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Old February 2, 2016, 05:42 PM   #1
Gator Crusader
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Need some advice on my gun next purchase...

Hello all! I am new here at the Firing Line, and I am relatively new to the gun world also. I'll try to keep this question brief and I hope that I'm posting it in the right place here. If not, my apologies!

Anyway, I began my adventure into the world of firearms about 4 years ago, and I decided to keep it simple until I had more range time and experience on the trigger. I purchased in that time 3 revolvers (Ruger SP101 2.5" 357mag for my conceal carry, Taurus 82 full size 38 for range practice, and a Taurus 85 38spl for the wife's concealed carry). In addition, I added the 8 shot Mossberg 500 20" last year.

Here is the issue... Money is somewhat tight but I've got $1000 to play with at this time. I thought about adding a full size 9mm Glock (17 or 19, not sure yet, but the ammo is priced nicely and from all I've read, it's capable in todays tech designs) because I think I'm ready for a semiauto at this point. The problem is that if I go that route I will have to start from scratch with the ammo for that gun, mags too. I've already got a good amount of 357 mag, 38 spl, and 12 Gauge ammo in storage and I've been thinking about the whole "2 is 1, and 1 is none" line of thinking in that maybe I should purchase another Mossberg instead of the Glock or maybe another wheelgun in 357 mag because I wouldn't have to spend as much on ammo? IDK? If I don't buy the Glock with it's need for mags and ammo, I could pick up another Mossberg and still have room for maybe a 22 rifle (Marlin 60 or Ruger 10/22, very cheap to supply).

All of that said, I currently live in a condo about 20-30 minutes from downtown. I may be purchasing a home in the next year or so, but right now I don't know how practical long guns are to my experience, so thus the confusion about my next step. I am just wondering if I'd be better served by getting the combat pistol, investing in the new caliber, and training hard with that instead of the long guns?

I appreciate any advice you might offer me, and I thank you in advance!
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Old February 2, 2016, 06:43 PM   #2
lamarw
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I can't speak for your other firearms, but I also own and like the Mossberg. Mine is a Model 500ATP and was a former Alabama State Patrol scatter gun.

It is my behind the nightstand home protection gun.

Now for your extra spending money. I would highly recommend saving it for the new single family home. Otherwise, I would recommend buying reloading equipment for you handgun calibers.
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Old February 2, 2016, 07:44 PM   #3
Targa
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You already have wheel guns, a shotgun and a grand to play with. Get the 19, you could do much worse, it is an excellent gun. Pick up a .22 rifle like the Marlin 60 you mentioned and still have in the neighborhood of $300 left over. Just my .02.
As for mags, the Glock comes with three of them and as for rounds, check out online retailers like Sportsmansguide, this is where I buy most of mine from. You can pick up 1000 rounds for just over $200 to get you started.

Last edited by Targa; February 2, 2016 at 07:57 PM.
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Old February 2, 2016, 07:57 PM   #4
kilimanjaro
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If money is tight, you already have very adequate, if not very good, arms for self-defense and home defense.

Might want to put the money toward something else and wait for a bit until a bargain comes along.

New homes always need a piece of furniture, a repair here and there, all kinds of stuff. I seem to spend about $500 a year on just lawn and yard stuff, a tool here and there, a trip to the nursery for a new plant, another 100 tulip bulbs, whatever.
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Old February 2, 2016, 10:21 PM   #5
Gator Crusader
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Hey guys, I thank you for taking the time to answer me. Let me just clarify that I have funds coming at a date in the somewhat near future that will be used for the house. Funds I do not have access to now, but should by the end of the year or early next year. I do not require the above mentioned $1,000 to put toward the home.

The reason I am looking to put it toward a firearm or two is simply because we are living in a very tense political environment, and I am concerned about certain elements in DC making it much harder to purchase firearms going forward, specifically a pretty radical President who knows his time is short in the Oval Office (I'm not looking to stir up a political argument, just stating my rational for desiring the purchase of a firearm, especially when considering one with high capacity magazines). I do have as much water and food as I can reasonably squeeze into my two story condo. I have medical and sanitary supplies as well, and at least 4 other people to work with if civil society were to ever implode. I am also considering the purchase of another firearm or two because I believe in force multipliers, ie having a gun to hand out to someone in the group who did not prepare might be a good idea, or being able to run two shotguns instead of one in a crisis may be an advantage we didn't have before?

