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Old March 6, 2009, 01:38 PM   #1
jg0001
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Having someone ELSE buy you ammo (Pennsylvania)

If I had a relative in Pennsylvania buy ammo at Walmart, assuming that person has no guns of their own, no licenses either, is that an issue? I know in NJ it's harder now for a non-FPID holder to buy ammo, but I think it's still okay in PA, no? [I'd go to PA to get it from them, I would not have them enter the People's Republic of NJ to deliver it for fear of them skirting the new NJ ammo laws.]

Is there an age limit in PA on buying ammo? If my 18 yo cousin tried to pick up 1000rds of 9mm (Handgun) ammo for me at his Walmart, is he going to be carted off in cuffs?

Just askin'. As I expand my search for ammo to include the non-gunnies in the family, I don't want to get anyone in trouble. Again, I'm not talking about a box here or there... I'm talking about having them take every box off the shelves they can find. It's going to raise eyebrows, I just don't want to raise alarms.
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Old March 6, 2009, 02:09 PM   #2
NavyLT
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Well... IANAL. But here is what I see in New Jersey law...

I don't see anything in New Jersy law requiring a FPID to possess ammunition. Only to purchase it, in New Jersey. Handgun ammunition purchase, delievery, gifting, and/or transferring in New Jersey requires the permit. That law does not apply to you if you go to PA to obtain the ammuntion. Just like a California resident can buy hi cap magazines all they want to in Arizona, they just can't bring them back to California because their POSSESSION of the magazines is illegal in California. I see no laws against the POSSESSION of the ammunition in New Jersey, so buying in PA and bringing back to New Jersey should be just fine.

Quote:
2C:58-3.3. "Handgun ammunition" defined;
sale, purchase, etc., regulated; violation,
fourth degree crime [Effective April 1, 2008]
a. As used in this act, "handgun ammunition"
means ammunition specifically designed to be
used only in a handgun. "Handgun ammunition"
shall not include blank ammunition, air gun
pellets, flare gun ammunition, nail gun
ammunition, paint ball ammunition, or any nonfixed
ammunition.
b. No person shall sell, give, transfer, assign
or otherwise dispose of, or receive, purchase, or
otherwise acquire handgun ammunition unless
the purchaser, assignee, donee, receiver or
holder is licensed as a manufacturer,
wholesaler, or dealer under this chapter or is the
holder of and possesses a valid firearms
purchaser identification card, a valid copy of a
permit to purchase a handgun, or a valid permit
to carry a handgun and first exhibits such card
or permit to the seller, donor, transferor or
assignor.
c. No person shall sell, give, transfer, assign
or otherwise dispose of handgun ammunition to
a person who is under 21 years of age.
Technically, by the letter of the above law, I doubt that there is any actual handgun ammunition made, because I don't know, off the top of my head, any caliber of ammuntion that there is not a rifle made for. So 9mm would not be handgun ammuntion, by the above definition, because it is not specifically designed to be used only in a handgun.

Last edited by NavyLT; March 6, 2009 at 02:20 PM.
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Old March 6, 2009, 02:15 PM   #3
NavyLT
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In regards to your 18 year old cousin buying ammunition from a dealer (Wal Mart) in PA. It is against Federal law for an 18 year old to buy ammunition for use in a handgun from a dealer. It is also against Federal law for a person to make a false oral or written statement to a dealer in regards to the purchase of firearms or ammunition. So, let your conscience be your guide on that one. It would be perfectly legal for an 18 year old to buy 9mm ammo from a dealer for use in a rifle of such caliber.

18 USC 922:
Quote:
(a) It shall be unlawful—
(6) for any person in connection with the acquisition or attempted acquisition of any firearm or ammunition from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, knowingly to make any false or fictitious oral or written statement or to furnish or exhibit any false, fictitious, or misrepresented identification, intended or likely to deceive such importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector with respect to any fact material to the lawfulness of the sale or other disposition of such firearm or ammunition under the provisions of this chapter;

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
(1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;
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Old March 6, 2009, 02:26 PM   #4
jg0001
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To be clear, I have a NJ FPID and can purchase/possess/etc ammo so I'm not worried about me bringing it back to NJ (and I would be going straight to my house). My only concern is not getting the person picking up the ammo for me in trouble. Again, this is likely going to be a non-gunny person who just so happens to be in a Walmart doing other stuff and checking the ammo aisle for me as a favor.

So then, is it correct to say that in PA, there is no law nor pre-requisite (as in NJ) on someone over 21, who has no felony or other convictions that matter, from buying ammo?
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Old March 6, 2009, 02:31 PM   #5
NavyLT
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Quote:
So then, is it correct to say that in PA, there is no law nor pre-requisite (as in NJ) on someone over 21, who has no felony or other convictions that matter, from buying ammo?
That would be correct, except the age limit is 21 or over for ammunition for use in a handgun, not over 21. In free states outside of New Jersey, a person walks into a Wal Mart, picks up the ammo, the cashier scans it at the register, the register asks the cashier to verify age, the purchaser shows an ID to verify age, cash is collected and the person leaves with their ammo. No questions asked other than age.

