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Old March 13, 2009, 12:29 AM   #1
jimpeel
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It didn't take long for the call to go out ...

but it never does.

This article, slated for the WSJ tomorrow, shows the propensity of the antis to immediately glom onto any tragedy to further their agenda. The tragedy in Alabama is no exception. The article also includes a picture of the weapon types the shooter used.

There is good news in the article in that many Democrats who would normally be in favor of more stringent firearms controls are backing away from such measures. Harry Reid says he will not support a new AWB and apparently did not support the last one or the renewal. Pelosi is of like mind on new legislation. Neither want to have a pro firearms control record being held against them at their next election.

Apparently, Dianne Feinstein and Carolyn McCarthy have no such concerns.

SOURCE

Quote:
MARCH 13, 2009

New Calls for Assault-Gun Ban

By ALEX ROTH, PAULO PRADA and COREY DADE

Gun-control activists have renewed calls for the federal government to reinstate a ban on so-called assault weapons in the wake of Tuesday's deadly shooting rampage in Alabama.

Stricter national gun-control laws face dim prospects in Washington, however, despite Democratic control of Congress and the White House.

Gun sales have soared in the months since the presidential election, due in part to fears among gun owners that President Barack Obama intends to ban assault weapons, or guns that can fire rounds more quickly than standard weapons.

In November, a record 1,529,635 background checks were performed on firearms sales, up 42% from the same period a year earlier, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation. A 24% year-over-year increase followed in December, with similar increases so far this year.

Background checks are considered a measure of sales because they are required during any sale of a new weapon from a federally licensed retailer, or if a weapon is sold or reclaimed from a pawn shop.

While Mr. Obama supports reinstating the assault-weapons ban, he also is confronting numerous other matters, such as the economy and health care.

He also would face stiff opposition in Congress from his own party. In recent weeks, powerful Democrats, including Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D., Nev.) and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D., Calif.), have expressed opposition to renewing the federal assault-weapons ban, which was enacted in 1994 under President Bill Clinton. The ban bars the sale of certain semiautomatic weapons. The law expired in 2004.

Earlier this month, the two Democratic senators from Montana, Max Baucus and Jon Tester, wrote to Attorney General Eric Holder after Mr. Holder suggested a ban would help reduce drug violence in Mexico by preventing the flow of assault rifles across the border. Their letter urged the Justice Department to "enforce existing laws before it considers imposing any new restrictions on gun ownership."

"Democrats have finally gotten it," said Larry Sabato, director of the University of Virginia's Center for Politics. "The message they've gotten is if they become gun-control advocates, they are going to suffer at the polls."

Mr. Reid is expected to face a stiff 2010 re-election fight in a state famous for its fondness for guns. A spokesman for Mr. Reid said Thursday that the senator voted against the ban in 1994, opposed its renewal in 2004 and "would not support it if the Senate votes on it in the future."

Gun-control advocates say Tuesday's bloody spree, in which 28-year-old Michael McLendon killed 10 people in southeastern Alabama before committing suicide, offers strong evidence of the need for an assault-weapons ban. Mr. McLendon used two assault rifles—an SKS and a Bushmaster—along with a shotgun and a .38-caliber handgun to fell his victims, according to the Alabama Department of Public Safety. He appeared to overwhelm police in an area where many citizens also own guns, for hunting or self-defense.

The weapons used in the Alabama shootings "are military-bred firearms developed for the specific purpose of killing human beings quickly and efficiently," wrote a coalition of groups, including the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, in a joint release on Wednesday. "Today we call on the U.S. Congress to pass a federal assault weapons ban."

On Thursday, the office of U.S. Rep. Carolyn McCarthy of Long Island, whose husband was killed by a deranged gunman on the Long Island Rail Road in 1993, said she intends to introduce a bill that would reinstitute a version of the 1994 assault-weapons ban.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D., Calif.) said she is considering introducing a bill to renew the ban "with the recognition that it will be an uphill fight."

Under current federal law, anyone over 18 years old can buy a semiautomatic assault rifle from a licensed gun dealer as long as the buyer passes a background check verifying that he or she isn't a convicted felon or mentally ill, among other things. Unlicensed dealers, such as those at gun shows, may sell semiautomatic assault rifles to anyone of any age without conducting a background check.

