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Old March 11, 2009, 11:00 PM   #1
mav88
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M1 garand help

brought the m1 garand to the range the other day, and for some strange reason..it kept on shooting only in "bolt action". I have no clue what the problem maybe. Its not a cmp grade, i would say its better then a rack grade though. Could it be the op rod? or something with the gas system. experts or anyone who knows about m1 garand please id like to hear your advice. If it is a problem i can fix myself then ill be very happy. I shoot one round, then pull the trigger and all i hear is "click". I rack the charging handle again and it shoots fine. Hmm..


thanks
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Old March 12, 2009, 09:00 AM   #2
AK103K
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Did you strip, clean and relube it before you took it out?

When it goes "click", and you work the bolt, is the empty round still in the chamber, or is the chamber empty?
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Old March 12, 2009, 01:47 PM   #3
30Cal
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Going to need all the standard information before a meaningful answer can be provided:

has it worked correctly in the past
what have you done to it since then
was it cleaned, lubed and properly reassembled
what was the ammo used,
what is the exact nature of the failure,
etc.
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Old March 12, 2009, 01:55 PM   #4
armsmaster270
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Sound like the bolt isnt going all the way back to strip off a new round check and see if your gas vent in the bottom of the barrel is clear and check the end of your op rod. if you need more detailed pm me
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Old March 14, 2009, 05:47 PM   #5
mav88
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"Did you strip, clean and relube it before you took it out?

When it goes "click", and you work the bolt, is the empty round still in the chamber, or is the chamber empty?"
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-----sometimes the round ejects..an then i pull trigger and nothing. Pull charging handle back and see theres no round in the chamber. Sometimes there is a round in the chamber and the shell didnt extract..so a combo of both


"Going to need all the standard information before a meaningful answer can be provided:

has it worked correctly in the past
what have you done to it since then
was it cleaned, lubed and properly reassembled
what was the ammo used,
what is the exact nature of the failure,
etc."

-----I dissasembled it..but did not lube it..i was told they run off of grease and not oil? not sure..but i have shot it at the range before and it worked fine..just with a little hickups here and there.

"Sound like the bolt isnt going all the way back to strip off a new round check and see if your gas vent in the bottom of the barrel is clear and check the end of your op rod. "

------^yes, thats probably one of the reasons..but how do i fix it..do i have to replace something?
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Old March 14, 2009, 05:58 PM   #6
jclayto
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Mav, we can start with the basics and work up from there. Under the end of the barrel there is what looks like a large phillips head screw, this is the gas plug, is it tight?

What sort of ammo were you shooting, is it surplus or it is commercial? Better yet, have you ever shot commercial ammo through the gun?

It is true that an M1 needs to be greased not oiled, I use Lubriplate on my garands, available at any auto parts store. Here is a decent drawing of where you should apply grease:
http://pnwbands.com/m1garand/greasepoints.html

Be careful when greasing the bolt camming lug, you are only greasing the very top of that lug not the entire trigger assembly. Greasing the trigger assembly can prove dangerous.

good luck
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Old March 14, 2009, 06:06 PM   #7
Dfariswheel
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Use grease to lube the rifle.
Grease in these places:
http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/garand/fig33.htm

You can see all the M1 manuals on the same site:
http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/

For your problem I'd try the following:

Buy a new op rod spring.
The spring in the M1 powers the entire action, not just the recoil. Buy a new spring from Fulton Armory or Orion 7.

Make sure the gas cylinder lock screw is tight, and make sure the gas escape valve in the screw is not stuck partially open or has a weak spring.

Clean the rifle and lube as above.

Try different ammo.
Note that the M1 was designed to operate with USGI specification ammo and commercial ammo may not only not work, it can damage the rifle.

Scrub the chamber with an M3-A1 Combination Tool.
This is the GI tool with which you do all maintenance on the M1, including cleaning the chamber.

Replace the extractor, extractor spring and plunger.
Use the GI manuals to see how to disassemble the bolt.
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Old March 14, 2009, 07:26 PM   #8
Flatbush Harry
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Go to odcmp.com...strip and clean rifle per the detail strip instructions. Clean, oil and grease per instructions. Google M1 grease points to determine where to grease. Having done all the above, identify problems, if any, report back and we'll try to help.

M1 Garands are close to 'bulletproof'...malfunctions occur frequently because of spring problems...these guns are 50+ years old. Repple springs as needed (try Orion7 as a source for M1 springs), oil, grease, reassemble as instructed, cite again if probs...we'll do the best we can to help.

Cheers,

HC
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Old March 15, 2009, 03:00 AM   #9
mav88
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thanks for the replies guys..^REALLY..i will read your comments and try my best to follow your tips..since i want to shoot this m1 in semi and not bolt action lol.

@jclayto Yes..the gas under the barrel..is not exactly "tight fit" just a lil wiggly..but seems fine, and with the ammo..i been using military surplus that the local gun shop guys gave me for pretty cheap price (hope i dont regret it now)


I will definitely look into your guys advice about the grease and lubing.


THANKK YOOUU!
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Old March 15, 2009, 08:55 AM   #10
Flatbush Harry
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Mav,

Use only M2 ball ammunition in the M1 Garand unless you get an adjustable gas plug and calibrate it correctly. Do not use commercial .30-06 or reloads with unknown components as they will harm the gas action and, possibly, you.

The M1 Garand gas action was designed to work with a specific gas pressure curve developed by the propellant in M2 ball. Other powders develop different pressures that can put stress on the action.

