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Old March 11, 2009, 08:07 PM   #1
Littlehoov
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Good 9mm hunting round?

I can already feel most of you firing up your flamethrowers upon reading the title of the post, but please let me say my peace.


I just bought a Hi-Point C9 (flames are getting hotter) and once I get used to shooting it, I wouldnt mind taking it as a sidearm when I go deer hunting. My primary deer gun is a Remington 700 ADL shooting in .243 Winchester....the 9 would only come into play on close shots probably 30 yds or less, and on smaller deer, probably less than 150 pounds. I would not shoot a trophy whitetail buck with anything other than my .243 unless circumstances were dire.

Oh, its also perfectly legal to shoot a deer with a 9mm here in the state of Missouri, so lets get that comment out of the way too.

Now then, Ive done some looking around already and I for one like the Black Hills 124 gr. +P JHP load....at least on paper anyway, it tops any of the ballistics charts Ive seen for energy at 50 yds. Its also reasonably priced and you get 50 rds for about the same price as 20 in other similar rounds.

I will be shooting the famed "Walmart white box" ammo for target practice, but Id like to have some ammo on hand for deer, and God forbid I have to shoot someone, Id like it to function well for that too.

*zips up firefighting bunker gear*
thanks in advance.
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Old March 11, 2009, 08:15 PM   #2
cavediver27
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What a stupid thing to even think:barf:

The 9mm is NOT a hunting round by any stretch of the imagination. You could NEVER rely on it to provide a clean and humane kill. If you are some sort of sick minded person and into crippling and wounding deer to die a cruel death then you will meet your goal.

Use the correct weapon for the job, something like the .243 Win you say you have.

Yeah, the flaming has started.
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Old March 11, 2009, 08:24 PM   #3
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Setting ethics and morals aside for a moment, a well-placed shot with a good 9mm bullet would no doubt do the job, but I'm not good enough to try that at even 30 yards. Maybe if the deer was right in front of me and getting to my sidearm would be more practical than raising my rifle. Seems to me the effective range would be somewhat less than the common archery shot.
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Old March 11, 2009, 08:27 PM   #4
jdncsu
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hell i dont think either round you are planning to fire is powerful enough...
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Old March 11, 2009, 08:51 PM   #5
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Join us next week when we will cover "Moose Hunting With A .22".
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Old March 11, 2009, 08:51 PM   #6
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What is the definition of a clean and humane kill? Where they fall in their tracks lifeless? Because that doesnt happen very often with any gun. Most deer run for quite a ways before they die even when fatally wonded, Ive seen them run pretty good distances with a completely shattered front shoulder.

I wont even address the comment about the .243, because thats just....yeah.


As awaveritt said the range would defintely be less than the common archery shot, which nowadays is about 50-60 yds max. So I think inside 30 is a decent estimate. I dont know what a deer looks like at 30 yds through pistol sights, I might not even feel comfortable taking the shot.

It just seems entirely possible to me. The 9mm is a superior round to the .38 Special, and Ive heard many a story about deer being brought down with those. Also, Ive seen firsthand what a .357 Mag does to a deer as my father has shot several with his. I know the 9mm is not as powerful as the .357 but its the same caliber bullet and many of the 9mm loads arent too far from .357 territory as far as ballistic numbers. I realize that doesnt always mean real world results though.

It just doesnt make sense to me that people trust the 9mm to bring down a full-sized man, which weigh as much as a very large whitetail or sometimes considerably more. But they turn up their noses at the thought of shooting a deer with it.

Ive seen how a whitetail is put together, I dont see any tremendous difference between it and a human being. Their skin is not that thick, and their bones arent any bigger than ours really.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, what would be the best round to attempt such a thing with?
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Old March 11, 2009, 08:57 PM   #7
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While I am new to the auto pistols forum, deer hunting is not a new endeavor for me at all. As far as most deer running after a shot, yes it happens with well placed shots. Long distances with shattered shoulders? Maybe you should step up from the 243, bot that the 243 isn't an adequate round.

The 9mm? Come on. You can't be serious.
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Old March 11, 2009, 08:59 PM   #8
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"ve seen how a whitetail is put together, I dont see any tremendous difference between it and a human being. Their skin is not that thick, and their bones arent any bigger than ours really."

You're not doing it right.
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Old March 11, 2009, 08:59 PM   #9
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Probably Extreme Shock.
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Old March 11, 2009, 09:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
"ve seen how a whitetail is put together, I dont see any tremendous difference between it and a human being. Their skin is not that thick, and their bones arent any bigger than ours really."

