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Old March 4, 2009, 02:13 PM   #1
brucea4
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Fastest shooting pistol??????

Hey gang,

What do you think would be the absolute fasting shooting pistol design out there in 9mm? Reason I'm asking is because of the times we live in I am feeling the need for more than a 5 shot revolver or a 7 shot small 9mm before a reload.
I'm not a Glock fan but I think this might be the fastest design out there in 9mm with a 15 plus capacity that you can blast several rounds out under control without a reload and flee. Naturally afterwards I'll return when the reinforcements arrive .
With the proliferations of heavily armed gangs in certain parts of Tucson & Phoenix and in our southern desert I don't feel comfortable with a low capacity handgun. They are great for concealibility but not capacity. Carrying a heavy bulky pistol is enough of a pain without carrying extra mags also.
Not trying to start a 100 post thread but I think the Glock with it's short trigger pull allows faster shooting.........
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Old March 4, 2009, 02:18 PM   #2
Brian Pfleuger
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A typical semi auto handguns takes roughly .05-.07 seconds to cycle.... the gun is waiting for you. The question is "How accurate can you be?" You can't miss fast enough to win a gun fight.
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Old March 4, 2009, 02:25 PM   #3
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Glock 17 wouldn't be a bad idea, then... or the G19 if you want a slightly shorter grip for greater concealability. 17 rounds in the G17, 15 in the G19, and either can use the extended G18 30+rd magazines if you can use a handgun that has a 2 foot long magazine... I don't like the feel personally, though.

Springfield's new XDm 9mm I think holds 20 rounds. Also supposedly has an improved trigger reset distance enabling faster shots.

I was shooting my XD9 with a friend who has a G19. We both remarked that the G19's trigger was inferior to that of the XD (both are stock) in regards to weight, and that the Glock had a very strong trigger return spring in comparison. Difference between Glock's "Safe Action" and the XD's single action trigger.

CZ-SP01 is another good option. Available in metal or polymer frames, it carries 20 rounds but gives you the CZ/BHP feel instead of the polystriker feel.

Fastest burst of covering fire for egress from nastiness with no fears of running dry?

I would personally go with a CZ-SP01, but I'm not much a fan of striker pistols at all anymore. But then again, I doubt I'd use covering fire. Even from Mexican narco-ninjas in Phoenix.
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Old March 4, 2009, 02:36 PM   #4
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I can't recall cyclic rate ever being an issue with semi autos before. I believe there was a History Channel episode where Jerry Miculek got one of his sponsor's 1911s to 650 rpm - even better than his legendary 625.

The op gets my nomination for most original question on an intertubz gun board this week. Right when you think everything's repititous, along comes urban cyclic.

I don't have a reasonable suggestion but now I'm wondering if Dillon could modify an M134D to 9mm? The mechanism doesn't rely on recoil or gas for operation. Also, there were a pantload built between 1963 and 1986 so one would suppose a fair number would remain transferable?
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Old March 4, 2009, 02:43 PM   #5
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I would have to say the fastest shooting pistol I know of is the glock 18 which is select fire. Other than that, it can only be as fast as your finger. One pistol isn't going to be faster than the other because it is your finger that makes it fast. The trigger pull weight can make you shoot faster. But two pistols with different trigger pulls wouldn't be a good comparison of which is faster. A good comparison would be bump firing or something of the sort and see which one gets empty faster. But you will never be able to pull the trigger that fast so it doesn't matter which one would win that test. Just pick one you like.
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Old March 4, 2009, 02:45 PM   #6
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I saw that episode with Jerry M. Absolute-freakin'-amazing! Sounded like an Uzi or somesuch. Yeah, the gun will be waiting on YOU to twitch your trigger finger again.
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Old March 4, 2009, 02:46 PM   #7
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The noted "fastest cycling semi-auto pistol" is the P7 by HK.
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Old March 4, 2009, 02:53 PM   #8
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I will check this " P7 " out.

Lets not get off subject please. Not interested in a machinepistol! Although I prefer a double action semi auto for safety reasons they are slow to get off the 1st shot. I want a consistent trigger pull every shot and the trigger on my Glock 23 is pretty short. So I figured in 9mm it is the same.
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Old March 4, 2009, 02:57 PM   #9
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You would be hard pressed to tell the difference between ANY semi-autos. YOU are, by a WIDE, WIDE margin, the slowest part of the equation. I agree that the trigger should feel the same for every shot but the difference in speed is irrelevant.
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Old March 4, 2009, 02:59 PM   #10
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The top shooters in the world have splits in the .10-.15 second range, when shooting at and hitting targets within ten yards, which, as noted, is twice the cyclic rate of the gun, so no gun is going to slow you down.
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Old March 4, 2009, 02:59 PM   #11
partemisio
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Quote:
Not interested in a machinepistol!
Well you did ask what the fastest shooting pistol is.
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Old March 4, 2009, 03:00 PM   #12
brucea4
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Just checked the P7 out. Not a fan of the squeeze cocker design. When I joined the PD the NJSP adopted that pistol and had many troopers shoot themselves with them. After the initial accidents since they were carrying a revolver at the time they adjusted their training and now that pistol is their carry weapon without incident.
However, for me, those shooting accidents have stuck with me and I would not consider the P7. Yes they were the finger on the trigger accidents but still I find it a hairy design.
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Old March 4, 2009, 03:25 PM   #13
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LMAO... then they were half-retarded. The P7 squeeze cocking mechanism has been heralded as one of the safest ever devised.

