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Old March 5, 2009, 09:56 AM   #26
partemisio
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Forgive me for not knowing this, but wouldn't an armed robber walking through a door and firing a shot into the ceiling constitute the possibility of you life or someone else's life being in danger?
Yes. Anytime a gun is brought into a situation, it is a matter of life or death.
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Old March 5, 2009, 10:13 AM   #27
azredhawk44
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You had:

1. A mousegun,
2. Unchambered,
3. 2 extra mags???,
4. On your ankle?

I don't think I'd be in that situation...

I certainly wouldn't expect that particular arrangement to do me any good in a true life/death emergency where a gun would legitimately be useful.

I carry a commander 1911, XD9 or SP101 most days, round in the chamber, on my strongside hip.

Bankrobber comes in and puts a round in the ceiling?

That's bad for anybody left in the bank.

1. The panic alarm has certainly been tripped by someone.
2. Police are on their way, but the bad guy is not gone.
3. Bad guy still needs to collect his money.
4. This could become a hostage situation (it actually already has).

I'm counting seconds until his attention is somewhere other than me, then pulling and putting him down.
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Old March 5, 2009, 10:40 AM   #28
David Armstrong
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Sigh. Lay down, let the BG get his money, give info to the police, then complete the business you had at the bank and go on about your day. No need to start a gunfight when not necessary. If the BG wanted to shoot somebody he would have done that instead of shooting the ceiling. There is a very good reason every safety, security, and LE organization I'm aware of recommends not fighting back as long as the robbery is simply a robbery.
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Old March 5, 2009, 11:02 AM   #29
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Sigh. Lay down, let the BG get his money, give info to the police, then complete the business you had at the bank and go on about your day. No need to start a gunfight when not necessary. If the BG wanted to shoot somebody he would have done that instead of shooting the ceiling. There is a very good reason every safety, security, and LE organization I'm aware of recommends not fighting back as long as the robbery is simply a robbery.
I'm confused. Is the "sigh" part just you being condescending, or is it part of your recommended actions? Is the guy supposed to sigh and then lay down?
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Old March 5, 2009, 11:13 AM   #30
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After thinking about it a little, it seems to me an armed robber in a bank lobby is a very different animal than a mugger in a parking lot. The odds of someone robbing a bank without any help seems slim. It is not the typical crime of a desperate drug addict.

Drug-related crime is an increasingly prevalent and bothersome problem but there are some mitigating factors that work in our favor. For one thing the desperate addict is not functioning at 100%. For another he typically is short-term goal oriented, i.e. he is looking for enough cash for his next fix and generally doesn't plan ahead. And because of his habit, he usually doesn't have valuable possessions like guns and body armor and doesn't spend money on practice ammo or range time. These are generalizations, of course, and there are also negative factors which may make him more likely to kill or possibly less likely to respond to logic or pain than a rational thinking thug. But overall I'd rather be in the position of defending myself against a lone addict than a team of bank robbers. Tossing $50 to the mugger would very likely be my first move in the parking lot, followed by drawing my weapon if that didn't satisfy him. In the bank I would definitely try to keep a low profile with the goal of having the robbers leave without bloodshed. My luck had already failed me when I found myself in the bank at that particular time.
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Old March 5, 2009, 11:23 AM   #31
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If i felt 100% confident that i could get off a clear headshot i would take it. He has fired a round in the air meaning that he isnt afraid of shooting. This tells me Im already in a life or death situation. Other than that i would just play along and only get involved if he actually shot a person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo11
I'm confused. Is the "sigh" part just you being condescending, or is it part of your recommended actions? Is the guy supposed to sigh and then lay down?
I dont understand that either. Sighing mite draw his attention or make him angry. I would advise against this.
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Old March 5, 2009, 11:23 AM   #32
David Armstrong
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I'm confused. Is the "sigh" part just you being condescending, or is it part of your recommended actions?
I'm confused. Is your question a condescending attempt to start an argument or are you seriously attempting to get information?
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Old March 5, 2009, 11:32 AM   #33
Glenn E. Meyer
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Stay with the issue - a moderator's Sigh!

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Old March 5, 2009, 11:43 AM   #34
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Instead of sighing, you could say out loud... "Geez, I gotta kill another bank robber" as you lay down...
LOL at glenn's reply though!
Brent
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Old March 5, 2009, 11:45 AM   #35
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After thinking about it a little, it seems to me an armed robber in a bank lobby is a very different animal than a mugger in a parking lot. The odds of someone robbing a bank without any help seems slim. It is not the typical crime of a desperate drug addict.
Not sure of current statistics, but when I worked in banking after college, the stats said that most bank robbers were solo actors. Very few coordinated big heists like in the movies.

But most don't walk in and shoot the ceiling to get attention. They walk up to a teller and show a note/gun.
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Old March 5, 2009, 12:31 PM   #36
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They walk up to a teller and show a note/gun.
+1. They want to control the information flow and give as little notice as possible to everyone else. Most will just quietly get a bag of money from 1 particular teller and leave, trying to look like a regular bank patron to most in the lobby.

A bank robber that shoots the ceiling when he walks in is unbalanced, IMO. He's out for control, he's looking to dominate the situation via force rather than discretely getting 1 teller to give him a sackful of money.

That type of bank robber is the type that ends up in a hostage situation, and is more likely to shoot someone as he loses control of the situation. Better to shoot him before he get a grasp on the situation, IMO.
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Old March 5, 2009, 12:37 PM   #37
Brian Pfleuger
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Forgive me for not knowing this, but wouldn't an armed robber walking through a door and firing a shot into the ceiling constitute the possibility of your life or someone else's life being in danger?
So far as I know all, or virtually all, states should technically consider it a "good" shoot if you so decided to take this guy out.

