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Old March 6, 2009, 07:23 PM   #1
Firepower!
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Training double tap

How do you all train to shoot double tap in center mass for multiple targets?

How many of you train for double tap and head shot?
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Old March 6, 2009, 08:27 PM   #2
Japle
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Quote:
How many of you train for double tap and head shot?
Only for the IDPA qualifier.

I train (and a lot of the training is mental, not range time) to shoot as long as I have a target.

You know you don't have a target when you lose sight of your attacker and find him on the ground, not moving.
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Old March 6, 2009, 08:43 PM   #3
MrNiceGuy
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two to the chest and one to the head sounds very nifty... and it's a good goal...
but in real world situations, it's just not realistic or practical
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Old March 6, 2009, 08:45 PM   #4
oldkim
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training...

The best way to train is to practice. Get actual trigger time practicing doing double taps to center mass and head shots.

Granted you either have to be someplace that will allow you to shoot fast and close. Some ranges will restrict how fast and how close you can have targets. So, you'll have to work around where you live and the limitations of the ranges you use.

So, for IDPA it's best to shoot IDPA targets. I am also shooting steel plates to get faster acquisition of sights to target.
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Old March 6, 2009, 10:03 PM   #5
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I practice two to the COM, then pause. More if the threat isn't negated. I also practice 3-4 COM for a "more sure" takedown/stop. Head shots are too "iffy" in real life to fool with.
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Old March 6, 2009, 10:47 PM   #6
SigfanTN
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I mostly just shoot at one target (because that's range rules), but I do practice double tap COM.

I mostly do it to keep up my accuracy and increase my speed. Still have a lot of room to improve them both.
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Old March 6, 2009, 10:51 PM   #7
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i put up a 4" steel plate on a pole, i found that after 3-5 hits it falls over. this works good for that.
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Old March 7, 2009, 12:46 AM   #8
fastforty
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Learning to take "double taps" starts with two aimed, controlled shots ("controlled pairs"), usually about 2 seconds apart. After the first shot, wait until the sights level out and the center of the target is once again where it should be, then carefully press the trigger for the second shot. I know, it sounds like you're not practicing what you want to do (your goal is two *fast* shots to COM, right?). But you *are* practicing what *needs* to happen- sight alignment, sight picture and trigger control (along with recoil management). You will find that it doesn't take too many repetitions before the sights start coming back to alignment and the second shot can be pressed off in about 1/2 of the time. Work at that speed for a few repetitions, then try to push yourself a little faster. When your 2 shot groups start opening up to 8-10", start over from the beginning ("controlled pairs"). You are now working on the balance between speed & accuracy (and gaining a lot of skill as you do). Recoil management and flinching are the major obstacles when it comes to putting two fast shots inside of an area that is acceptable for defensive situations. With a little practice, the second shot can be .10 to .15 seconds after the first shot.

Head shots require the shooter to slow down just a tad, due to the smaller area that the shot must hit. Hard focus on the front sight will get the bullet to hit the target where you want it to. We illustrate this point by having students shoot a 6" grey steel plate from 30 feet distance (it's *easy*). Then we put them on an 8" plate that is painted safety orange at 25 feet. Most students miss that big orange plate, sometimes repeatedly & to great frustration because it draws their focus away from the front sight to the target.
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Old March 7, 2009, 07:42 AM   #9
Brit
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Multiple targets? Always double taps, or whatever you want to call them.

Reason, two shots are way more accurate on more than one target, than one single shot and move on.
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Old March 7, 2009, 06:27 PM   #10
Shadi Khalil
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I dont do multiple targets, but I do practice the double tap. It's my favorite part of range time. Well that and when my girlfriend out shoots me
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Old March 7, 2009, 08:17 PM   #11
tbtrout
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A double tap failure to stop drill was our standard drill and required for qualification.
Your second shot is not 1 to 2 seconds after, it is immediately after the first. Your first shot is aimed at center mass and the second one is as quickly as you can squeeze the trigger. It should end up 2 - 3 inches higher than your first shot. Then there is a 2 second evaluation with the head shot after.

It is important to remember the doubletap is not a precision take out the X shot. It is a rapid succession of two shots at center mass, with the purpose of stopping an attacker. The failure to stop shot is an aimed shot at the center of the head, more than likely within 10 feet if ithas to be used.

It is very easy to do and will become second nature after you practice for a while.
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Old March 7, 2009, 11:04 PM   #12
Mello2u
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The theory goes that if you have multiple targets, say three; you shoot the first two once each, the third one twice, then assess the situation. This assumes that each target is of about equal threat. You shoot each one as quickly as possible to try to incapacitate them as quickly as possible. Taking time to shoot twice on each target gives the third target too much time to nail you.

If you practice controlled pair/double taps, try it with a shot timer. You really do not know how fast you can go until you practice with a timer and print on paper to see that you balance speed with accuracy.

It is not unusual for shooters to consistently get their controlled pairs (time between 1st and 2nd shot) down to .33 seconds or less at 3 to 5 yards with the shots going into the center of mass. 90% of the shooters in the 250 course I observed at Gunsite were doing it by the third day.

