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Old March 20, 2009, 05:56 PM   #1
Brian Pfleuger
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Why Do YOU live in a "dangerous" area?

Ok, so we'd had this discussion before, many times, but I've never seen the actual logic behind peoples decisions.

I'll ask it like this:

I live in a very safe place. I carry a gun which holds 9+1 and I'm not only confident that it's enough I'm confident that I'll never need it. Right off, NO place is totally safe but it is reasonable to look at the crime level in your area when deciding what level of protection you personally feel you need in your day to day life. I think we can all agree that there is SOME level of preparation that crosses the line into paranoia. I'm not interested in why anyone feels the need to carry X and Y and Z. You may live in a dangerous area and not carry at all or you may carry 2 primaries 4 spare mags a bug with spare mags, pepper spray, a flashlight and a tazer, all while wearing a kevlar vest. That's not the point.The purpose of this thread is NOT to bash each other or make accusations of paranoia.What I'd like to hear from some folks is what exactly it is that keeps them living in areas where they feel the need to carry considerable firepower during an average day.

Here's how I see it.

Premise one: My survival, and that of my immediate family, is paramount.

Premise two: It is reasonable to make efforts to AVOID dangerous confrontations, rather than purely to survive them should they occur.

Premise three: Life is more important than money or climate or proximity to family or, really, anything else.

If you live in a dangerous area, why? Again, this is not an attack. It is a serious question. Moving is NOT that expensive, especially when you consider the the money that many people spend to stay safe in a dangerous place. What keeps you in a place that is not "safe".

I'm posting this in "Tactics and Training" because choice of locality seems like a "tactic" to me.
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Old March 20, 2009, 06:12 PM   #2
Masada
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No place is completely safe.

I used to live in a large urban area. I was probably more at risk there of random urban violence than I am now. My current place is much smaller, not really a small town but a small city. Low risk of random urban violence. Higher risk of targeted violence because of who I am.

*shrug*

You pays your money, you takes your chances.
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Old March 20, 2009, 06:28 PM   #3
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Not sure I'd call where I live "dangerous," but it's a fairly urban neighborhood, with the some of the stuff that entails: some gang-y looking kids around, occasional drunks... way too many "boom cars" ... That said, I chat happily with the neighbors' gang-y looking kids, people pretty much say hello to each other on the street...

I'd rather (for many reasons besides safety) live somewhere much more rural. Would I feel safer? Well, a little, but I'd still be locking my doors at night. Would I want to live in a gated suburb, surrounded by boring people (like myself ) who all commute an hour each way to get to their jobs? No, no, a thousand times no!

Why do I live where I do? The commute is a big part of it. Mine is under five minutes, which makes me very happy. My business is one which does best either in a really well-to-do neighborhood, where I couldn't afford to live anyway, or in a location that's easily reached from outlying well-to-do neighborhoods in all directions. So it's in the city and so am I. And I like having easy access to concerts, theater, good restaurants. (Now, if I could just afford as much of them all as I'd like, but that's another story...)
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Old March 20, 2009, 06:33 PM   #4
Tuzo
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Don't live in a dangerous place but worked in one 40 minutes away - New Orleans. While working one month in Algiers three murders ocurred 3 to 5 blocks. That fact prompted me to get a carry permit and use it.

A co-worker, his sister, and a cousin were attacked in the central business district, outside the company parking garage, mid-morning the day before Mardi Gras leaving two in wheel chairs.

Lived and worked in "third world countries" (Hong Kong, Jakarta, Singapore, Bangkok, even Saigon) with never a problem until I began working in the "fourth world country" of New Orleans. Interesting little observation: until Louisiana carry permits became rather common, carjackings in New Orleans were frequent, now they have become extremely rare. On the other hand, murders still occur daily.
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Old March 20, 2009, 06:38 PM   #5
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You're a lot less safe then you think you are.
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Old March 20, 2009, 06:41 PM   #6
tblt44
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I live in a safe area but travel into tampa where its not so safe.I used to carry a 5 shot 38 but then got a LCP and 4 mags.So then I went and got my KAHR CW 9 this gun is sweet and hplds 7 +1 and always carry one in the pipe.I have my LCP in my pocket.I am confident that 8 shots of 9 mm is all I should need but just in case I sometimes have my LCP in my pocket or an extra mag for my CW9.I was thinking G26 but that would only give me3 more shots but an extra .300 thickness.This gun carrys good in my highnoon holster in the middle of the back.
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Old March 20, 2009, 07:34 PM   #7
hoytinak
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I don't live in a dangerous place at all. I live in a very small town (down to 180 people now). We don't have any city/town police just the Sheriff that's stationed 30 miles away but drives through town about once every 2-3 weeks to make sure the town's still here. I can leave my house/trucks unlocked without fear of someone getting in them while I'm at work. The most crime we have here is someone running the stop sign.

