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Old March 7, 2009, 03:20 PM   #1
Cousin Pat
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Licensed -- and unlicensed -- carry

An earlier post drawn from a book by Chris Bird gave information from 2007that there were 3.4m persons with licenses to carry in the 38 states with "right-to-carry" laws. This is about 2% of the population of these states (197 million, about 2/3d of total US population of 303 million).

If we assume 1% (1.1 million -- it is probably less) have been given discretionary licenses in the 11 states without right to carry, there are a total of 4.5 million Americans with legal licenses to carry.

These people are straight shooters in at least in one way: In a study of data for 1996-2000 Bill Sturdevant found that the general population of Texas was five times more likely to be arrested for violent crime that license holders and 13 times more likely to be arrested for non-violent crimes than license holders.

But licensed carry is only about a quarter of the whole: Surveys in 1993 done by a Florida professor (Gary Kleck) estimated that there are 17m people, about 9%, of the US population (in 1993) that carry guns for protection on their person or vehicle.

Therefore, there must be about 12 million UNLICENSED people in the United States who carry outside the home on their persons or in their vehicles. These people must be --

1. The bad guys

2. People avoiding the cost or hassle of registration

3. People who believe that the Constitution's statement that "the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" means exactly that, that registration does infringe and may lead to confiscation (as in Britain).

These last two groups must be trading off risks, that of fines/jail for illegal possession vs. that of losing their lives in a violent confrontation before help arrives. Another author (Andy Stanford) states that even an untrained assailant can fire up to four rounds in a second and, knife or club in hand, can cover 7 yards in 2 seconds. This recalls the familiar lament: "...when seconds count and the police are minutes away..."

Obviously each person has to make their own decision about carry and licensing -- just make sure you don't give up even a fraction of a second thinking about it during the action confrontation.

Or maybe you just following the kind of policy they might come up with in San Francisco: "Citizens who are killed by a criminal must immediately notify the police."
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Old March 7, 2009, 03:24 PM   #2
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Old March 7, 2009, 03:42 PM   #3
Ricky
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I live in Kalifornia

It is nearly impossible to get a CC permit here. I know very few people who admit to having a handgun in their car or on their person but there are several people that I know who I suspect do.
I used to manage a business in a large city here, more than once I saw things that convinced me that having a weapon at hand might one day save my life. I'm not saying that I carry, I'm just saying it might be best to be prepared for the worst.
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Old March 7, 2009, 03:43 PM   #4
pax
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Moved to a more appropriate venue, the Law & Civil Rights forum. Doesn't belong in Tactics & Training.

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Old March 7, 2009, 05:20 PM   #5
alloy
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Quote:
Therefore, there must be about 12 million UNLICENSED people in the United States who carry outside the home on their persons or in their vehicles. These people must be --

1. The bad guys

2. People avoiding the cost or hassle of registration

3. People who believe that the Constitution's statement that "the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" means exactly that, that registration does infringe and may lead to confiscation (as in Britain).
Or they live in states like Virginia where unpermitted open carry is AOK or a state like Vermont where no permit is required to conceal?
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Old March 7, 2009, 05:40 PM   #6
bob.a
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Or they live in states like Maryland where only lawyers, the wealthy and politically-connected are worthy of self-protection.

I understand there's a bill in committee to remove the clause requiring demonstration of need from the state law, which would make us pretty close to shall-issue. I'm hoping, but not holding my breath.
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Old March 7, 2009, 05:42 PM   #7
KC9LDB
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Sometimes here in Illinois, all im going to say is sometimes.
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Old March 7, 2009, 07:33 PM   #8
IZinterrogator
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You forgot all of the people carrying legally in their vehicles in Texas under the "traveling" laws.
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Old March 7, 2009, 09:42 PM   #9
A/C Guy
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Or maybe.....

Quote:
Therefore, there must be about 12 million UNLICENSED people in the United States who carry outside the home on their persons or in their vehicles. These people must be --
Residents in Az, Alaska, Vermont, and several other states don't need a license to open carry.
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Old March 8, 2009, 12:18 AM   #10
Ben Towe
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Kentucky, Virginia, Vermont, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, South Dakota, and Alaska are all Unlicensed Open Carry states.
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Old March 8, 2009, 12:21 AM   #11
chemgirlie
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WI is supposedly unlicensed open carry too, although recent events here have been making that statement iffy.
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Old March 8, 2009, 12:18 PM   #12
doh_312
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CO is open carry. But that doesn't mean I dont get all kinds of attention when I do open carry. Not just from citizens, cops as well. Seems a large population of this state has the mindset of gun+badge=good guy. Gun-badge=bad guy
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Old March 8, 2009, 12:46 PM   #13
Wildalaska
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So whats the point here? Estimate + estimate= maybe?

Quote:
Obviously each person has to make their own decision about carry and licensing
yep every person has the choice as to whether to become an armed criminal or not

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Old March 8, 2009, 11:15 PM   #14
NavyLT
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Washington State too. I carried, legally, before I received my CPL. I still open carry, it's just now I can conceal if I want to and I don't have to unload the gun when getting in the vehicle. When traveling, I also open carry in states that it is legal to do so (Wyoming for instance) that do not recognize my Washington CPL, so, in those states, I would be carrying without a license.

I am appalled, quite frankly, that your #1 assumption was 1. The bad guys.
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