The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > General Discussion Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 19, 2016, 07:06 PM   #1
TomNJVA
Member
 
Join Date: January 22, 2014
Location: Floyd, VA
Posts: 73
How do you ship your pistols for repair

I need to send one of my pistols back to the manufacturer for some minor repairs and upgrade. I understand that I can't ship a firearm through the US Postal Service and must use UPS or FedEx. To my knowledge there are no legal regulations on such a shipment (other than must be to a licensed manufacturer etc.) but that UPS and FedEx have their own policies and rules, including using overnight service at outrageous prices.

Is there some justification for using overnight service besides profit? The manufacturer implied that they receive many pistol shipments by regular ground service, so how would UPS or FedEx know what I am shipping? Are there penalties for mistakenly shipping by regular ground service. So what do you folks do?

Thanks!

Tom
__________________
In NJ, the bad guys are armed and the households are alarmed. In VA, the households are armed and the bad guys are alarmed.
TomNJVA is offline  
Old July 19, 2016, 07:24 PM   #2
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 8,415
The justification for UPS and FedEx to require overnight is that overnight service is more direct and passes through fewer hands, as well as being more closely tracked. In the past, both companies had problems with firearms "diappearing" while in transit. This is their way of trying to address that.

Federal law requires that when you ship a firearm by common carrier, you must inform the carrier that you are shipping a firearm. Here's the law:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18 USC 922
(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.
A strict reading of this tells us that if you are shipping to a licensed manufacturer, you do not have to inform the common carrier that you are shipping a firearm. That takes care of the federal law. It is still the shipper's policy that firearms must be shipped overnight. If you don't choose to inform them AND you don't abide by their regulation, I suppose if the gun arrives safely nobody will ever know. If the gun is lost or damaged -- good luck collecting if you failed to follow their rules.
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old July 19, 2016, 07:25 PM   #3
Doyle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 20, 2007
Location: Starkville, MS
Posts: 6,247
Which manufacturer? When I dealt with Ruger, they sent me the mailing label by email and specified which carrier. All I had to do was pack it up and drop it off.
Doyle is offline  
Old July 19, 2016, 07:33 PM   #4
Ozzieman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2004
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 5,480
I have returned several guns to both Ruger and S&W and Doyle’s experience is a duplicate of mine.
You have a good amount of money invested and gun makers like those two will send you back a better product than what you sent them.
What is the price of overnight shipping compared to the price of the gun? I inform them and insure the gun. You need to follow the manufactures recommendation.
__________________
It was a sad day when I discovered my universal remote control did not in fact control the universe.

Did you hear about the latest study.....5 out of 6 liberals say that Russian Roulette is safe.
Ozzieman is offline  
Old July 19, 2016, 08:04 PM   #5
TomNJVA
Member
 
Join Date: January 22, 2014
Location: Floyd, VA
Posts: 73
The manufacturer is SCCY and the gun only cost $265. It appears UPS and FedEx will charge some $55 for the one way shipment from VA to FL - SCCY pays the return shipping.

Tom
__________________
In NJ, the bad guys are armed and the households are alarmed. In VA, the households are armed and the bad guys are alarmed.
TomNJVA is offline  
Old July 19, 2016, 09:32 PM   #6
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 8,415
An FFL can send handguns through the postal service, and a small handgun will fit in a small Flat Rate box that goes for (IIRC) $5.95. If you have an on-going relationship with a local FFL, even if you pay him $25 for a transfer fee (it has to go through his bound book) it still might be cheaper than using UPS or FedEx.
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old July 21, 2016, 11:17 AM   #7
Doyle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 20, 2007
Location: Starkville, MS
Posts: 6,247
Tom, I'll give you one more option. Call SCCY and see if they will let you use their FedEx/UPS account to create a shipping label but with you reimbursing them for the price. Big companies negotiate SERIOUSLY reduced shipping rates from the carriers. While it may cost you $55 or so dollars to ship with FedEx, it would cost them a small fraction of that.
Doyle is offline  
Old July 21, 2016, 12:01 PM   #8
aarondhgraham
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 1, 2009
Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma
Posts: 8,026
Use shipmygun.com,,,

Use shipmygun.com,,,
The cost is only $39.95 for a handgun.

It's a service piggy-backed on Buds Gun Shop,,,
Go on-line to set up the shipment.

The only bad thing is you have to take it to a UPS hub,,,
Those little franchise UPS stores won't do this.

I recently purchased a handgun from a private individual,,,
He used shipmygun and it got to me the next day.

It really is next day delivery.

