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Old February 25, 2009, 05:34 PM   #1
johninminnesota
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Minnesota HF 953 (from Citizens who love Criminals in Minnesota)

Attention Minnesota Gun Owners:
This organization (Citizens for a Safer Minnesota) cough, cough, sent out this email. I urge each of you to talk to your legislator to insure we at least have a voice in response to these whackos.

Maybe if the worthless piece of scum who shot someone with an AK had been KEPT IN PRISON... he wouldn't have killed anyone! I guess the fact that he was a criminal was lost on these idiots.

We better get busy or we're gonna lose our rights. Faster than Oblahma is spending our money.

John

-------------- ------------ --------------
Dear Notsobright,

I know of three Minnesotans killed with AK-47s, just in the last year or so. One was the mother of a toddler, killed by a man just out of prison.





Though the source of that assault weapon in unknown, under current law, gun shows and internet sites allow disqualified people to buy pistols and assault weapons with no background check from any unlicensed seller.


It is time to close that loophole.



ACT NOW - Click below to urge your legislator to support HF 953!


http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o...aign_KEY=26738



This year there is a real chance for change, with your help. Rep. Michael Paymar, with support from House Speaker Margaret Anderson Kelliher, has introduced a bill requiring a background check before the purchase of a pistol or assault weapon anywhere in the state, and any gun at a gun show.

ACT NOW - Click below to urge your legislator to support HF 953!



http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o...aign_KEY=26738



Thank you for all you do,

Heather Martens

Executive Director

Citizens for a Safer Minnesota/Protect Minnesota




More about the bill:

What does HF 953 do?




1) Keeps current law in place. The same requirements that buyers follow now when they buy a firearm at a dealer, like Gander Mountain, would be applied when they buy a pistol or assault weapon from an unlicensed seller, or any gun at a gun show.


2) Closes off a legal avenue for criminals to get firearms. The ATF reported in 2000 that gun shows are a major trafficking channel, with an average of 130 guns trafficked per investigation and over 25,000 firearms trafficked in total over one 17-month period alone. (U.S. Dept. of Treasury, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms: Following the Gun: Enforcing Federal Laws Against Gun Traffickers, June 2000, p. 13.) If HF 953 were adopted, web sites that facilitate in-state gun trafficking, under the guise of legal private sales, could be stopped from doing so.


3) Improves the chances that a crime gun trace will lead law enforcement to the offender. By requiring the same Federal background check on used pistols or assault weapons that are required mainly for new firearms, it would now be more possible to trace a crime gun -- usually a pistol -- to its most recent owner. In the United States, nearly 40 percent of murders are unsolved, and one obstacle for investigators is that secondary gun sales are completely undocumented.

4) Establishes a middle ground on the treatment of guns. The bill takes neither a gun-rights nor a non-gun-rights position. The middle ground is rights with responsibilities. Minnesotans, including gun owners, overwhelmingly support background checks before the purchase of any firearm -- a 2006 University of Minnesota survey found that 82 percent of Minnesotans support having the same background check requirements for private sales that are currently required only for Federally licensed dealers.

5) Brings in revenue for law enforcement. Law enforcement currently charges for the background checks they conduct as part of the permit to carry a pistol application. But they are not allowed to charge for the same type of service when they process ordinary permit-to-purchase background checks -- something they do thousands of times per year. The bill would make the background check charge uniform.

Here is what the bill does NOT do:


1) It does not establish gun registration. After conducting an instant background check on a gun buyer, the FBI is required by law to destroy its record within 24 hours. Only the licensed dealer maintains the record of the sale.

2) It does not affect hunters. Genuinely private sales of long guns, like kitchen-table trades, would not be affected. Sales at gun shows would be treated the same way as sales by gun dealers like Gander Mountain, as they should be.

3) It does not affect transfers among family members.

4) It does not change eligibility to buy firearms. Only people who are already disqualified from buying firearms would be prevented from making a purchase.