Have you ever seen the carnage when a car, van or suv hits a deer?? The vehicle can often be totaled while the deer runs off and needs to be put down.
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Old March 11, 2009, 09:39 PM   #11
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So were you guys and gals gonna offer any potential ammo choices?

I realize its not a good choice, so I dont need the lecturing, all Im asking if I did completely go off my rocker and decide to shoot at a deer what would be a good round to send down the barrel?

I realize that deer are hardy creatures, yes Ive seen them hit by cars and walk away. Ive seen them run for pretty good distances even after being hit by 7mm Rem Mags and 30-06 but I suppose those probably aren't big enough for Whitetails either.


The question I posed was not whether or not the 9mm had the power to bring down a < 150lb deer. But as to what the best bullet design to attempt to do so.

Its like your mother always said, if you dont have anything nice to say please dont say anything at all.

I didnt start this thread to pick a fight, I knew the flaming would come, but I thought someone might actually give me answer to the question I asked.
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Old March 11, 2009, 09:39 PM   #12
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147 gr ranger sxt will go all the way through and break a rib as it goes. there have been many a deer die dead in their tracks with a 22 cal round to the head. it's not my first choice of a deer round but it will kill a deer.
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Old March 11, 2009, 09:53 PM   #13
Ricky
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9mm deer round

I can see you using the 9mm for a coup D' gras shot. I don't really see the point in even considering it for a primary weapon under any circumstances. Your rifle is a far superior tool for the job, even at 15 feet (not very likely)
For a while I carried a sidearm, then I came to the conclusion that it's just unneeded weight.
That being said, if you insist on trying to use 9mm on a deer, use the heaviest bullet in a soft point, not hollow point so you get good penetration.

Just my humble opinion,

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Old March 11, 2009, 10:18 PM   #14
AZAK
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Quote:
all Im asking if I did completely go off my rocker and decide to shoot at a deer what would be a good round to send down the barrel?
Emphasis by AZAK

If that were to happen, I doubt that I would want to be out in the field near you hunting.

I will begin with the answer to your question, a bullet that provides deep penetration, and I would be looking at +p or +p+ ammo; if this were my intention, although not sure if your firearm is rated for +p or +p+. I have some old Corbon +p sitting on my ammo shelf that moves along at 1350fps. I no longer own any 9mm handguns, that might give you a clue as to what I think about 9mm abilities. I personally prefer 10mm.

Now, that being said, I would only hunt deer with a 9mm handgun in a survival situation if that was all that I had to do the job. Polar bears have been killed with a .22lr, etc...

I am a huge supporter of matching gun/cartridge to game. When I have hunted whitetail deer in the past, none up here just there bigger cousins moose, I used a 300 H&H mag. By the way, never lost a deer or had to track one either when using this rifle and have shot a fair number over the years. If my shot placement was off a touch, I would lose some meat but not the animal. If I was not confident that I could hit what I wanted to hit, I did not take the shot.
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Old March 11, 2009, 10:38 PM   #15
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OK, here's the only 9mm round I recommend for deer:

http://www.huntnetwork.net/modules/w...rspectives.pdf
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Old March 11, 2009, 10:54 PM   #16
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I have shot about 20 whitetail deer with a .280 Remington, which is a 30/06 necked down to .284 inches. 90% heart shots, the others brain shots because they were real near.

Of the heart shots about half ran 100 yards before dropping. Their hearts were destroyed their lungs severely damages and bullet holes on both sides of the body; some had broken legs and still went 100yards. The .280 churns out about 2,700 ft lbs of muzzle energy and with solid heart shots still fails to anchor whitetail deer half the time.

I think you should reconsider hunting with a 9mm which churns out about 500 ft lbs in a +P loading. You can hunt the deer. You can shoot the deer. You can kill the deer. But will you ever find it?
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Old March 11, 2009, 11:16 PM   #17
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Double Tap Ammo 147gr. FMJ-FP would probably due it at close range but I wouldn't attempt it.
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Old March 11, 2009, 11:28 PM   #18
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Not everything that is ill-advised is ridiculous. The 9mm has taken deer. If you make a perfect shot with the very fastest loads in 124gr. and up, you can kill a deer. There's just a lot less room for error. Everything has to be right, and it's going to be a lot harder to put the perfect shot together with a pistol. It's a tantalizing challenge, but the high likelihood of failure makes it a potentially cruel one to undertake.
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Old March 11, 2009, 11:31 PM   #19
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I'm not a deer hunter, but I did find an article while browsing over at Stephen A. Camp's HiPowersAndHandguns.Com.

Field Report: Browning Mk III w/Winchester 127-gr. +P+ Whitetail Deer.