That kind of thing.

As for the Glock 17 or 19? So many today criticize the revolver for many reasons I am sure you all are more familiar with than I am. I have been told before to get a good modern combat pistol, that it's a necessity in this day and age. So I have been a bit torn over it all. I already have my SP101, which I love and am a good shot with at typical self defense ranges with the medium 357mag ammo that I employ in my EDC, but part of me still feels like I need a bit more just in case... Glock or Shotgun plus 22 rifle? I dunno, maybe I'm just insecure, lol!

Last edited by Gator Crusader; February 2, 2016 at 10:27 PM.
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Old February 2, 2016, 11:40 PM   #6
Kvon2
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Totally depends on the purpose. If you're looking for a fun range gun(what gun isn't), home defense, carry gun, ect...

The most fun I have at the range every time is with my bolt guns. I have one in .22, .223, and 7.62x39. All pretty affordable and the bolt action typically saves me money because I'm less likely to fire shot after shot.

If you're looking at semi-auto pistols the glock is always a go to and for good reason. However, plenty of other companies make awesome similar handguns and you should definitely at least throw them into the mix. Springfield, Smith and Wesson, FNH are just a few I'm also considering for my next purchase around April.
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Old February 3, 2016, 01:29 AM   #7
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Kvon, I definitely like the M&P, Ruger American & SR series, Springfield XDM line, Walther PPQ, and even the higher end Sigs and H&K's. All of them make terrific firearms and are certainly worth serious consideration, which I have given each, but I just like the record of durability and quality one get's from Glock at the price-point they sell at. For the money, they are hard to beat. But if I do go for the semiauto instead of the shogun & 22 rifle, I will handle as many as I can and then make a decision for sure.
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Old February 3, 2016, 01:36 AM   #8
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Targa, that Glock 19 is hard to come by in my neck of the woods. I think the Navy Seals switch from the Sig 226 to the Glock 19 has sent people into a buying frenzy, lol. I may have to get the 17 if I decide to go in this direction, but I don't mind because it has a great service record in and of itself! Plus I'm a big guy and I can conceal almost anything if I have to. Thanks for the tip on ammo!
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Old February 3, 2016, 04:13 AM   #9
themalicious0ne
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I don't mean to stir up the pot here, glock 19/17 is a fine handgun and has a very reliable reputation. That also seems to be the case with your other firearm selections. If you want a semi auto handgun, I think you should consider what you want it for and what you are comfortable with. Are you ok with not having a safety? Would you prefer a Dao trigger or da/sa or anything in between. There are a lot of good options for under a grand and the glock is one of them, but I think you should figure out if that type of platform suits you. There are so many options that you can find exactly what you want instead of buying, (insert name brand here.) If you are going specifically for parts availability and commonality then yes, the glock 19/17 may be the best.

I think that since you have your handgun and shotgun covered, why don't you consider a rifle? You have plenty of close range guns. Not to say that you wouldn't be better served by an auto over a revolver, that is completely conjecture and dependent on your situation. There are a lot of rifles you could purchase in your price range too. Let us pick your brain more, unless of course you want us to just tell you to get the glock.

Edit: I'm sorry, I'm kind of confused about your long gun statement in your OP. I don't know if you mean long range, because your shotgun is also considered a long gun. Also as for a rifle being used in close proximity or home defense, it definitely has merit. There are longstanding debates of which is best between a shotgun, handgun and rifle for home defense and they all have purposes and strong following.

Last edited by themalicious0ne; February 3, 2016 at 04:22 AM.
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Old February 3, 2016, 04:58 AM   #10
Nathan
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A couple of thoughts. . .a Glock 17/19 is a great gun, but does it fit your hand, do you shoot it well, etc? Would you prefer a 1911? You are not to far away from Dan Wesson heritage territory and that is truely a nice gun. ....or is a cz75 better? Another great gun.

In addition to that,Nyla talk about political motivations....well, it is a good time to close the deal on an ar15. Prices are at a historical low and the guns are great quality, in general.