You, as a New Jersey resident, could do the exact same thing at a Wal Mart in PA.
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Old March 6, 2009, 03:01 PM   #6
jg0001
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Thanks.
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Old March 6, 2009, 03:23 PM   #7
Corvettekid
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Good luck trying to find any ammo in a WalMart in PA. The shelves have been getting empty for quite a while. I was just in a Dicks and they had 9mm, .40, and .44 mag. You might want to check out some gun shows in PA.
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Old March 6, 2009, 03:47 PM   #8
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WOW. Glad I live in Florida.
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Old March 6, 2009, 04:29 PM   #9
Tom2
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It would be freaky for me to live somewhere that just buying ammo was, like, some sort of government monitored transaction. Be careful, don't want to be accused of a Crime Against the State. You might have to be re educated and learn to believe the stuff they tell you. I am sure you are much safer for it, though.
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Old March 6, 2009, 05:09 PM   #10
chris in va
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Quote:
No questions asked other than age
Actually, I've been asked many times if the ammo will be used for rifles or handguns.
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Old March 6, 2009, 05:10 PM   #11
protectedbyglock
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Your best bet would be to just drive into PA, buy your ammo, and leave.
In PA, like others have said, you just have to be 18yrs old with a gov id (drivers license, photo id, etc.) However, if you are buying a handgun specific caliber, you have to be 21yrs old.
There are no special licenses.
I like it when you're buying .22LR and the cashier at wally world asks "is this for a handgun?".
It's pretty freakin' stupid of you ask me. I like making stuff up to say back like "Well, I'm buying it for a rifle, but what if I don't shoot it all before I decide to buy a pistol, and then I load some in the pistol? Will I be under arrest?". My other favorite is just simply answering "Neither".
I'm well over the age limit, but it's fun regardless.

Not everywhere in PA is out of ammo, btw. However, since you're from jersey....I take that back. No ammo here....stay in jersey.
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Old March 6, 2009, 05:19 PM   #12
Cerick
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I moved back to NJ recently from FL and dont have my FID Card yet so I have to go to PA to buy ammo. Its complete crap.
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Old March 6, 2009, 06:09 PM   #13
orionengnr
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Quote:
I doubt that there is any actual handgun ammunition made, because I don't know, off the top of my head, any caliber of ammuntion that there is not a rifle made for.
.25acp? .32acp?

Quote:
Actually, I've been asked many times if the ammo will be used for rifles or handguns.
Only once, and it was a Wal-Mart, BTW
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Old March 6, 2009, 06:21 PM   #14
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Sportsmans guide sells conversion kits so you can shoot 32acp in rifles; small, about the size of the original rifle round...
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Old March 7, 2009, 11:13 PM   #15
B.N.Real
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Wherever you live,THAT'S the law you need to follow.

Going elsewhere to buy anything prohibited and bringing it back to where you live is an invitation to a jail sentence.

If the gun laws stink where you live you either have to-

1. play by their rules(laws)

2.lobby in the state and local government to get those laws changed or

3.move to a state with gun laws more in line with the Constitution.

Don't ask anyone to get you anything,guns,ammo or other that you cannot get yourself where you live.

And don't accept someone getting that stuff for you unless it goes through whatever legal channels it need to so you can definitely state that as far as you know,you followed all the rules where you live and here are the photocopies to prove it.

One thing I have definitely learned on this forum is that every state and local government in the union interpetes gun ownership and possesion differently.

It's a royal pain but you have to do the right thing.

Especially if you might find yourself in a sitation where you might use a gun to defend yourself.

It would stink to act in responsible self defense and go to jail because the handgun or ammo you used was illegal for you to have in your possession at the time.
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Old March 8, 2009, 02:25 PM   #16
dajowi
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There was only one time at a WalMart, (where I frequently purchase handgun ammo) that I was asked "are you going to use this in a handgun?" I said "no, a machinegun." The counter person didn't bat an eye
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Old March 8, 2009, 04:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Only once, and it was a Wal-Mart, BTW
Me too buying .22 ammo at Wal-Mart. Sure as heck suprised me. That has never occurred to me before. Must be a new Wal-mart policy of some sort . Weird. I handload everything else.
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Old March 8, 2009, 10:53 PM   #18
NavyLT
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Quote:
Actually, I've been asked many times if the ammo will be used for rifles or handguns.
Yes. That is because your answer magically changes the age limit for purchase from 18 to 21.
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Old March 8, 2009, 11:40 PM   #19
sandbag
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I live

in RI and can't buy ammo in Massachusetts(unless I'm on a range that sells ammo and use it all there)which is insane.
In RI you don't need ID to buy ammo unless you look underage.Not a problem for me.
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Old March 9, 2009, 07:53 AM   #20
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jg001, have you ever bought over the counter at Ammoman near Cherry Hill, N.J. Their prices are probably better than Walmart, and I'm sure their selection would be better.

I've often thought of making a day trip there to buy ammo, but hate the thought of having to exist under N.J.'s laws for even the hour it would take to buy and then return back to where the Constitution rules.
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Old March 9, 2009, 08:02 AM   #21
Tamara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rclark
Must be a new Wal-mart policy of some sort
Actually, the Gun Control Act of 1968 was not a Wal-Mart policy.


Here's a good one: It is legal for an 18-year-old to purchase ammunition for the Sten gun that his grandpa left him, but not for the Luger that came with it.
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Old March 9, 2009, 07:30 PM   #22
jg0001
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Quote:
jg001, have you ever bought over the counter at Ammoman near Cherry Hill, N.J. Their prices are probably better than Walmart, and I'm sure their selection would be better.

I've often thought of making a day trip there to buy ammo, but hate the thought of having to exist under N.J.'s laws for even the hour it would take to buy and then return back to where the Constitution rules
I think it may be ammoman that is online doing online stuff now... I forget. Cherry Hill is much closer to Philly than New York, so it's not exactly around the corner for me.

I ordered enough online in bulk that I'm fine now. I made my own WalMart trip (PA) when I was there this weekend just to see some empty shelves for myself. They had a nice batch of Federal Champ 22LR bricks, a few hundy of 40 S&W, and little else other than some rifle ammo.
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