Aarond

.
__________________
Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once.
Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it?
Combat: "A Silent Cry"
Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)
aarondhgraham is offline  
Old July 21, 2016, 12:37 PM   #9
Doyle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 20, 2007
Location: Starkville, MS
Posts: 6,247
Aarond, I'm pretty sure that shipmygun is doing the same thing that I had previously recommended. They are using a "large company" negotiated shipping rate to create the pre-printed labels - of course, making a profit while doing so. I wonder how much of that $39.95 you paid actually went to the carrier and how much was Bud's profit.
Doyle is offline  
Old July 21, 2016, 12:56 PM   #10
guncrank
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2006
Location: Fern Creek ,KY and Metro Louisville at large
Posts: 356
A 4473 is not required to receive a handgun sent/received to a FFL , the firearm is not changing ownership.

This is still under gunsmithing.
__________________
CW Shooters Supply Inc
1-502-231-1118
Machine Shop and Finishing Services to the trade and public
guncrank is offline  
Old July 21, 2016, 02:10 PM   #11
aarondhgraham
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 1, 2009
Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma
Posts: 8,026
Hello Doyle,,,

You are probably correct,,,
I just mentioned shipmygun because it's a sure thing.

Over the years I've tried to get a few companies to do what you suggested,,,
All but one (Charter Arms) told me I had to go the private courier route.

For a while I had a local gun shop ship for me,,,
They charged a flat-rate of $35.00.

For some reason they decided it was too much trouble,,,
So from now on I'll just use shipmygun.

I have a UPS Hub right by my work,,,
For me it's the most hassle-free method.

Aarond

.
__________________
Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once.
Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it?
Combat: "A Silent Cry"
Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)
aarondhgraham is offline  
Old July 21, 2016, 03:21 PM   #12
FITASC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 2014
Posts: 1,927
Quote:
The only bad thing is you have to take it to a UPS hub,,,
Those little franchise UPS stores won't do this.
Neither will the Fedex/Kinko ones.
Use a FFL and have it shipped back to you directly; saves money.
__________________
FITASC: Fédération Internationale de Tir aux Armes Sportives de Chasse. http://www.fitasc.com/uk/home/view
FITASC is offline  
Old July 21, 2016, 03:51 PM   #13
guncrank
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2006
Location: Fern Creek ,KY and Metro Louisville at large
Posts: 356
I receive a gun to send to factory, factory replaces gun in stead of repair.
No 4473 was done.
__________________
CW Shooters Supply Inc
1-502-231-1118
Machine Shop and Finishing Services to the trade and public
guncrank is offline  
Old July 21, 2016, 06:22 PM   #14
guncrank
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2006
Location: Fern Creek ,KY and Metro Louisville at large
Posts: 356
Let's say that the firearm is delivered from a Non-Licensed Owner to FFL "A" so that it can be mailed to FFL "B" for repair.

FFL "A" did NOT receive the firearm for "the sole purpose of repair". FFL "A" received it for the purpose of sending it to FFL "B". Thus, the exemption does not apply, and FFL "A" may not return it to the Non-Licensed Owner without executing a 4473

That example is not even close to correct. Ownership is not transfered.
The federal code does not say that the shop has to do the work. They can have a gunsmith that does the work as a sub -contractor. Or send it to a dozen different shops for work.

4473 / NICS are only done transfer of ownership as a sale.
Or if a agent of the original owner picks up the gun.
__________________
CW Shooters Supply Inc
1-502-231-1118
Machine Shop and Finishing Services to the trade and public
guncrank is offline  
Old July 21, 2016, 08:22 PM   #15
dogtown tom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2006
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 1,896
Quote:
carguychris ....but the problem in this case is that SCCY will have to ship the handgun back to the FFL, and the OP will have to do a SECOND transfer and execute a Form 4473 to reclaim it.
Nope. It doesn't matter who actually does the repair, but that it is delivered to the dealer for repair.


Quote:
FITASC
Quote:
Quote:
The only bad thing is you have to take it to a UPS hub,,,
Those little franchise UPS stores won't do this.
Neither will the Fedex/Kinko ones.
FedEx/Kinkos went out of business years ago, it's been FedEx Office since 2008.....and they DO allow firearm shipments. Unlike The UPS Store, FedEx Office locations are company owned, not franchises.