Either direction, 9mm, 45 auto or 5.56 will allow much more shooting per $ than 357 mag.
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Old February 3, 2016, 08:31 AM   #11
Gator Crusader
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Hey guys, thanks for responding. I haven't really considered a rifle in a centerfire caliber for two reasons, the first being I have absolutely zero experience with them and wouldn't even know where to begin, and secondly, given where I live (a condo in the city), I can't imagine a scenario where I need to (or should be from a legal standpoint) reaching out hundreds of yards to shoot someone I think is a threat. If I'm that far away, I think I will either use that distance and time to make an exit and avoid a confrontation or use the time and distance to secure my location and ready myself. I'm not looking for a fight because I am keenly aware of my limitations. I am not a soldier (and may God bless & keep those of you who are, you are far better men than I). I'm just a guy looking to do what he can given his circumstances.

I'm not saying that you have to be a soldier to use an AR or AK effectively, I'm just not sure they are the right chouce for me in my current environment?

Also, I am definitely not looking for anyone to just tell me to buy the Glock either. I just like it's reputation for simplicity of use and durability, which I know can also be found in other brands. I just like what I see from Glock at it's price-point.

But honestly, I am beginning to think that based on the advice here, I may be barking up the wrong tree. Maybe I do not need a semiauto or a second shotgun for back up? Maybe I should just focus on aquiring more ammo and a few accessories for what I already do own and call it a day?

Tough decision!

Last edited by Gator Crusader; February 3, 2016 at 08:37 AM.
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Old February 3, 2016, 08:37 AM   #12
Kvon2
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So I absolutely agree on the durability/reliability of the glock and would never tell someone not to get one. But how many of us are really going to be torture testing our hand guns?
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Old February 3, 2016, 09:15 AM   #13
drobs
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Regarding the non-availability of Glock 19's in your area, Gunbroker has a handy FFL Finder where you type in your zip code.
www.gunbroker.com/FFL/DealerNetwork.aspx

You might find you have some coffee table gun dealers nearby that charge less for transfers. $20 is about the norm for FFL transfers where I live in S. Missouri. When I lived in the Chicago area $50 was the norm w/ some gun shops refusing to do them altogether on new guns.

I recommend you email or call the FFL's closest (based on the list from GB) to you to double check they will do transfers on new & used guns bought from Gunbroker or Bud's and what they charge for their transfers.

Once you have a local dealer set up you can then buy guns on the internet and not be limited to what's available at the local gun shops. Prices can be better if you shop around.

Regarding the political climate - I'd recommend you look into a semi-auto magazine fed rifle in a military rifle caliber (.223/5.56, .308/7.62x51, 5.45x39 or 7.62x39). AR's and AK's are affordable right now. That could change on a whim. Now would be the time to buy one.

Rifle caliber semi-auto rifles offer range, capacity, accuracy, and barrier penetration. Rifle calibers will turn what is thought to be cover into concealment. As far a learning and shooting a rifle caliber - while not ideal, some indoor ranges have backstops that will handle rifle calibers. Otherwise you'll want to look for an outdoor range. Various ranges have training classes available.

You might look into a Hunter Safety class or find a NRA Certified Instructor to give you a class on handling rifles. Otherwise youtube has plenty of instructional videos to review.
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Old February 3, 2016, 09:25 AM   #14
Jim Watson
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Do you have a place to shoot?
Maybe your windfall would be better spent on range membership.

I shoot the Plastic M&P instead of a Glock, but the idea of a simple service pistol remains. Hard to argue against it and there are a lot of choices.

You might also look at a full size revolver, Smith K or L frame or Ruger GP.

.22 rifles are inexpensive, you can squeeze one of them out of the butter and egg money. Jeff Cooper said you can learn about 80% of what you need to know with a .22.
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Old February 3, 2016, 09:26 AM   #15
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Since you're not going to be carrying any long-guns out in public and you've got your CCW pieces already... maybe some general improvements in home security would be a better way to spend money. Upgraded door locks and bolt/hinge reinforcement, security system, CCTV, safe room, dog, intercom, motion detection lights, etc... making your home a hardened target of "criminals don't bother" deterrence comes way before they get to your bedroom where you and the family are hunkered down behind a barrier on the phone with police... with your guns trained on the door of course.