Gun owners in Alabama are required to possess a license only for carrying a concealed handgun. Mr. McLendon had a concealed-weapons handgun permit, according to a spokeswoman for the Geneva, Ala., police department.

Whether the expired federal law would have banned the particular semiautomatic assault rifles that Mr. McLendon is alleged to have used is unclear. The law banned certain specific types of weapons, including TEC-9s and Uzis, as well as "copy" or "duplicate" weapons.

People seeking to stock up on the types of weapons that would likely be targeted by any ban—semiautomatic weapons, sometimes known as "black guns" or "black rifles"—have flocked to purchase them.

"The manufacturers are having a hard time filling orders for black guns and the retailers are having difficulty replenishing their inventory," said Rob Southwick, president of Southwick Associates, a fish and wildlife economics research firm in Fernandina Beach, Fla.
—Dan Fitzpatrick and Timothy Farnam contributed to this article.

Write to Alex Roth at alex.roth@wsj.com, Paulo Prada at paulo.prada@wsj.com and Corey Dade at corey.dade@wsj.com
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Old March 13, 2009, 03:06 AM   #2
Ben Towe
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Pelosi opposes renewing assault weapons ban? Has her brain suddenly started working? That just about floored me!
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Old March 13, 2009, 04:36 AM   #3
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Well of course there are those who will call for reinstating the AWB. They view guns much in the same way others would view Ford Pintos or nuclear power plants. They think they are doing society a favor.

Quote:
Pelosi opposes renewing assault weapons ban? Has her brain suddenly started working? That just about floored me!
Apparently, you are not up on current events. With that said, insulting someone in power who was a former enemy and who is now showing a shifting of views in our favor isn't a good way to show appreciation or welcome that person to our side. Certainly Pelosi is in a position of some significance and that if motivated in the wrong way, could make things very difficult for us.
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Old March 13, 2009, 07:53 AM   #4
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If the democratic party went pro gun I think they would lay waste to the republicans and never have to worry about purse strings again.
I still wouldn't vote for them as much as Republicans, but I think many would. Maybe I would, I plan to vote for Strickland.

What congress has not had these issues brought up? I think this round is still pandering for special interest groups.
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Old March 13, 2009, 11:20 AM   #5
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From the Article:

Quote:
Unlicensed dealers, such as those at gun shows, may sell semiautomatic assault rifles to anyone of any age without conducting a background check.
Being an unlicensed dealer is a crime and as such can't legally operate a business selling firearms. Dealers at gun shows have to do background checks.

I know we all know this but I just wanted to vent.
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Old March 13, 2009, 11:27 AM   #6
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I think a lot of people have unintentionally mischaracterized what Pelosi actually said, and have morphed that into the idea that she opposes the AWB. The only thing Pelosi said when asked, was that she hadn't been consulted and then said the following:
Quote:
“On that score, I think we need to enforce the laws we have right now. I think it's clear the Bush administration didn’t do that.”
I think it's dangerous for the pro gun community to relax and think that those words mean anything more that that. She was more likely miffed that the White House didn't consult with her first, and she reacted to "not being in the know" moreso than she did actually throw cold water on the idea of a renewal.

Be vigilant. This type of misdirection is the method of the day.

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Old March 13, 2009, 11:33 AM   #7
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Let's not go thinking that Pelosi actually supports the RKBA.

She doesn't want to try a new AWB for two possible reasons:

1. She doesn't have the votes to get one passed in the house because of the many pro gun congressman from her party.

2. Gun control has been a losing issue for her party for 15 years. And she knows that even an attempt to pass new gun control will likely cost her party seats in the next election. Not to mention the history of the presidential party in midterm elections is not good. She certainly doesn't want to add to possible losses come election day.