Cheers,

HC
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Old March 15, 2009, 12:41 PM   #11
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jclayto

Thanks for that data sheet on lubing the M1 grand.
I have been shooting one for a long time and have just come to the conclusion that I didn’t know how to maintain one correctly.
Thank you.
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Old March 15, 2009, 05:11 PM   #12
jclayto
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Ozzie, your welcome. Check out the m1 garand owners guide by Scott Duff, great book lots of information.
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Old March 17, 2009, 09:23 AM   #13
Mr Odd Six
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All good info here, The only thing Id add is before you run out and buy new parts.

See if your op rod is bent out of spec, you can retune them if they are not bent to bad.

It sounds like, by what you are saying is that it is firing, and ejecting, just not cycling a new round into the chamber.

That also might have to do with the feeding mech or spring. Which could be a lack of lube.

Even tho I have 100s of the little yellow grease pots, I like to use marine grade moly grease.
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Old March 17, 2009, 12:41 PM   #14
T. O'Heir
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No ejection either? I'd suspect the gas system isn't working at all. Start by looking at the gas hole. It may be clogged with carbon or rust. Then measure the end of the op rod. It should be .525" in diameter. The gas cylinder itself should not be over .532" in diameter. Checking it will require a special guage or an inside micrometer. Measure the barrel at the splines. shouldn't be less than .5995" in diameter.
"...Use only M2 ball ammunition..." M2 ammo didn't exist when the rifle was being developed and tested. It was designed to use .30 M1 ammo with its174.5 grain bullet.
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Old March 17, 2009, 07:06 PM   #15
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If you have never had it done it might not hurt to let someone who builds Garands take a look at it. I dont know were your located, but if you can contact Champions Choice in Lavergne tn, and see if they can put you in touch with Ronnie Morris...Its been a while and I think that is correct, and if he is still working. He has a basic accuracy job he does and it did wonders for one of mine. fubsy
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Old March 17, 2009, 09:05 PM   #16
Flatbush Harry
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Mr. O'Heir,

Respectfully, I don't know what you're suggesting here. John Garand developed a 10-round .274 cal rifle, only to be told that the US Army would require a rifle using WWI spec .30-06 ammo because they had a bunch of .30-06 left over from WWI. He complied. With .30-06, the rifle took 8 cartridges.

The M1 Garand built for 1938-1956 was designed to work with ammunition that developed the pressure curve of what was designated M1, and later M2 ball. I take the US Army at its word and use either M2 ball or its equivalent per the Hornady reloading manual or I use an adjustable gas plug from Schuster or McMann as I really deplore spectacular disassembly of good rifles. I have obtained my M2 ball from CMP (www.odcmp.com) and can either reload to M2 equivalent to milspec or use commercial .30-06 with adjustable plug. I hunt with .308 Win...110gr bullet for varmint or 150 gr bullet for medium game.

Of course, YMMV.

Cheers,

HC

Last edited by Flatbush Harry; March 17, 2009 at 11:38 PM.
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Old March 20, 2009, 03:05 PM   #17
Mr Odd Six
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My M1 does not like heavy rounds.

I now only use 147 and 152 gr pills.

Anything bigger dont feel right.
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Old March 20, 2009, 10:35 PM   #18
Flatbush Harry
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If in doubt, obtain McCann or Schuster adjustable gas plug, follow directions and work to find a load satisfactory in your M1 Garand. Fully open, either adjustable gas plug will have your M1 Garand functioning like a bolt action rifle; work up closure until your gas action just functions.

Best of luck and follow directions,

HC
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Old March 21, 2009, 02:16 AM   #19
T. O'Heir
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Hi, Howard. The U.S. military adopted a boat tailed 174.5 grain bullet at 2647 FPS, actually made for MG's, known as .30 M1 ammo, in 1925. Made for long range shooting out of MG's. This was the ammo the M1 Rifle was designed to use. All tests of the M1 rifle were done with this ammo. It was the 'Service' ammo when the rifle was developed.
It was found that .30 M1 ammo had too much range for National Guard ranges. The Ordnance Committee authorized more M1906(W.W.I) 152 grain ammo with a different bullet jacket at 2700 FPS. This ammo became .30 M2 ammo at 2700 FPS, in 1938. Subsequently upped, in MV, to 2800 FPS to match the ballistics of .30 AP's 168 grain bullet in 1940.
My 30 some years of shooting an M1 Rifle and reloading for it, out of a manual that is far older than any current manual with no fuss indicates the only isues is FL resizing every time. Commercial adjustable gas plugs didn't exist.
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Old March 21, 2009, 06:32 AM   #20
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Had the same issue with my M1 when I bought one. The threading on the gas plug was a little not so great. I got a new gas plug and changed the op rod, no more problems. Mine would blow back and lock itself, so I was getting too much oompf. turns out it needed a shorter op rod.

-term
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Old March 21, 2009, 09:40 AM   #21
Flatbush Harry
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Mr. O'Heir,

Thanks for the very informative note. I'm always delighted to learn something new and you've helped me to do that.

Cheers,

HC
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Old March 21, 2009, 04:04 PM   #22
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Quote:
If you have never had it done it might not hurt to let someone who builds Garands take a look at it. I dont know were your located, but if you can contact Champions and see if they can put you in touch with Ronnie Morris...Its been a while and I think that is correct, and if he is still working. He has a basic accuracy job he does and it did wonders for one of mine. fubsy
Ronnie got his Distinguished HM with a M1a. He knows what it takes to get a service rifle to shoot. The information below is current as of April 2008.

Match Service Works
Attn: Ronnie Morris
422 Maple Street,
Madison TN 37115.
615-868-4567

He built a rear lugged match grade Garand for me. I shot it recently in a 100 yard Highpower match, he does good work.



This is at 200 yards, 20 shots on the 5V target with this rifle. (The club had access to a bunch of 5V targets and we had a 200 yard match)

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