Of course anybody can come up with a crazy scenario whereby no amount of prep and planning will help, but the members of my family all know what to do during the proverbial "bump in the night"... and none of that involves anybody going downstairs looking for the perp. We all hole up while I cover the stairs and the wife backs me up on the phone with her gun... with the alarm screaming, me shouting, and the dog barking his ass off. The police can search my downstairs, yard, and neighborhood while I stay nice and safe upstairs and will come down when it's all over.

And I 100% agree with getting a .22lr rifle. In addition to great training, it's an easy way to convince somebody to go shooting with you if you have something they can learn easily and is very forgiving. A Savage MKii bolt-action is a no-brainer... very accurate out of the box, and the Accutrigger models are sweetness. Plenty of choices under $200 and Savage has their perpetual $25 factory rebate on MKii's. CCI Standard Velocity is a budget accuracy round, but you probably know somebody with a stash of .22lr that you can try a bunch of different ammo's and find one that the gun likes best. I have a MKii FVSR with a Nikon 3-9 Rimfire scope that shoots dimes at 50yds with CCI SV... I love it and put at least a box or two through it every time I go shooting no matter what else I take with me... usually at the end of the day to slow my roll and just have fun.

Last edited by SamNavy; February 3, 2016 at 09:35 AM.
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Old February 3, 2016, 10:07 AM   #16
Gator Crusader
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Some great points there fellas! The more I talk to people the more I hear good things about the various 22LR rifles, usually the Marlin 60 & the Ruger 10/22, but the Savage MKII sounds nice with the accu-trigger deal going for it. I think I am definitely going to pick one up no matter what I decide to do about the sidearm. I agree about the shotgun too. I already have one and it's not like I can carry it around much. Think I'll pass on the back up shotty for now.

I've been doing some research this morning, and I realize what a sucker I am for wheelguns, lol. Been gawking over the beautiful Ruger GP100 "Match Champion", which is not only a versatile survival gun in two powerful calibers I already have stockpiled, but it would be a lot of fun to shoot at the range too! Hmm, still though, might not be as practical as a modern semiauto? Tough call here...
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Old February 3, 2016, 11:45 AM   #17
kilimanjaro
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Well, if you're looking at TEOTWAKI, in a social implosion kind of thing, better get your house soon, as possession will be the proverbial nine tenths once the country descends into anarchy and bandenkrieg !

For urban neighborhood defense, given your ability to field a squad, the centerfire rifle in 5.56/.223 is exactly your cup of java. You should be able to get a nice AR15, Colt or similar, with a few extra magazines, and a case of 500 rounds of ammo for your $1,000.

For long-range work, just get a good deer rifle with scope, in .308, .270, or .30/06.

Get the .22LR no matter what, lots of fun and good plinking to be had. Ruger 10/22's and Glenfield Model 60's can be had for about $175.
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Old February 3, 2016, 01:18 PM   #18
Gator Crusader
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Well, it may not matter much but I do own the condo I live in. It is not a rental so I suppose that much is good.

Again, I'd consider the rifle but I can't see myself using it inside the condo, I've got the Mossberg 500 for sweeping rooms clean in a bad spot, and I'm thinking more "gray man" philosophy when out of the house during a national crisis. Like I said above, I'm not a soldier so I am neither comfortable nor trained to be engaging potential enemies at long distances. In other words, if I find myself truly needing a combat rifle, I'm probably dead anyway with or without one. I don't want to draw a lot of attention to myself when outside because my gut tells me that we are far more likely to be dealing with EROL (Excessive Rule Of Law) rather than WROL (Without Rule Of Law) if things go south.

But maybe I'm wrong? I will certainly look into the merits of owning a combat rifle. I know that I have much to learn and I do appreciate your advice!

Last edited by Gator Crusader; February 3, 2016 at 01:24 PM.
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Old February 3, 2016, 02:48 PM   #19
themalicious0ne
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I agree with the above posters. A 22 lr is a great addition to have and will teach you basics by allowing you to shoot properly and effectively at a low price point and without recoil.

