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Old March 24, 2009, 04:42 PM   #1
dadams868
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Need an M1 Garand PRO!

SO, I have an M1 in extremely good condition. The serial number on the reciever indicates that the weapon is from the Korean War era. By the look of the gun, I doubt it saw any action. Im looking to sell it to a local broker, but I don't want to get robbed if the gun has potential value.

I know the barrel is National Match. It has a clear NM marking on the side... which I know ups the value a good bit. I couldn't find any NM marking on the receiver when I broke the gun all the way down, however I did not really know where to look.

Serials-

Wooden Stock- 2072
Action- D28287-128A (RE5B)
Receiver- 5287395 (Fits into korean era)
Trigger and mechanism- D28290-14-5A
Barrel- Unsure of serial but clear NM marking on side.

I may be asking the wrong forum, I know there are some Garand fanatics out there. If anyone can help me at all with a suggested price range it would be greatly appreciated.

Like I said the gun is in very very good condition. Even the stock is very clean and shows little sign of damage or wear.

Thanks!
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Old March 24, 2009, 05:22 PM   #2
kraigwy
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I don't know that they put NM on the receiver, but it will be on the barrel and Op rod.
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Old March 24, 2009, 05:23 PM   #3
dadams868
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PS- not trying to bump this post... But I got one offer for $800. Is that ridiculous. I bought the gun for 700. The seller was ticked when he noticed the NM marking, but at the point I had already paid. Is the 100 profit worth it, or could I make a little more than that? I feel like I could.
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Old March 24, 2009, 05:28 PM   #4
Chris_B
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Curious...what do you mean by the action?

You've listed the receiver, trigger group, and barrel...do you mean the bolt?

Also, when you say the serial on the stock is 2072, could you be more specific on what you're describing? Where is this "serial"? Does the stock bear it's original cartouches? Is this a USGI stock or is it commercial?

NM is certainly desirable, but the condition of the parts also plays a role. Is it possible to post some photographs, please? I do not doubt that the rifle is in fine condition, but what is "excellent" to me may be merely "good" to you.

Also, how does the muzzle gauge? The old 'sticking a 30-06 round in the hole' way is too vague. What's the throat erosion like?
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Old March 24, 2009, 05:30 PM   #5
azredhawk44
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Well, you don't have matching serials, so it isn't terribly collectible. By the sound of the serial numbers it isn't a HRA which are considered a bit more desireable than the Winchesters or Springfields of the day.

NM rifles were sold to the public.



A Mr. Clancy (username eclancy here) often posts esoteric information he researches regarding the Garand. I found this on one of his sites where he archived this stuff.

I'm happy to be proven incorrect, but I doubt a finnicky national match rifle (when compared to the looser tolerances of a standard rifle) would be dispatched overseas.

While your rifle may have been produced during the Korea conflict, I doubt it saw service anywhere other than at Camp Perry.

That being the case, the barrel (if original) most certainly has several thousand rounds through it and could very well be shot out. If it isn't original then you no longer have an original Garand.

CMP sells decent used Garands for about $600 + shipping. Being able to inspect yours first-hand and make a yes/no decision without going through the CMP hoops... I'd say $700-$800 would be a fair price. If it is truly pristine looking in appearance and the barrel and bolt show little wear, it might be worth over a thousand. Depends on the rifle's condition, IMO.
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Old March 24, 2009, 05:32 PM   #6
azredhawk44
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Quote:
PS- not trying to bump this post... But I got one offer for $800. Is that ridiculous. I bought the gun for 700. The seller was ticked when he noticed the NM marking, but at the point I had already paid. Is the 100 profit worth it, or could I make a little more than that? I feel like I could.
After saying that, I wouldn't buy from you.

You're speculating on its value and attempting to turn a profit, without having any real knowledge of the rifle. This makes you more or less a day trader, but in rifles rather than stocks.
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Old March 24, 2009, 06:07 PM   #7
Flatbush Harry
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Sounds like a buyer and seller who both have no idea what they're doing...always entertaining.

Who is the manufacturer of the receiver, is this a mixmaster as far as parts, especially the major ones, is the stock rare, what are it's cartouches, does the furniture matchwhat's the bore and throat erosion, has it been reparked recently, etc. An IHC receiver will be worth more than an SA or HRA (since you're talking post-WWII), a correct grade is worth more than a good condition service grade, an uncommon matching stock is worth more than a replacemnt beech or walnut of new manufacture, and wear is important.

Good condition can mean many different things to different people.

An NM barrel by itself may add value...not to me as I can't shoot it in a John C. Garand match, but the value for the rifle is determined by the entire package. Net, net, much more info required.



HC
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Old March 24, 2009, 06:12 PM   #8
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"You're speculating on its value and attempting to turn a profit, without having any real knowledge of the rifle. This makes you more or less a day trader, but in rifles rather than stocks."

