2009, 08:04 PM	#3
thetoecutter Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: east of the mississippi Posts: 77	I don't do many "plinker" loads. My light loads are the ones with 180 gr bullets. Have cases that have been loaded ??? times that I have had since the early 90's. I look them over after tumbling and sizing (think I have only had a couple that split), but I reject them at the hand-priming stage when the primer pockets feel loose...maybe 4-5 per 200-250. Other than that, I know people say you don't have to trim straight-wall cartridges, but over the years I have trimmed them all back to whatever length the Lee mandrel/thingie is for .44Mag a couple of times. TTC

March 23, 2009, 07:30 AM	#7
Sam06 Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2008 Location: Fayettenam Posts: 1,062	I load my 44 Mag until the necks split or they crack at the base. Hot or Plinker I don't worry about separating them from others. Once it gets shot it all goes into the pile. I inspect my brass at the range, if its messed up I throw it away there for the Brass maggots to have. Then they can sell it someone on the internet and make them mad.....Thats the way I am stimulating the economy __________________ The two most abundant elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.

March 23, 2009, 07:33 AM	#8
kestak Senior Member Join Date: June 13, 2007 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 157	Greetings, Sam06, I would suggest that you bring with you pliers and if the brass is no longer good for you, just give it a "strong crimp:. That way, your conscience will feel good andnobody will be the "victim" of a disonest seller that says "once fired brass" when it is not. Thank you __________________ abundans cautela non nocet

March 23, 2009, 07:38 AM	#9
Sam06 Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2008 Location: Fayettenam Posts: 1,062	I usually do that. But there is this guy at one of the ranges I shoot at that was literally holding a bucket to catch my 45ACP barss. I told the guy I reload and want my brass and he says to me "thats the way I make my living and when it hits the ground its fair game" I am standing there with a loaded gun in my hand and he in arguing with me. I told him to leave my brass alone of I was going to have him removed from the area as unsafe. He moved but it severely torqued me. I don't go to public Ranges all that much and that was the last straw. __________________ The two most abundant elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.

March 23, 2009, 07:47 AM	#10
kestak Senior Member Join Date: June 13, 2007 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 157	Greetings, Sam06, you put a smile in my face this morning. I have a rule: never argue with a gun with a gun...hehehehe. It happened the same thing to me, but on the other way. We go to a public range in a business where people can pay for a lane or you can be member and you can come as many time you want. My wife and I are members and shoot there 3-4 times per week. We have the explicit permission by the range owner to pick up the brass into the buckets behind the line along the wall (about 6 feet away from the line) because we are members. We never touch the brass on the ground that does nto belong to us, except if we know the guy shooting besides us reload, so we pick up his brass and give it back to him. We never made bad friends. hehe A Saturday afternoon, we went shooting and while one of us was shooting, the other was sitting on a chair by the wall picking in the bucket. A busy body turned over and told us: "I do not want you to do that." We simply stopped because he had a gun in his hand. I can say frankly, we left right away because my wife would have waited for him and litterally beaten the crap out of him outside the range. I did nto want that kind of trouble either for some brass. Thank you __________________ abundans cautela non nocet

March 23, 2009, 07:50 AM	#11
Dingoboyx Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2009 Location: South East Queensland, Australia Posts: 1,513	+1 zxcvbob & Sam06 Due to being unable to find new .44 mag brass here in Oz, I only throw brass when I really have to. When I tumble my brass and find any with simple longitudinal cracks less than say, 1/2" (but the case looks otherwise healthy) I reload it (full case less the projectile depth) of trailboss, but mark the base with a texta (felt) pen with a big X. These ones I keep separate for my revolver only (Vaquaro) and not for my 23" cowboy Marlin (split cases in tubular magazines, not a good idea) and on next useage, check how bad the split is getting. As long as the crack isnt widening, and I can still get a good, effective crimp (I cant pull out the projectile with my fingers) I concider a case safe to use. I dont use these when competing in CAS (just in case one gets stuck or something at the unloading table) My X marked cases get kept together (but separately) from the good cases and get checked extra carefully before reloading again. The only other reason I chuck cases is if there is any cracks around the seat end, or if the primer pocket is too loose, but this has only happened once or twice in the last 1000+ reloads. So I reckon, if its for a wheel gun, shoot 'em til they cant get shot no mo' Muzza __________________ Muzza If you cant blind them with brilliance, Baffle them with BS Be alert...... there is a shortage of LERTs