BUT

The next town over, another small town 11 miles away with little to no crime had an armed robbery of a convenience store with the clerk getting shot a couple months ago. Just goes to show that no place is 100% safe.
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Old March 20, 2009, 08:06 PM   #8
mav88
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I live in a somewhat dangerous neighborhood, but as far as the whole state..no. Most people do not choose to live in a dangerous neighborhood..but sometimes they are forced to since it is only what they can afford at the moment. I say to those who do live in a bad area...carry a ccw, keep your eyes open at all times, and never suspect that "nothing will happen to me".
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Old March 20, 2009, 08:31 PM   #9
markshere2
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No place is safe today

Have you noticed the bad guys know how to steal cars and drive?

Yes, I live in a small village, with good neighbors. But the road is connected to the rest of the evil world.

We're in the woods, and it used to be "safe" but the meth cookers are damnear everywhere.

Doors are locked at night, Big dog is here and we're armed. When I step foot off the property, I'm armed.

It's always been a dangerous world. However, a few years ago, or so, a popular invention leveled the playing field between the big bully and the little lady. The Revolver with pre-loaded cartridges.

My goodness, what a wonderful invention! Even the frail aged and infirm can command respect with that tool. Rude threatening jerks will get very polite if they think the bearer of such a tool will not tolerate aggression.

"An armed society is a polite society." RAH

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Old March 20, 2009, 08:36 PM   #10
Hirlau
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+1 FastForty


"I carry a gun which holds 9+1 and I'm not only confident that it's enough I'm confident that I'll never need it."

Why do you carry at all, then? AAAhhhh...Maybe you feel the posibility of use might be around that corner.

I live in the Miami area. I was born here ( Before the problems were here. When it was a Paradise), my son raised here. There are some good people here, that are my friends.

Why should I move out or step aside for some P.O.S. with no values or who lost what values he had?

I made four trips to Texas last year looking to relocate (just retired), fell in love with Texas, the desert and the green eastern side. I now see why Texans love their state soo much.

I then asked myself, would those same Texan's step aside or move and give their land to the same type of people I described above? I doubt it !!


I Stay, I Fight, If Need Be .
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Old March 20, 2009, 08:43 PM   #11
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markshere2
We're in the woods, and it used to be "safe" but the meth cookers are damnear everywhere.
The theoretical possibility of crime does not make a place dangerous. What is the crime RATE?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hirlau
Why do you carry at all, then? AAAhhhh...Maybe you feel the posibility of use might be around that corner.
Because I can? Because I want to? Because, like I said no place is truly "safe" but there are certainly places that are well and truly DANGEROUS. My question is not about the hypothetical "no place is safe..." It's about why people live in places that are CLEARLY and demonstrably more dangerous than would seem prudent.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fastforty
You're a lot less safe then you think you are.
Well, not to pick a fight but in order for that statement to have ANY validity you would have to know how safe I think I am. For the record, the closest city to me, which is 25 miles away, has a crime rate averaging about 1/2 the national average. The FBI rates my particular zip code at "1" on a scale of 1-10. So I think I know, quite accurately, how safe or not safe I am.
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Old March 20, 2009, 08:50 PM   #12
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We used to live across the street from a very active crack house, in a crappy high-crime neighborhood. Lived there for nearly two years.

As soon as we could afford it, we moved. We could not afford to move before that.

Quote:
Moving is NOT that expensive, especially when you consider the the money that many people spend to stay safe in a dangerous place.
Only rich people have the luxury of saving money by spending it. The rest of us have to save it, by saving it!

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Old March 20, 2009, 08:56 PM   #13
mskdgunman
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Some people don't live in a bad area to begin with but the bad area comes to them. I bought my house some 10 years ago in the city where I work on the salary of a single cop so, while the neighborhood is ok, it's not what I would call upper class...more like lower middle class. But, I've noticed the slow, inevitable creep of the "hood" as it works it's way south. All it takes is for home owners to move out and start renting their old places out or sell them to people who rent them out. In my experience, thats when the trouble starts as the owners sometimes don't care who they rent to and since they don't live next to them, they don't care if they have a meth lab in the garage or not. Most houses we hit for dope are not owned by the people living there.

If I want to keep my take home car, I stay in the city. With the housing market being what it is, I don't stand much chance of selling right now and probably couldn't get much better even if I did for the amount I want to spend. I refuse to be one of those folks who have a mortgage they can barely pay and have to rely on off duty details to pay their bills.

It's easy to say "pick up and move" but in reality, it's not practical for many (if not most) people. You make the best of what you have and hope for the best. If I win the lottery, I'll move to the boonies but until then, I am where I am because thats what I can afford and where my job is.
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Old March 20, 2009, 09:05 PM   #14
Dr. Strangelove
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Simple: It's what someone can afford.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peetzakilla
If you live in a dangerous area, why? Again, this is not an attack. It is a serious question. Moving is NOT that expensive, especially when you consider the the money that many people spend to stay safe in a dangerous place. What keeps you in a place that is not "safe".
Many things keep people living where they do, but mostly it's money. For someone living paycheck to paycheck, having to worry every month how the rent is going to be paid, moving is simply not an option. Coming up with 1st and last months rent and/or a security deposit, or loan origination fees, etc., is simply not possible for many people. You may as well ask a low income person to fund the space program as come up with $2000-$3000 to move into a new place. I did taxes this year part time, and I'm sure many people reading this would be shocked at the paltry amount of money some folks live on in this world.