The decision by Pelosi is purely political and has nothing to do with any new found support for the RKBA. If she had the votes and political captial she would certainly try and pass the most restrictive gun control she could.
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Old March 13, 2009, 02:04 PM   #8
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"Military-bred firearms"? I wish I could get my guns to breed. And of course highly selective outrage. A few years ago a policeman in Ocean County NJ killed 5 people with a department submachine gun. How much did you hear about that?
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Old March 13, 2009, 02:56 PM   #9
vranasaurus
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Quote:
"Military-bred firearms"? I wish I could get my guns to breed.
Me too! I would definitely need a bigger gun safe.
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Old March 13, 2009, 03:32 PM   #10
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Don't believe for a minute the leopard has changed its spots

Reid, Pelosi, et. al haven't changed anything, except their visible public activism. They are simply letting other, lower ranking party members be their stalking horses on the gun control issue. Opening their mouths now would do them more harm than good, and they know it. So they don't.

rest assured that if they saw they could do it (51% Mr & MRS America, Turn 'em all in!) they would do it in a heartbeat.

While gun control may be an issue of personal satisfaction for these people, their agenda is bigger than that, and they are willing, for now, to bide their time.
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Old March 13, 2009, 03:45 PM   #11
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From the Article:

Quote:
Stricter national gun-control laws face dim prospects in Washington, however, despite Democratic control of Congress and the White House.
Notice how these authors understand which party is typically for gun control vs. gun rights. That's not to say every democrat politician is for more gun control, or that every republican politician is against it. However, in a general sense, the democrats have long been the party of "gun control", a fact that these reporters obviously recognize. However, to gain control of congress, the democrats ran more candidates referred to as Blue Dog democrats, and who tend to favor gun rights more than gun control. Nancy Pelosi has recognized that fact.

Quote:
Gun sales have soared in the months since the presidential election, due in part to fears among gun owners that President Barack Obama intends to ban assault weapons, or guns that can fire rounds more quickly than standard weapons.
What about semiautomatic high powered rifles such as Browings BAR, and Remington 7400's? What about Remington R15's and R25's. Are these not "standard" weapons? This is either pure BS or ignorance on the part of the authors. I wish we could have every journalism student go through firearms safety training where they could unindoctrinate their fear and misunderstanding of common firearms and common types of firearms. It would go a long way towards further protection of our RKBA.
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Old March 13, 2009, 04:39 PM   #12
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I found it disturbing that they mentioned this:
Quote:
Gun owners in Alabama are required to possess a license only for carrying a concealed handgun. Mr. McLendon had a concealed-weapons handgun permit, according to a spokeswoman for the Geneva, Ala., police department.
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Old March 13, 2009, 05:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
"Military-bred firearms"
Let's see now, military-bred firearms....I have,

1. Colt 2nd Gen 1st model Dragoon
2. Colt SAA in .45 LC
3. Four, yes four, 1911s
4. Winchester 1886 in 45-70 (military firearm and military ammo)
5. Colt Peacemaker .22/.22 mag (based on the SAA)
6. Winchester Model 12
7. Mossberg 12 gu.
8. M1 Garand (but it only hold 8)
9. Many more, including some "evil black firearms"...

etc,....you get my point. All firearms are "Military-bred" firearms.

Quote:
Gun sales have soared in the months since the presidential election, due in part to fears among gun owners that President Barack Obama intends to ban assault weapons, or guns that can fire rounds more quickly than standard weapons.
Bet I can fire off rounds with either my Winchester 74 or 77 tube-fed .22s just as fast as anyone with an AR or SKS, and if I hold the trigger on my old model 12 shotgun, it will fire just as fast as I can pump it

dum-basses.

Nunya

Last edited by Nunya53; March 13, 2009 at 05:49 PM.
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Old March 13, 2009, 06:51 PM   #14
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Quote:
Pelosi opposes renewing assault weapons ban? Has her brain suddenly started working? That just about floored me!
Pelosi would sell her soul to stay in power, which, as far as the 2nd Amendment goes, is just fine by me. She knows that gun bans lose votes.
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Old March 13, 2009, 07:49 PM   #15
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giving up

I have about given up on the anti's opening their eyes and seeing that these perpetrators pick targets that they know have no guns to oppose them. If there were going to be firearms brought in to play against them most of these crimes would not happen. If they would notice police stations or other places where they know they will be facing guns are avoided. Carrying this over to CCW if the criminals know there is a ban on civilians having guns they are not afraid to victimize individuals but if there is a chance a person might be armed they will avoid them. Maybe the only way that the anti's will see logic is for them to pass a bill where they can get free vision care for themselves. I hope someday they will open their other eye and see reality. stay safe
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Old March 13, 2009, 08:24 PM   #16
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Quote:
Reid, Pelosi, et. al haven't changed anything, except their visible public activism. They are simply letting other, lower ranking party members be their stalking horses on the gun control issue.
I don't know why everyone equates Reid to Pelosi on the gun issue.