Protect Minnesota has worked hard to find the common ground on the treatment of guns, and rights-with-responsibilities is that common ground. The PROTECT Minnesota campaign is a collaboration of hunters and non-gun owners, and is endorsed by the American Hunters and Shooters Association. For more information, visit www.endgunviolence.com.



There are a few who oppose background checks before the purchase of pistols and assault weapons, but they are not the majority, even among gun owners.


Further information:


In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reported that it is possible to close down certain gun trafficking channels through regulation. In 2008, a Mayors Against Illegal Guns study of 2007 crime gun trace data found a strong correlation between loose gun regulation and number of crime guns exported to other states.


"Weak gun laws also put a state's own citizens at risk. There were nearly 60 percent more gun murders in the 10 states where exports were highest than in the states with low export rates -- and nearly three times as many fatal shootings of law enforcement officers." (New York Times, Dec. 23, 2008)


National Public Radio reports (Feb. 19, 2009) that Mexican gangs are arming themselves with firearms they buy on the loosely regulated U.S. gun market. Increasingly in Mexican cities, police are under seige by well-armed gangs who have assassinated police officials.


Minnesota also has gangs that can easily get guns and are threatening communities. If the illegal flow of guns to dangerous people is to be stopped, we must stop the legal flow.

* * *

Canada, with strong gun laws, is a hunting country that experiences little gun death. In 2004, the U.S. had 11,344 gun homicides. Canada had 184.
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Old March 3, 2009, 07:05 PM   #2
johninminnesota
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NRA notice - HF 953

Minnesota Gun Registration Scheme to be Heard Friday!
Please Contact the Members of the House Crime Victims/Criminal Records Division!
On Friday, March 6, House File 953, introduced by State Representative Michael Paymar (DFL-64B), will be voted on by the House Crime Victims/Criminal Records Division Committee.

This bill was designed to not only regulate the sale of firearms at gun shows, but to regulate the sale of firearms between law-abiding persons, all across Minnesota. As a whole, HF 953 will only affect law-abiding gun owners, and in no way keeps guns out of the hands of criminals.

A particularly troublesome provision in HF 953 creates a de facto registration system by requiring records of all transfers to be maintained by the state. These records would be made available to all authorities, including for use in “civil” cases, which are often brought by anti-gun government officials and are designed to damage or interfere with lawful commerce in firearms.

HF 953 is a direct attack on Minnesota’s gun rights. It also removes the carry permit holders’ exemption from the purchase permit requirement for all handgun or semi-automatic rifle purchases, not just those completed at gun shows, and increases the waiting period from five to seven days.

Please contact the members of the Crime Victims/Criminal Records Division Committee TODAY and respectfully urge them to protect our Second Amendment rights and oppose this bill. Contact information can be found below.

State Representative John Lesch (DFL) Chairman
Phone: 651-296-4224
Email: rep.john.lesch@house.mn

State Representative Ron Shimanski (R) Vice Chair
Phone: 651-296-1534
Email: rep.ron.shimanski@house.mn

State Representative Debra Hilstrom (DFL)
Phone: 651-296-3709
Email: rep.debra.hilstrom@house.mn

State Representative Kory Kath (DFL)
Phone: 651-296-5368
Email: rep.kory.kath@house.mn

State Representative Paul Kohls (R)
Phone: 651-296-4282
Email: rep.paul.kohls@house.mn

State Representative Jenifer Loon (R)
Phone: 651-296-7449
Email: rep.jenifer.loon@house.mn

State Representative Dave Olin (DFL)
Phone: 651-296-9635
Email: rep.dave.olin@house.mn

State Representative Michael Paymar (DFL)
Phone: 651-296-4199
Email: rep.michael.paymar@house.mn


------------ ---------------- ---------------------
And my email to the author:

Dear Representative Paymar,

I want you to know I oppose HF 953. Law abiding citizens don't need further regulation. Gun sales at gun shows are closely monitored already, and sellers already capture purchaser information with the threat of breaking or being liable under existing laws. Sellers at gun shows are law abiding citizens who have the right to be there selling guns. They are fully aware of the consequences of selling a gun to a criminal. There is no evidence this legislation will do one thing to prevent criminals from obtaining guns. Criminals steal guns.