And what is so wrong with that?
He bought a gun, which makes him a gun owner, that makes him a good guy in my book even if he is trying to turn a profit.
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Old March 24, 2009, 06:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
This makes you more or less a day trader, but in rifles rather than stocks.
So the guy wants to sell at a fair price. Every seller wants to make money, every buyer wants to save money. This is life, regardless of what the product being sold is.

I bought my last vehicle at a car dealership. The salesman didn't know squat about it. He didn't even know the price when we test drove it. I had done my homework and knew that it was what I wanted if it drove as nice as it looked. So is life.

To OP, sorry no knowledge of Garands. Good luck!
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Old March 24, 2009, 06:37 PM   #10
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Guys, azredhawk44 posted that because of something that dadams868 posted, that he would not buy from him, and then gave his reason for that.

In azredhawk44's opinion, that makes dadams868 somebody he would not buy from. In his opinion that makes him uncomfortable in buying so he wouldn't do it. That's all. Don't make it into something it's not.
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Old March 24, 2009, 06:59 PM   #11
dadams868
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Yes- admittedly I DO NOT have a great knowledge of garands. I am also NOT trying to sneak a deal towards any of yall. hahah I come here for help and advice. Jeeze, im a little insulted by all of the negativity this post has presented. When I said serial on the stock--> On the inside, inverse of the forward grip, there is a number carved into it, I assumed that was the stock's serial. If anyone can give me directions on where to look on certain parts for important information regarding serials ect... let me know.

If the negative comments about my trying to be greedy could be put aside for now I'd appreciate it. I come to this site to learn. I am trying to learn about the value of this rifle. All I know is the original seller at Collector's in Houston was very ticked off after he made the sale because he noticed the faded NM marking on the barrel. Maybe he's an idiot? I do not know. All I know is he said it looked in great condition, sold it to me, then as I was packing it up he said "oh sh*t" someone missed that. Asked a manager who said "well you already sold it to him, nothing me can do" and that is where my interest had peaked. That was 2 years ago. I have only fired about 6 clips through it and had it professionally cleaned and inspected since. I have no reason to keep it and could use some spare cash, so I would just like to get the best price. If the NM barrel means nothing with these different parts attached oh well. I am just asking to make sure I don't get chumped out of anything.

Thanks Again.
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Old March 24, 2009, 07:27 PM   #12
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There are no serial numbers on stocks, per se. When you say "numbers carved into the wood", do you mean literally carved? No number should be carved, although some rack numbers have been known to be stamped on the stocks- but always stamped. If carved, then although it might have meant something to somebody once, "officially" it means nothing. many soldiers carved things into their stocks. I've seen photos of M1s found in Norman barns with girlfriends' names carved in them, or unit designs carved into them

If numbers on the stock are stamped, then aside from an interesting sidenote on the history of the stock as a military issued object, it almost certainly means nothing other than a rack it was assigned to, which is just about as good as worthless, money-wise. My own has a ghost of a "101" or perhaps a "107" under the grip. Probably nobody will ever really know what it meant.

M1 stocks were sometimes stamped on the inside, however, in the barrel inlet area, and this can mean something. This is what I presume you mean by 'inverse of the forward grip, on the inside'. Also, it is possible to tell the manufacturer of the stock from things like the stamp I mentioned (if present) and by the shape of various features on the stock.

Cartouches are highly desirable on the stock (technically the "buttstock"). These are stamps on the wood in some places, like on the grip, and on the side of the stock to the left of the reciver. These can be dated fairly accurately by the inspector, type of stamp, and the stamp's size and type

See photo (borrowed from Scott Duff's website, my own M1 only bears an arsenal rebuilt proof and an "RIA" for Rock Island Arsenal, the military rebuild depot. My RIA stamp is odd because it has no rectangle around it, but that adds squat to value)



National Match parts are certainly not worthless. But again, value depends on many things. As noted, they are 'illegal' for competition in the John Cantius Garand shooting matches.

Photos of the rifle are probably going to be needed for anyone to give you any type of detailed answers.

Most M1 rifles are what is called a "mixmaster" and this means various parts from various manufacturers from various years have been used to build it. This is not "good" or "bad" unless collectibility is the goal. The military would have bins of parts during rebuild, and nobody ever stopped and said "hey, I can't have this Springfield bolt in my HRA receiver!". In fact, during various stages of the M1's service life, parts were discarded as new rev drawings were made, that were for improved and stronger parts

As an aside, some of the things you mentioned are "Drawing Numbers" rather than serial numbers
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Old March 24, 2009, 07:32 PM   #13
dadams868
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yeah, I should've used the term "stamped" for sure, and I assumed it was worthless information, but one never knows. Im sure it was a factory method of organizing or counting stocks as they went through.
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Old March 24, 2009, 07:58 PM   #14
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For the uninitiated...