Senator Reid voted against the 1994 AWB and has said he doesn't support bringing the AWB back.
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Old March 14, 2009, 01:52 AM   #17
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Quote:
On Thursday, the office of U.S. Rep. Carolyn McCarthy of Long Island, whose husband was killed by a deranged gunman on the Long Island Rail Road in 1993, said she intends to introduce a bill that would reinstitute a version of the 1994 assault-weapons ban.
But of course it was the guns fault. It had nothing to do with the "deranged" man or anything else of that nature.
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Old March 14, 2009, 10:01 PM   #18
jimpeel
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Or the fact that he only targeted people who were not like him.
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm.

"Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare

"Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed"
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Old March 14, 2009, 11:36 PM   #19
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+1 re: Pelosi and Reid.

The fact that Reid didn't support the AWB and didn't vote to resurrect it only reflects his desire to stay in office, not any idealogical or philisophical stance in support of the 2A right.

IF... IF the Dems push any kind of AWB, our opposition to it should be swift, adamant and overwhelming. That means not only flooding Congress with letters saying "no", but Hell NO!, but getting the ear of every media person to tell them that we will vote the entire bunch out at the polls. We can be civil in our communications and still get the ire across.

Politicians fear organized and angry consituents because they can drum up support for a different candidate.

Quote:
Unlicensed dealers, such as those at gun shows, may sell semiautomatic assault rifles to anyone of any age without conducting a background check.
I'm sure we are all aware that the term "unlicensed dealer" is Brady propaganda speech for "private party seller". There are no "dealers" in the U.S. who are unlicensed unless they are criminal violators of the law. But in many states, two citizens transacting a gun by themselves is completely legal without involving an FFL.
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Old March 15, 2009, 01:53 AM   #20
jimpeel
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Pelosi is against the AWB being re-instituted because she remembers these words:

Quote:
"I don't think it's a secret to anybody in this room that several members of the last Congress who voted for [the Brady bill and the assault weapons ban] aren't here tonight because they voted for it. . . . [A] lot of people laid down their seats in Congress."
-- William Jefferson Clinton, State of the Union Address, January 24, 1995
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm.

"Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare

"Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed"
-- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey
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Old March 15, 2009, 02:00 AM   #21
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Quote:
The fact that Reid didn't support the AWB and didn't vote to resurrect it only reflects his desire to stay in office, not any idealogical or philisophical stance in support of the 2A right.
So what?

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Old March 15, 2009, 07:10 AM   #22
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Quote:
So what?
Right, does it really matter what their true views are so long as they don't vote against us? It is their votes that matter.
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Old March 15, 2009, 11:36 AM   #23
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That's right, that's right. Principles don't matter, votes do.
Anybody else see any relation between that philosophy and where we are today?
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Old March 15, 2009, 11:53 AM   #24
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That's right, principles matter. That's why George W. Bush's failure to truly push for the AWB that he supported shows that he was a man of NO principles.

My, am I getting political or historical?

Politicians play political games. If we want a reasonable atmosphere for gun rights, we cannot commit political suicide.

Both parties have extreme loonies that are antithetical to liberty. The GOP nuts want to control the crotches of American and the Democratic nuts want to control the guns. Give each side a strong majority and tyranny will surface.

Of course, if you believe in one of those tyrannies, you are just fine in oppressing the people on that dimension.
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Old March 15, 2009, 03:06 PM   #25
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From the NY Times:

March 15, 2009
On the Hill
Issue of Gun Rights Still Holds Sway
By CARL HULSE

Democrats have been exorcising some of their most stubborn political demons of late.

In challenging former President George W. Bush over the war in Iraq, they showed they were overcoming their deep post-Vietnam fear of being painted as weak on defense when taking a strong anti-war stance. Now, exhibiting comfort with rolling back Bush-era tax cuts, Democrats seem to be losing their anxiety about the tax-and-spend label.