Apparently he's taken a couple Texas white-tails with the 9mm.
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Old March 11, 2009, 11:39 PM   #20
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WOW Ive got to admit that i will hold back on this one, Ill just simply say that the use of a 9mm pistol should never even be legal for deer hunting. And i really dont care that a 22 has killed many, I just say its not enough gun for the average hunter, no way.......

Now as to the remark of you wondering about people having faith in the 9mm for personal protection, your qote below............

It just doesnt make sense to me that people trust the 9mm to bring down a full-sized man, which weigh as much as a very large whitetail or sometimes considerably more. But they turn up their noses at the thought of shooting a deer with it.


You show me a 150 lb man who has just been shot at 20 feet, who will run though a 300 yard long corn feild in about 5 seconds........ Im thinking you cant..... Ill tell ya their are verry few men who are as tough as a whitetail deer.... And pry more often then not, in a situation with a human, the odds of a good 2nd shot is well above a 2nd shot on a WT deer.

if you know much about deer, you will know they are tough as they come as far as pain slowing them down. Their will to live and escape danger is extreamly high, and their athletic ability is way beyond any human i know.....
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Old March 11, 2009, 11:46 PM   #21
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Hey the guys saying a .243 isn't enough for a deer don't know what they are talking about.
You can kill one with a nine but you are very likely to wound it and never find it. But you asked for the "best round". I agree with the other guy a 147 grain Double Tap.

In my opinion most deer rifles are way overpowered and most pistols are way underpowed. You owe it to the animal, borrow you daddy's .357. Or if you must use a semi-auto pistol buy a 10mm it is barely enough.
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Old March 11, 2009, 11:53 PM   #22
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.22 Mags are the jacker's tool of choice and they have taken many deer but, that doesn't make them appropriate or humane.

Where do you find 9mm x 19 loaded to 500 ft. lbs.?

Here are some popular, premium 124 gr. JHP +P loads:

Gold Dot: 410 ft. lbs.
Buffalo Bore: 461 ft. lbs.
Black Hills: 430 ft. lbs.
CorBon: 434 ft. lbs.

Ok, I found 1 after submitting the post: Double Tap 115 gr. JHP claims 511 ft. lbs. from a G17.

In my opinion, if your handgun isn't good enough for a trophy buck, then it isn't good enough for the meat pole either.

Last edited by Jekyll; March 12, 2009 at 12:06 AM. Reason: data update
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Old March 12, 2009, 12:26 AM   #23
Littlehoov
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Quote:
147 gr ranger sxt will go all the way through and break a rib as it goes. there have been many a deer die dead in their tracks with a 22 cal round to the head. it's not my first choice of a deer round but it will kill a deer.
Isnt that only available to law enforcement? Or did I miss something. A google for that ammo takes me to a site I can purchase it (currently backordered) but its also a LEO oriented site.


Quote:
Here are some popular, premium 124 gr. JHP +P loads:

Gold Dot: 410 ft. lbs.
Buffalo Bore: 461 ft. lbs.
Black Hills: 430 ft. lbs.
CorBon: 434 ft. lbs.
Ok, most of the .357 loads only generate a couple hundred pounds more
energy than that. For example, Im almost positive daddy shoots a 158 gr JHP bullet out of a Ruger Blackhawk. So that would put it in the high 500s probably as far as energy goes. Which Is it really that big of a difference? Or is it just the bullet designs on the 9mm? Educate me.


I saw that article as well. But unfortunately my Hi-Point is not rated for +P+ ammo, and I wouldnt attempt too shoot it personally.


Youre right though, I would have to be very accurate, I would be leary of hitting any bone whatsoever. Despite my comments above I know a deer's shoulder is pretty thick, but so is a humans, so I wouldnt shoot a person through the shoulder from the side in attempt to kill them.

Thanks for the recommendations so far. You made a good point Ricky, it would be extra weight to carry, and sometimes I end up packing a lot of stuff as it is. Another 3 pounds that I quite likely wouldnt use would be unnecessary.

What if I had posed the question about the .45 ACP? I was going to get one of those in a Hi-Point, until I saw how huge the gun was, and that it did not fit me well at all.
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Old March 12, 2009, 12:44 AM   #24
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Look into Buffalo Bore, Corbon, Winchester Ranger jacketed hollow points. They're all high power stuff.

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Old March 12, 2009, 01:01 AM   #25
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I've taken deer with my 6" barreled.357, but even then it's with very hot loaded 180 grain hardcast solids and at bowhunting range. There's nothing out there from a major ammo manufacturer in 9mm that would come even close.

Hunters in my area would take a dim view of anyone shooting at deer with their 9mm HiPoint.
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