Criminals are by defnition those who don't abide by laws. To end gun violence, end violent criminal's careers - early. Maybe on their second felony, as opposed to giving them light sentences and letting them keep repeating.

As a gun owner, I already know that selling a gun to someone who doesn't have a valid permit to purchase a handgun or a valid permit to carry a handgun leaves me exposed to being held liable for providing a felon with a gun. Further restricting me, taxing me, making me pay more transfer fees, and restricting my 2nd ammendment rights is just going to penalize me - a law abiding citizen, taxpayer... voter.

Thank you for your time.
--

Thanks!
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Old March 3, 2009, 09:52 PM   #3
chibiker
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Quote:
Minnesota also has gangs that can easily get guns and are threatening communities. If the illegal flow of guns to dangerous people is to be stopped, we must stop the legal flow.
Uh, I specifically put this statement in quotes because I wanted to say something about it.... I can't though, I think I have the equivalent of shell shock right now. Let me get back to this later.
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Old March 4, 2009, 01:05 AM   #4
burdock41
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Thanks!

Thanks John for the post, I got am e-mail from the NRA today on this very subject. I have some real issues with this bill and the plain stupid remarks the anti-gunners put out. I own an AK-47 semi auto version…I’m surprised that they did not say ‘machine gun” LOL. I have used mine for closer range deer hunting before and it is one of the best firearms out there.

What was this guy doing getting out of our lax prisons in MN? They are o wrong with their stats on gun crimes and they get away with it.

Many years ago when MN was talking about an “assault weapon” ban a number of gun owners went down to the capital…including me. They brought in a number of semi autos for whatever reason and laid them down on the table in front of us, and the barrels of the guns were pointed at us…talking about gun safety! A friend of mine got up just before I did and asked if they could point the guns some where else, because we don’t know if those guns are loaded…what do us gun owners learn through out our lives…safety! Now these were cops and out “leaders that did this” I really think that they did not even know what we were talking about, did any of the antis stand up and say anything? NO

After that I really got to understand that the anti gun people only care about getting rid of guns and do not care about the criminals
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Old March 4, 2009, 02:26 AM   #5
burdock41
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Another thought

The quote that has been mentioned, “Minnesota also has gangs that can easily get guns and are threatening communities. If the illegal flow of guns to dangerous people is to be stopped, we must stop the legal flow”… I find this to be their true intentions

Then they use that “fake” progun organization to make it sound like gun owners belong to it. I can’t be sure of this, but I thought I read somewhere that George Soros funds that group?
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Old March 4, 2009, 08:29 AM   #6
johninminnesota
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Fear.

Thanks burdock41.

The problem with Anti-Gun folks is fear. It is the same issue that people are confronted with when they consider crime and criminals, and they simply lump guns and criminals into one heap.

When a non-violent person thinks about some virile young man beating an old lady to death by slitting her throat, stabbing her in the neck (with a large butcher knife) and finally stomping on her head several times, it makes them "shut down". And, why wouldn't it? It is brutal, ugly and we've shunned these kinds of animals from society for just that reason. People don't want to think about the ugly side of humanity. They just want it to go away. Here's the problem, even having it "go away", say for repeat felons, is "inhumane". Humanity... we treat our dogs and cats more "humanely" than we do our own... but I digress.

What we need is exactly the kind of people like you burdock41. People who understand the issues, are willing to be involved, and are capable of expounding on the issues with reason, logic, and compassion. Guns don't kill people. Banning guns WILL NOT reduce crime. Why aren't they suggesting a ban on alcohol? Why not ban knives and large sticks? Hell, ban all weapons of opportunity, including a criminals hands... oops - that would be inhumane. BAN CRIMINALS! There we go.

Stay involved. Write to your legislators and senators and congress people. As Oblahma suggests... "get in their face".

John
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Old March 4, 2009, 11:07 PM   #7
burdock41
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I will never figure out them?

Thanks John, I read the bill you mentioned n your original post late last night. Comparing what the woman said from the anti gun organization and the bill…she sure knows how to lie!