One problem you'd have in many states is that it would be illegal for YOU to be in a bank with your CCW. So, you might be charged for that even if the shoot was legal.

The real question is not "legal" vs "not legal" but "What is the wise choice?" In hind sight it is obvious that doing nothing was the right thing since no one got hurt. However, in the heat of the moment you'd have to be analyzing the situation second by second and decide how to react.
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Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; March 5, 2009 at 12:55 PM.
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Old March 5, 2009, 12:57 PM   #38
Careby
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One possible scenario might be:

Bank robber fires a shot into the ceiling,
Teller presses alarm button,
You draw and shoot robber in the head,
Robber falls dead,
You sweep the room looking for accomplices,
Police show up,
You're the only guy standing in the bank, with gun drawn,
(you get the picture)
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Old March 5, 2009, 01:01 PM   #39
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
You draw and shoot robber in the head,
Robber falls dead,
You sweep the room looking for accomplices,
Police show up,
You're the only guy standing in the bank, with gun drawn,
(you get the picture)
That would be:

1) Very slow of you
2) Very fast of the police
3) Very dumb of you to be "looking for accomplices" and not see (and hear!) the police coming and put your gun away
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Old March 5, 2009, 01:16 PM   #40
eviilboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peetzakilla
So far as I know all, or virtually all, states should technically consider it a "good" shoot if you so decided to take this guy out.

One problem you'd have in many states is that it would be illegal for YOU to be in a bank with your CCW. So, you might be charged for that even if the shoot was legal.

The real question is not "legal" vs "not legal" but "What is the wise choice?" In hind sight it is obvious that doing nothing was the right thing since no one got hurt. However, in the heat of the moment you'd have to be analyzing the situation second by second and decide how to react.

How do you figure it's illegal to carry in a bank?

And there is the ever changing scale of crime... which one outweighs the other.

Personally, I wouldn't get involved unless people were getting hurt... be a good witness is what my ccw instructor taught us.. in situations where you don't know everything that's going on.
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Last edited by eviilboy; March 5, 2009 at 01:25 PM.
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Old March 5, 2009, 01:18 PM   #41
hogdogs
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OOPS can't spread bad info... possibly legal in Fla according to....
http://floridaconcealedcarry.com/For...?t=1094&page=3
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Old March 5, 2009, 01:27 PM   #42
partemisio
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In NC it is illegal to conceal into a bank. You can open carry in one though.
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Old March 5, 2009, 01:27 PM   #43
eviilboy
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hogdogs, I had this conversation before.

Banks are still private institutions... therefore private property.

If there is a no guns sign up.. then.. well obviously you can't carry in there...

but.. afaik, there is no such thing as a government bank... tbh.
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Old March 5, 2009, 01:42 PM   #44
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e-boy, churchs ain't gubmint run but in the L&CR section there is a thread about arkansas LAW being challenged as it was/is against the law to have guns in a church...
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Old March 5, 2009, 02:13 PM   #45
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
How do you figure it's illegal to carry in a bank?
Some states it is, some states it ain't.


Quote:
Banks are still private institutions... therefore private property.

If there is a no guns sign up.. then.. well obviously you can't carry in there...

but.. afaik, there is no such thing as a government bank...
Do you know what they call someone who challenges a law they believe to be unconstitutional?

The Test Case.

If you're not willing to BE the test case then it doesn't much matter how you feel about the law. There are PLENTY of "private" places that the government says you cannot carry.

Bars, churches and banks are often among them.
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Old March 5, 2009, 02:13 PM   #46
eviilboy
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hotdogs,

Ah, good point.. I guess it would have to do more with locality.

peetzakilla,
Maybe in the draconian state you live in.... I've carried openly into my bank quite a few times.... concealed many more.
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Old March 5, 2009, 02:20 PM   #47
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Back to the topic.

Beaware, and be armed. Last night I went to the bank with a bunch of cash to cover my rent check. It's about 6 PM, and, the bank is closing. Family walks in, two little kids, oriental lady, and a huge black guy. Keep in mind that the only people that have ever mugged me, or tried, have been very large. This guy was dressed in sweats, and, looked very gang banging type. The irony was I had two guns locked in a brief case in the car, and, forgot the mace at home. I'd just been to the gunshop to try and trade some stuff, no joy.
ALWAYS HAVE A GUN...

Don't think anything happened, other then an incredibly beautiful red head running into the bank at 6PM, who made most Playboy bunnies look like boys...

The combination got way too many hormones going, so I drove home...
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Old March 5, 2009, 02:30 PM   #48
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I would draw if I was certain I wouldn't be seen doing so...and would only shoot if I was certain of a clean shot that did not endanger any bystanders.

Quote:
I ankle carry and am a little slow getting to my weapon. I also don't carry one in the chamber for safety reasons.
BTW...carrying a LCP with an empty chamber...in an ankle holster?? Isnt that a slightly risky carry method for the LCP? I certainly hope your free hand isn't occupied with fending off an attacker...or rendered useless by injury or otherwise immobilized. Just curious: what will you use to rack the slide back...your teeth? I think would be almost impossible chamber a round without using with your free hand being that the LCP has nonexistent sights or other protuberances to employ using the "snag-technique" to rack the slide.
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Old March 5, 2009, 02:42 PM   #49
guntotin_fool
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One get a real defensive use caliber handgun.

Two. Get a proper holster.

Three. Get enough training and practice to be both competent and confident enough that if this scenario actually did happen you would hpave no qualms about stopping this threat in its tracks.

My one fear in a case like that would be an accomplice arriving late or already inside as an overwatch.
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Old March 5, 2009, 02:51 PM   #50
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"but.. afaik, there is no such thing as a government bank... tbh."

YET ........
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