March 23, 2009, 08:25 AM	#12
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Ohio, Indiana. Posts: 2,687	If you shoot brass as a "lot" (as in keep that lot together), after several heavy loads one or two of the cases in that lot will get a small crack in the neck of the case. If then you anneal that lot (correctly, not overdone), will continue to be fired and reloaded many times without anymore neck cracks because neck cracks are the result of the brass becoming brittle from working (flaring, crimping). That lot of brass will last a long, long time such treated. Addendum: You should toss the brass that has splits, anneal only the ones that do not(only one or two in the lot)...those are the ones that you can continue to use (shoot). Last edited by dahermit; March 24, 2009 at 10:39 AM.

March 23, 2009, 11:37 PM	#14
Dingoboyx Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2009 Location: South East Queensland, Australia Posts: 1,513	Dont ya just hate that....... when ya wheel gun wont index, you take a look and heres a projectile poking its nose out of the cylinder, jamming it Been there, done that.... lol I just push it back in a bit, index it and shoot it (I figure if all the components are there, the only place the projectile is going is out the barrel) A quick look over the shoulder to see if anyone noticed then go home and practice my crimping skills Muzza __________________ Muzza If you cant blind them with brilliance, Baffle them with BS Be alert...... there is a shortage of LERTs

March 24, 2009, 10:21 AM	#15
PCJim Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2008 Location: FL Posts: 570	I read the above comments by some who continue to shoot brass with known splits in the cases in their revolvers. That brass is the only protection your cylinder has from the hot gasses. I would think that you are risking some sort of cylinder damage (fire etching or similar) if you continue to shoot those split cases. But then, I suppose that leads to another question - are cylinders constructed such that they are able to withstand the same fire and heat as barrels?

March 24, 2009, 10:47 AM	#17
Dingoboyx Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2009 Location: South East Queensland, Australia Posts: 1,513	Good point jim Up until 5 months ago, I wouldnt have concidered using cracked brass. But unfortunately, here in Oz, cos of the buy-up over your side of the puddle, everything is OS or on BO. In short, I cant get any 44-40 or mag brass, and to buy 50 lead heads new factory stuff costs $Au96.00 for a box of 50 (when you can get it) I have even used my box of John Wayne commemorative 44-40 ammo I got with my '94 Little big horn. If the crack is open (ing), I chuck it for sure. If it is just a closed crack and I can get a good crimp, I have to use it, for now, unfortunately But only in the Vaquaros, they seem to handle it fine. I put the crack towards the "meatiest" part of the cylinder so if it were to blow, it would blow into the centre, not to the outside (I have deemed the outside the weakest part of the wheel) If I can get my sticky fingers on a couple of hundred 44-40 & mag cases, I will just weed out the cracked cases and chuck 'em. I loose on average about 2 cases in a hundred, so a couple of hundred more cases would mean I wouldnt have to start using cracked cases for another year or more. Til then, I have to be frugal. I am being careful tho, limit cracked cases to 200gr pills (Marlin 44 mag I use 245gr lead (only good cases)) Muzza __________________ Muzza If you cant blind them with brilliance, Baffle them with BS Be alert...... there is a shortage of LERTs

March 24, 2009, 11:22 AM	#18
MADISON Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2000 Location: Roanoke, Virginia Posts: 2,678	.44 Magnum in once fired brass .44 Magnum in once fired brass I have 20 year old .44 Magnum 'Once Fired/many loaded cases that I load 12.3 grains of UNIQUE or 21 grains of 2400, both with a 240 grain bullet.