The Mozambique Drill: two the center of mass without effect, assess, then a shot to the head; is the result of real world experience. Therefore it is practical. The time necessary to do a Mozambique at 5 yards can be in the two second range. To some extent this time frame is unrealistic because when you shoot someone and they don't go down, you may take a second to realize that fact. Then overcome your surprise and get back in action.

If you've ever watch people shoot steel plates, you can get an idea of how someone's expectations of a nice smooth run can go wrong; a miss can throw off the timing and swing to result in a very slow run with several misses.
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Old March 9, 2009, 10:55 AM   #13
Bartholomew Roberts
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Rather than train for "double-taps" or "Mozambique", etc., I prefer to set up falling steel plates (usually poppers) so that they are particularly stiff and then just shoot them until they fall down.

This tends to be helpful as far as training your reaction to be "I shoot until target goes away." It also is helpful in that hits higher on the popper tend to have better leverage and are more likely to make it fall (much like a center mass/head hit is likely to be more effective than a shot to the leg). Finally you get to learn to do target assessment even while you are shooting.

The results of this kind of practice can be pretty entertaining. I've personally shot a popper set for rifle calibers about 20yds away and knocked it down with a single round of 9mm. I've also had the other extreme where I dumped an entire 17 round magazine into a popper from 5yds and it just stood there staring blankly back at me and still standing as I changed mags.

Practice wise, I like it because once you can execute the basics of weapon manipulation safely, what you really need to be able to do is be able to think on your feet while executing the weapon manipulations on "automatic." Poppers are good for this because they add a certain element of uncertainty to training.

Personally, I think once you get past basic, safe, weapons manipulation, better reactive targets are much more useful to training than 100 more rounds of ammo at a paper target.
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Old March 9, 2009, 12:18 PM   #14
alberich
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I'm not very comfortable with the doubletap concept, I just train to shoot as fast as I can while still hitting alpha zone. I watch my frontsight all the time and I shoot only if it's correctly put on the target. Can do some 2 shots per second this way.
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Old March 13, 2009, 04:51 PM   #15
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i read somewhere to just start firing as you raise your gun aiming from the crotch up through COM - you are bound to hit them somewhere
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Old March 15, 2009, 08:34 AM   #16
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When doing controlled pairs I usually start off at about 5-10 ft. I do a controlled pair to the chest, pause, break my tunnel vision, acess and then one to the head. I drill that about 5 times and then I increase the distance once I feel comfortable at my current distance. Once I get out to about 50 ft I will start walking forward doing controlled pairs until I close the gap to about 5 ft.
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Old March 15, 2009, 09:19 AM   #17
cz223
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I have been practicing

double-tapping a lot lately. The range I belong to allows me to use as many targets as I want depending on how many other people are there. I generally put up two, but will sometimes use three. I usually start off just drawing from concealement, double-tap one target, reholster weapon and repeat. I also throw in the occasional head shot. I then move on to double-tapping two targets reholstering, then repeat. I throw in a partially loaded magazine every once in a while to simulate a stoppage that makes me change mags. I also have started to practice shooting while moving and shoot move shoot scenarios. I usually shoot 200-300 rounds per session. I have also recently realized that simply shooting your backup gun is no good unless you include it in your practice routine, so that is what I have started doing. Apparently, I am getting pretty good at it. The other day while practicing, with others present, I fired 3 from from my main gun, simulating a jam with a partially loaded mag. I quickly reholstered with my right hand while simultaneously jamming my left hand into my left pocket. Coming out with the LCP I fired all 7 rounds with my left hand, hitting COM every time. The people watching were surprised as well as impressed.
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Old March 20, 2009, 05:33 AM   #18
alberich
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Look at the video here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wbg2s...eature=related
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Old March 31, 2009, 06:59 PM   #19
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I'm not sure that training to double tap every threat is realistic. Sometimes I shoot multiple shots at one target other times I practice getting one solid hit on each of several targets as quickly as possible. I do agree that if a single threat hasn't been neutralized with two shots it may be time for a new plan. For someone charging you with a knife or club a shot to the pelvis gives a high probabilty of taking the attcker off their feet and stopping the attack. It's a bigger target than the head too. For multiple attacker situations one solid hit to each and then going back to shoot anyone that is still a threat may work better? Even that assumes that they are all an equal threat which may not be the case, greater threats may in fact need to be prioritized and dealt with first. I read once of a police officer facing 3 men in a shootout who killed the first two with a double tap each and was in turn killed by the third. My point I guess is that there is probably no "one size fits all" solution to solving real world tactical problems.
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Old April 4, 2009, 08:33 PM   #20
.351winchester
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Quote:
i read somewhere to just start firing as you raise your gun aiming from the crotch up through COM - you are bound to hit them somewhere
I've read that is the proper technique (or at least one that is used) for machine pistols and micro subguns with excessive cyclic rates and no mechanical selector for burst fire. Aim on their right hip and by the time you get your finger off the trigger the target is zippered diagonally, probably a few over the left shoulder too. Can't remember where I read that, Leroy Thompson on the G18 or unstocked Stechkin maybe.
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Old April 4, 2009, 09:29 PM   #21
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Clint Smith doesn't teach double-taps. He wrote in the Dec. 2008 Guns Magazine Article: Ranging Shots “Choose: Simple And try to separate the wheat from the chaff.” by Clint Smith) that his advice to his students is to "shoot ‘em one round at a time until they solve the problem."
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