The reason we all are saying you should consider an AR is because the price point of the rifle and ammo. I just helped a friend build a rifle for under $500 and ammo is cheaper than 38spl and even 9mm sometimes. Also it takes much more skill to work a pump shotgun properly than it does an ar. You have to be careful not to short stroke the shotgun as well as practice reloading it. The ar is more powerful than your handguns and you can have 30 rounds on tap. In confined spaces you do need to aim a shotgun because the spread is small at close range. Another thing, living in a condo, 00 buck will penetrate a lot of walls. Think neighbors here. #4 buck seems to be the best for efficiency and limited wall penetration. If loading your ar with soft points you will get even less penetration. The round will fragment and break up into smaller pieces which will limit it's momentum due to weight. The shotgun is tops in power close range but sometimes there are other things to consider. I'm not saying the ar is be all end all for close range encounters as it is an intermediate caliber but it is effective enough, easier to manipulate than a shotgun, lighter, more rounds and can have less penetration. This is why you see teams of professionals using the shotgun less and the ar more.
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Old February 3, 2016, 08:32 PM   #20
Kvon2
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I have a savage mkII and it is spectacular. Highly recommend it.
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Old February 3, 2016, 11:12 PM   #21
Gator Crusader
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I haven't had any difficulty running the pump shotgun. I find it's manual of arms rather simple. I'm not against combat rifles, but as I've said a couple of times above, I just don't see myself shooting to kill from a few hundred yards away. I'm thinking EROL rather than WROL. I'm thinking more "gray man" so I don't envision carrying a long gun for very long outdoors. Just my take on it, but I appreciate your opinion and input.

Kvon2, I will definitely check out the Savage MKII 22, thanks for the tip!
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Old February 4, 2016, 02:11 AM   #22
drobs
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Step outside your condo or house, walk / drive out the main road, and look left and then right. That's your 100yds to 400yds. Drive on a highway to work or vacation - that's your 100+ yards. Become a rifleman - learn something new.

I too believe in having preparations / supplies - a long term food supply, water, heat, medical supplies, etc. I also believe in having hands on knowledge = experience.

Preppers, or whatever you want to call them, have pet scenarios. Don't get hung up on a pet scenario - prepare for everything. You can't predict the future. Part of preparation is not limiting yourself.
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Old February 4, 2016, 04:41 AM   #23
Nathan
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I think you are over stating the combat rifle point. A combat rifle is something used in combat. An AR15 is just a Modern Sporting Rifle.

If something goes bump in the night, it would be nice to have a short ar15....something with a light, a good dot sight, enhance pointability and 30+ rounds at hand. Marines prefer it inside of homes too.
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Old February 4, 2016, 07:58 AM   #24
Gator Crusader
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Marines and other highly trained & experienced military personnel probably do prefer a rifle in the vast majority of situations, no doubt, but I'm not a marine. I'm just a regular everyday joe sixpack. If we are in such a meltdown that I'm walking around in the streets with a rifle and striking out a potential threats from 400 yards away, then I'm probably toast to begin with precisely because I am not a soldier and even many of them will die in such a world. The problem is that you cannot plan or prep for every scenario. You might think you've got all of your bases covered, but life will often beg to differ.

I'm working on buiding a solid defense against intruders to my domain. I have no illusions about engaging experienced baddies in long distance fire-fights that even professionals would struggle to survive. No Sir, I'd use that time & distance to make myself scarce.

Right now I'm just looking to get the basics together, and in my view, for my situation at this time, the rifle just isn't a priority. For you it may be. Nothing wrong with that.

Last edited by Gator Crusader; February 4, 2016 at 08:11 AM.
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Old February 4, 2016, 08:40 AM   #25
Nathan
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I too have no thoughts of prepping or even exiting my home....i hear you loud and clear and respect your decision to avoid a rifle. I was only mentioning it because I felt you were discounting it's in home effectiveness and greater safety/ease of use over the shotgun, especially for your better half...No issues though.

Looking only at handguns, i really like xd over Glock due to stock sights, grip, shootability, safety, etc. I'm also leaning cz75 with my next pile of cash...
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