Any FedEx Office location that says they can't ship guns hasn't read their own policies.
__________________
Need a FFL in Dallas/Plano/Allen/Frisco/McKinney ? Just EMAIL me. $20 transfers ($10 for CHL, active military,police,fire or schoolteachers)

Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
dogtown tom is online now  
Old Yesterday, 05:54 AM   #16
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 8,415
Quote:
Originally Posted by carguychris
True, and I've often advocated this approach when selling a handgun out-of-state, but the problem in this case is that SCCY will have to ship the handgun back to the FFL,
No, I don't believe they do.
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old Yesterday, 06:14 AM   #17
Spats McGee
Staff
 
Join Date: July 28, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 6,192
We have a sticky thread on this very topic.
__________________
I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.
Spats McGee is offline  
Old Yesterday, 08:39 AM   #18
carguychris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2007
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 6,562
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogtown tom
It doesn't matter who actually does the repair, but that it is delivered to the dealer for repair.
This seems to contradict the wording of 27 CFR § 478.124 but I've been wrong before. [EDIT: Seems I was, in fact, wrong. ]
Quote:
Originally Posted by guncrank
4473 / NICS are only done transfer of ownership as a sale.
Not exactly. A 4473 is required to get a gun out of hock at a pawn shop, and also to retrieve a gun that's been on consignment at a dealer (one of my local dealers made me sign a form acknowledging this when I put a pistol on consignment). It's based on possession, not ownership.
Quote:
Originally Posted by guncrank
Or if a agent of the original owner picks up the gun.
This is correct.
__________________
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak

Last edited by carguychris; Yesterday at 03:20 PM. Reason: I screwed up! D'OH
carguychris is offline  
Old Yesterday, 11:08 AM   #19
TomNJVA
Member
 
Join Date: January 22, 2014
Location: Floyd, VA
Posts: 73
I appreciate all of your comments! Seems like there is not a full consensus on the details of the transfers, so I'll just take my gun to a local FedEx Customer Service Center and ship it to SCCY. At least I know that's clean and legal, albeit expensive. Perhaps I'll stop at my LGS along the way to see what they can offer, but if I have to pay their normal transfer fee of $32 plus their postage, and do another 4473, I'll just proceed to FedEx.

Tom
__________________
In NJ, the bad guys are armed and the households are alarmed. In VA, the households are armed and the bad guys are alarmed.
TomNJVA is offline  
Old Yesterday, 12:49 PM   #20
guncrank
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2006
Location: Fern Creek ,KY and Metro Louisville at large
Posts: 356
Not exactly. A 4473 is required to get a gun out of hock at a pawn shop, and also to retrieve a gun that's been on consignment at a dealer (one of my local dealers made me sign a form acknowledging this when I put a pistol on consignment). It's based on possession, not ownership.


No wrong assumption
Pawn shop or consignment denotes change of ownership of the firearm as told to me by a IOI.
The FFL owns the gun with a pawn or consignment. Out of pawn or consignment require a 4473/NICS to regain the firearm.

A agent pick up the line , line 11a in not applicable so is not filled out as there is no transfer.

And the answer to your question is Yes , no 4473 needed.
__________________
CW Shooters Supply Inc
1-502-231-1118
Machine Shop and Finishing Services to the trade and public

Last edited by guncrank; Yesterday at 12:59 PM.
guncrank is offline  
Old Yesterday, 12:51 PM   #21
guncrank
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2006
Location: Fern Creek ,KY and Metro Louisville at large
Posts: 356
I appreciate all of your comments! Seems like there is not a full consensus on the details of the transfers, so I'll just take my gun to a local FedEx Customer Service Center and ship it to SCCY. At least I know that's clean and legal, albeit expensive. Perhaps I'll stop at my LGS along the way to see what they can offer, but if I have to pay their normal transfer fee of $32 plus their postage, and do another 4473, I'll just proceed to FedEx.

Tom

You had at least two FFLs tell you that there is no 4473 required but good luck with your repair.
__________________
CW Shooters Supply Inc
1-502-231-1118
Machine Shop and Finishing Services to the trade and public
guncrank is offline  
Old Yesterday, 03:14 PM   #22
dogtown tom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2006
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 1,896
Quote:
guncrank
Quote:
Not exactly. A 4473 is required to get a gun out of hock at a pawn shop, and also to retrieve a gun that's been on consignment at a dealer (one of my local dealers made me sign a form acknowledging this when I put a pistol on consignment). It's based on possession, not ownership.

No wrong assumption
Pawn shop or consignment denotes change of ownership of the firearm as told to me by a IOI.
The FFL owns the gun with a pawn or consignment. Out of pawn or consignment require a 4473/NICS to regain the firearm.
The IOI that told you that is 100% wrong.
1. "Ownership" is not mentioned in any ATF regulation regarding the transfer of a firearm.
2. An FFL does not have an ownership interest in any gun left with him for consignment. He has lawful POSSESSION, not ownership.
3. A 4473 is merely the record of a transfer between a licensee and a buyer/transferee. It has never had anything to do with ownership,
__________________
Need a FFL in Dallas/Plano/Allen/Frisco/McKinney ? Just EMAIL me. $20 transfers ($10 for CHL, active military,police,fire or schoolteachers)

Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
dogtown tom is online now  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2016 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11267 seconds with 9 queries