You have to squeeze with 12lbs of pressure to cock the weapon, and then also pull the trigger.

It's fine to not "like" the mechanism... many do not. But to call it unsafe is a judgment made of ignorance.
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Old March 4, 2009, 03:34 PM   #14
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Here, educate yourself on it instead of relying on false stories fed to you by others.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=HK+P7+series
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Old March 4, 2009, 03:36 PM   #15
brucea4
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The NJSP is one of the finest law enforcement organizations in this country. To call them retarded is offensive.
I wrote " I think " the design is hairy. JMO. I know it's a fine weapon, just not for me. If you have nothing constructive to say, go away!
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Old March 4, 2009, 03:40 PM   #16
BanditSRT8
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Sorry, if you shoot yourself with a P7 then you must be an utter genius.

What was I thinking.
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Old March 4, 2009, 03:40 PM   #17
brucea4
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Hey Bandit bigmouth....I was in the academy when they were testing for their new sidearm. Think before you write insults....
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Old March 4, 2009, 03:41 PM   #18
Jart
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Quote:
You have to squeeze with 12lbs of pressure to cock the weapon, and then also pull the trigger.
The manual with mine (in German - PSP) notes that it works just as well reversing the sequence - pull trigger, then squeeze grip = bang.

Not unsafe per se but I can picture someone being, shall we say, "surprised".
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Old March 4, 2009, 03:45 PM   #19
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It was a training issue...

NJSP and the police in the German state of Saxony both dropped the P7 due to ND's by officers who were covering suspects with their booger hook on the bang switch because their P7 was "safe" since it wasn't cocked. Except when they got startled or tense, they clenched their fists, and then the department is paying a fat settlement to the family of the deceased driver. New Jersey went to the SW99 and I think Saxony went to the HK P8 or the Glock 17, but I could be mistaken.

I'd be interested in seeing data comparing the P7/PSP's cyclic rate compared to, say, contemporary challengers from the German police pistol trials of the '70s...
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Old March 4, 2009, 03:57 PM   #20
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The cyclic rate of the pistol is not the issue. Length of trigger pull and how light and smooth the trigger pull are bigger factors.

The trigger pull on my Glock 17 is sloppy and long. That's because it's a striker gun, i.e. when you pull the trigger you are actually partially pulling the striker back. There's not much you can do about that on the Glock - lighter striker springs might help lightening the trigger, but also leads to more missfires.

Personally, I think the shortest trigger pulls are found on higher end 1911's with competition triggers. A good 1911 in 9mm would probably be a very quick gun.

FWIW, I've seen a video of a guy who can fire a revolver and makes it sound like a machinegun. So, yes, the rate of fire depends mostly on the human factor.
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Old March 4, 2009, 04:29 PM   #21
BanditSRT8
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Quote:
I wrote " I think " the design is hairy
No you didn't. You wrote this:

Quote:
Yes they were the finger on the trigger accidents but still I find it a hairy design.
I only find it amusing that you "find it a hairy design" when just a few minutes ago you didn't even know what a P7 was.

Quote:
I will check this " P7 " out.
So now you are an authority on them. Maybe your analytical skills would be better tested actually analyzing the actual gun, instead of Googling it and looking at a picture. Handle one, shoot one... then base your theory on that.


Please provide some article or proof of your claim that officers were shooting themselves with their P7. I believe Tamara is more on-point with her post. While I still find it laughable that someone trained with any weapon could ND a P7, I understand that most police are not gun-people at all. Many only touch their gun for qualification, and back it goes in the holster until next time.


Quote:
Hey Bandit bigmouth....I was in the academy when they were testing for their new sidearm. Think before you write insults....
I see that you're a bit touchy when presented with facts. I'm not the bigmouth, I offered an answer to your initial query, then when you posted erroneous information and thoughtless speculation I simply tried to help you learn the truth so you don't go on thinking the wrong thing, and possibly making an ass out of yourself repeating it in the company of others more knowledgeable on the subject. You're welcome.
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Old March 4, 2009, 04:39 PM   #22
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Whatever is in the hands of Jerry Miculek
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Old March 4, 2009, 05:17 PM   #23
brucea4
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Read post # 17 again Bandit bigmouth! I was there! I'm asking for opinions on the fastest semi pistol action. Your opinion is the P7. That pistol is not to my liking but thanks for the opinion. Now make like the wind & BLOW!
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Old March 4, 2009, 05:20 PM   #24
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I`m with Peetza on this one. My fingers never been faster than any well running semi-auto. That said, I was shooting the XD 9 azred spoke of and as stock triggers goes it was impressive.
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Old March 4, 2009, 05:21 PM   #25
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That'll be quite enough name-calling for one thread.
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