But there is one issue that retains the power to leave Democrats quivering: gun rights. Gun issues still persistently tie the party in knots and have been used by Republicans to stall two major bills this year, with more likely to come.

“It is a hot-button issue,” said Representative Allen Boyd, Democrat of Florida, a longtime hunter and one of the moderates who typically split from the more liberal wing of the party to support the rights of gun owners. “Some people around here know they can use it as a wedge issue, and they try to do that.”

It is a particularly hot-button topic with veteran Congressional Democrats who believe the party’s strong support for a 1994 assault weapons ban was the real reason they lost control of the House that year — not the House bank scandal, the failed health care initiative, the Contract with America or Newt Gingrich.

The power of that bad memory was unmistakable a few weeks ago in the immediacy with which Speaker Nancy Pelosi shot down the suggestion by new Attorney General Eric Holder that Congress might reinstitute the assault weapons ban.

“On that score, I think we need to enforce the laws we have right now,” said Ms. Pelosi, echoing the position often taken by advocates of gun rights.

Gun rights are probably equaled only by abortion rights in their ability to split Democrats and create political havoc.

Well aware of the Democratic sensitivity on guns and the reluctance of suburban and rural lawmakers to cast any vote that could be perceived as anti-gun, Republicans see the issue as one of their most effective poison pills to sabotage legislation. They were able to add an expansion of gun ownership in the District of Columbia to a long-sought measure giving the district a full-voting seat in the House of Representatives. Now the gun issue is an anchor on the bill in the House.

Democrats also came up just short of winning approval of a public lands bill this week because of three Democratic holdouts. They were influenced in part by concerns that the bill would upset gun owners even though the National Rifle Association had already signed off after a promise that the bill would not curtail hunting on federal land.

Democratic leaders admit they are confounded by the mounting problems with gun votes and are trying to find a way out of a situation that is partly a product of their own success. The wider their majority, the more members Democrats have from swing districts where gun rights are likely to be a prominent issue.

One of those members, Representative Travis Childers of Mississippi, last year was able to win House approval of his plan to let residents of the District of Columbia buy and keep guns in their homes for self-protection, a further retreat from the district’s virtually universal ban on legal handgun ownership that had already been relaxed by the Supreme Court.

“The Second Amendment right is a long-standing pillar in our system of government, and I believe law-abiding citizens should have the right to defend their homes in the District of Columbia, just like they have the ability to do so in the First Congressional District of Mississippi,” said Mr. Childers, who persuaded 81 other Democrats to side with him.

Democratic leaders say that baseline of 80 or so Democrats has undoubtedly grown, given gains in moderate districts last November, providing a solid House majority for gun rights when combined when strong support among Republicans. The cultural shift is pronounced — this week’s mass shootings in Alabama and Germany stirred hardly a Congressional call for new gun restrictions, a contrast from past episodes.

Even with important legislation on the line, Ms. Pelosi and other Democratic leaders seem unwilling to demand that Democrats with a record of backing gun rights relent when the issue is secondary, as is the case with the District of Columbia voting-rights bill.

“Members come here to represent their districts, and I respect that,” Ms. Pelosi said.

And the fact is many conservative and moderate Democrats are not simply acting out of worry of getting a black mark from the N.R.A — they are hunters and sportsmen and strongly believe in the right to own and bear arms.

But what some Democratic leaders fear is that Republicans are taking better advantage of the party divide on the subject and will step up their use of gun rights to derail other issues in the months ahead.

Mr. Boyd, the Florida lawmaker, said that Democrats cannot let that happen.

“The truth is this administration and this Congress have some very serious economic problems to deal with and we are going to get through them,” he said. “Hopefully we will work around these distractions.”

I have said it before, and will say it again...the gun war is won in the trenches. Your local congresscritter is your best friend. For the price of a cheap gun, $250 paid into his campaign coffers, you will have your voice heard. If he is on the fence, the local gun club with cash in hand can make a difference, as will letters from all your shooting buddies.

Screw principles in politics. Its all about getting elected. Less whining here, less screeching and more activism is the key.

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