I'm lucky that I have an education and family and friends who can help if I need it, but there are a great many who don't have these luxuries. How about the Waffle House waitress with two kids, no husband, no dependable family and friends? What is she going to do? She looks for the place she can afford, knowing it may not be in the safest neighborhood, but at least it is a roof over her head. Sad, but that's how life is for more people than most may think.
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Old March 20, 2009, 09:06 PM   #15
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When you think you are safe.... you are in trouble. ALways beware.
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Old March 20, 2009, 09:08 PM   #16
GuyMontag
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There have been shootings at schools, places of worship, places of employment, malls, etc. These are all places that we would typically consider safe and we all visit many of them.

I live in a nice neighborhood that would be considered one of the last places to expect violent crime yet this guy:
http://eyeonhate.com/pows/pows9.html
committed his crimes a short drive from where I live.

I can't walk through live as a helpless victim no matter where I live or what kind of community it is.
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Old March 20, 2009, 09:11 PM   #17
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it was nicer 15 years ago when I moved in, since 4 of the houses on the block are owned by members of my family I'm not leaving.







(yet)
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Old March 20, 2009, 09:11 PM   #18
Hirlau
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+ 1 Ar15chase
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Old March 20, 2009, 09:12 PM   #19
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pax
As soon as we could afford it, we moved. We could not afford to move before that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mskdgunman
It's easy to say "pick up and move" but in reality, it's not practical for many (if not most) people.
I agree that "affording" to move is quite often a major factor. I have to wonder though, how many people REALLY can not afford to move, or are a little but scared to be uprooted, and use money as an excuse.

mskdgunman, if I could use your line of work as an example. Our local PDs are hiring all the time. Pretty well non-stop. Now, I don't know (or want to) what kind of money you make but I do know that police work in this area pays a fairly good livable wage. Cost of living is fairly low, reasonable anyway, except for taxes. So, it seems to me that someone like you could pretty easily get a new job around here, pack up your things and get out of dodge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove
How about the Waffle House waitress with two kids, no husband, no dependable family and friends?
See, I actually think it's easier for people in that type of situation to move. (Personal experience, my sister has been that "waffle house waitress".) Nothing to take with you, really. My area again as an example. You can rent a fully furnished house around here for maybe $600/month. Sure, it wouldn't be fun and you'd be on a shoestring but you'd be safER and your kids are in a better environment. Heck, a single mom with two kids could use the tips from one night at work to buy the bus tickets.
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-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.

Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; March 20, 2009 at 09:20 PM.
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Old March 20, 2009, 09:17 PM   #20
Hirlau
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peetzakiller,
I don't want a battle with you, but why are you pushing the idea of relocation as a response to high crime?
Maybe we just don't want to leave our homes! Regardless of the crime rate.
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Old March 20, 2009, 09:18 PM   #21
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Quote:
I agree that "affording" to move is quite often a major factor. I have to wonder though, how many people REALLY can not afford to move, or are a little but scared to be uprooted, and use money as an excuse.
You sound like a man who has never been truly broke.

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Old March 20, 2009, 09:21 PM   #22
Hirlau
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AMEN
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Old March 20, 2009, 09:24 PM   #23
ar15chase
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Just leaving is mich harder than you think peet. I have been broke before. I dont have the money to just get up a run. And I dont think many people do. I would rather defend a home in a bad "hood" than to live out of a shopping cart.
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Old March 20, 2009, 09:24 PM   #24
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
You sound like a man who has never been truly broke.
I wish. I have NOT been truly broke and living in a high crime area but for too many years I made the monthly choice of food vs electric. I don't mean to put anybody down or sound like I'm looking down my nose at poor people. I certainly am not. I know that there are people who make excuses to cover up the real reasons they do things, that's all. Certainly not everybody.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hirlau
Maybe we just don't want to leave our homes! Regardless of the crime rate.
I don't want to battle at all. In fact, that answer is what I'm looking for. I'm not judging anybody for staying or leaving. I'm just asking, why? That's your why and it's cool.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15chase
I would rather defend a home in a bad "hood" than to live out of a shopping cart.
As would I. The thing is that I think many people think it's going to be just that kind of choice but usually it's not. As I outlined above, sometimes it easier than that. People might be making 50k a year and think "Heck, I can't live in in XYZ, can't get a job for over 25k there..." but then the cost of living is 1/2 what it is where they are now. Or, they make 15k per year and think "I can't move, it's to expensive.", when all they REALLY need to do is find an apartment and buy a $25 bus ticket.
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Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; March 20, 2009 at 09:30 PM.
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Old March 20, 2009, 09:26 PM   #25
vsgonzo
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i travel an hour into work and an hour back home from work (Houston, tx). I work for the Feds, and I carry a badge. Never know what who may be following or what may happen along the roads. Law enforcement people tend to have that over the should look to them.

Times are getting rough, but to be honest I carry my duty H&K p2000 fully loaded. Occasionally I'll take my off duty mag pouch with 2 mags.
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