An "NM" marking on an M1 Garand's barrel does not a National Match M1 Garand make.

IOW, nearly every M1 Garand seen in the wild these days has been rebuilt in one way, shape, or form since the day its receiver first left a given government armory or contractor -either by military rebuild or by private owners.

Most M1 Garands these days (even those from the DCM/CMP) are mutts, of mixed pedigree. You'll seldom find any with matching parts. Those that survived or otherwise evaded WWII and the Korean War with all matching components are highly prized and pretty much snapped up in private collections nowadays circa 2009. That leaves the rebuilt ones, and some special purpose variants, or those Greek/Italian/Dutch rifles that have been coming back in through the DCM/CMP.

Of the four M1 Garands in my own collection, one is an oddball U.S. Navy Trophy model, rebuilt by Crane Naval Weapons Depot in 1966 for eventual issue as prizes to Fleet Match winners. They have new stocks, and mine showed up from the DCM with a brand-new Marlin barrel. They tend to command higher prices than normal, but are still nowhere near as expensive as true National Match, M1C and M1D sniper variants.

You need to do some homework. There's probably a National Match barrel on that gun, but where are the rest of the NM parts? I said "probably" because there's been a history of counterfeits, and "NM" stamps were readily available even on eBay. Many potential M1 Garand buyers have been burned thusly. If all you have is an NM barrel (how much throat wear, too?) stuck on a plain-vanilla M1 Garand, then it's just a plain-vanilla M1 Garand, and will garner the going prices for such.

I didn't post to rain on your parade. However, based on what you posted, I wouldn't buy from you, either. Then again, I don't buy guns sight unseen, without my own grubby little mitts giving the gun a once-over. Think about it. You're getting excited about it being a National Match Garand, when all you have is an "NM" stamp on the barrel and nowhere else. Had you advertised the gun as such, it could have been a big problem for both you and the buyer.
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Old March 24, 2009, 10:03 PM   #15
dadams868
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hahah, you guys are all taking this wayyy too seriously. Gewhr- I would never advertise a gun if I had no idea about said firearm. That is why I am asking these questions. I really don't know anything about the gun save that it looks to be in very good condition, the Collector's firearms people were "upset" upon noticing the NM marking, and I have shot only a few boxes through it and was impressed with its accuracy. That's ALL I am saying. I am not trying to dupe anyone. I was just looking for any input and advice. What I am hearing is it is probably worth about what I paid for it and that is really fine by me, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything big is all. Thank you for the input from those of you who were helpful. The rest of you- Ill stick to the semi-auto section where the comments are less caustic and the uninformed is treated as a guest and not as an invader of sorts. Sorry for being an amateur.
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Old March 25, 2009, 05:31 AM   #16
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dadams868, You asked and maybe didn't quite get the answer you wanted. I'm no Garand expert but I do own a few.

I have a tuned 308 M-1. The bedded stock has the last four numbers of the rifles serial number stamped in it.

Howard.....I don't thing a barrel by it's self would keep a rifle from being a John C. Garand match shooter. As I understand a JCG match legal rifle could have a match barrel. If I were looking for a few points, I would have to think about a Kreiger. But I think my LMR will do.
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Old March 25, 2009, 10:14 AM   #17
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dadams868: The M1 Garand (and to a lesser degree the M1A or M14 rifle to follow) has a very dedicated cult following. Personally, I'm more of an M14 guy and have only shot a Garand a couple of times, but I have a lot of respect for the old girl.

When trying to sell this rifle, you will come across Garand afficionados who will ask you much more pointed questions than you received here.

You will need to be either very knowledgeable, or very open about your lack of knowledge... because a well educated Garand purchaser will not want to do business with you otherwise. Peddling false assumptions will frustrate potential buyers and harm your reputation.

Quote:
The rest of you- Ill stick to the semi-auto section where the comments are less caustic and the uninformed is treated as a guest and not as an invader of sorts.
Those interested in Garands are not quite the same people as your typical Glock buyer. Most folks that own Garands didn't just randomly point to the rifle on the wall and say "I'll take that one," like one would do with a glass case full of handguns as a novice purchaser. They hunted one down or had it handed down through the family.

FYI.
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Old March 25, 2009, 10:49 AM   #18
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rack grade M1s are going for $900 here now.
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Old March 25, 2009, 01:12 PM   #19
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From reading a post about a fella that had bought a rack grade m1 when cmp had them left, he had several issues with the fire arms. When he sent it back to cmp they changed several parts and used a National match op rod and receiver to see if they would clear up the problems. So you may have a problem child gun that's now fixed with a nm barrel, being a "mixmaster" gun
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Old March 25, 2009, 04:28 PM   #20
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azredhawk44,

Thanks for your further elaboration. Those I can definitely agree with and see where you are coming from now.
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