I made a copy of the info and brought it up to my fav gun store and they could not believe it…they made copies and were giving them out to their customers

I wonder about the excuses they are thinking in England. They pretty much have banned most guns and now violent crime is raising faster then the USA. Organized crime has moved in and is supplying crooks with all the guns. They even have small manufacturing of firearms set up
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Old March 5, 2009, 12:34 AM   #8
Skunk Pilot
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I was about to post this if I didn't find it already _ Thanks

I got an email from GOCRA today. MN's Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance.

Some of the points in there are:

HF953 Creates a central state run registration system recording all firearm transfers for use in any civil or criminal investigations.

HF953 terminates any and all private sales of firearms. All transfers must be run through a FFL dealer. Dealer transfer fees will add anywhere from $20 to $100 to the cost of firearms ownership. Residence of cities such as Minneapolis and St. Paul will have to travel out of the city to make any transfers.

HF953 allows police chiefs and county sheriffs to charge whatever they can justify plus $5 for a MN firearms transfer permit. In Minneapolis and St Paul this may well be in the hundreds of dollars depending on the level of investigation. This change is nothing less than a poll tax to exercise your constitutional right to keep and bear arms. This continues the redundant background check that every purchaser of a firearm must go through at the federal level – for free!

HF953 makes you a criminal if you loan any firearm (even for hunting) to someone for more than 24 hours. Both you and the person you loan the firearm to become criminals. The state run gun registry will be used to check whether you are illegally in possession of that gun - you wil be arrested and the person loaning you the gun will be arrested.

HF953 requires permit to carry holders to go through another background check when purchasing a firearm. Even though permit to carry holders go through a background check every year to maintain their permit to carry.

6.25 (6) a loan between persons lawfully engaged in hunting or target shooting if the loan is intended for a period of no more than 12 hours;
------
Can't loan a hunting rifle for more than 12 Hours !!!!! ***.

A couple even worse things were stricken, but it could always be put back in. I don't know how this works, if this page always gets updated or if they change the name if it gets past commitee but here it is.

https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/...l&session=ls86

All it does is make it harder for law abiding citizens to do things. Man these people are morons. This is going to make many law abiding people into criminals without even knowing it.
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Old March 5, 2009, 10:40 PM   #9
johninminnesota
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Good work - Let's keep an eye on Paymar

Hearing Postponed Indefinitely for Minnesota Gun Registration Bill
Due to Overwhelming Member Opposition, Committee Pulls HF 953 from Calendar.
Late last night, House File 953, introduced by State Representative Michael Paymar (DFL-64B), was removed from the schedule of the House Crime Victims/Criminal Records Division Committee. Though the bill will not be heard on Friday, it is not dead, as another committee could bring it up in the future.

This bill was designed to not only regulate the sale of firearms at gun shows, but to regulate the sale of firearms between law-abiding persons, all across Minnesota. As a whole, HF 953 will only affect law-abiding gun owners, and in no way keeps guns out of the hands of criminals.

A particularly troublesome provision in HF 953 creates a de facto registration system by requiring records of all transfers to be maintained by the state. These records would be made available to all authorities, including for use in “civil” cases, which are often brought by anti-gun government officials and are designed to damage or interfere with lawful commerce in firearms.

HF 953 is a direct attack on Minnesota’s gun rights. It also removes the carry permit holders’ exemption from the purchase permit requirement for all handgun or semi-automatic rifle purchases, not just those completed at gun shows, and increases the waiting period from five to seven days.

Thank you to all of those who contacted the members of the House Crime Victims/Criminal Records Committee and urged them to oppose HF 953. Until the bill is officially dead, please continue to check your email and www.nraila.org for future updates.
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Old March 6, 2009, 02:16 PM   #10
burdock41
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Yes!

Thanks John for the post, I did hear about this on another site…I’m glad so many people stood up against it!!!!!!!!!!!!

I still cannot believe the lies that the woman from our local anti-group told…you posted it earlier
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Old March 9, 2009, 02:27 AM   #11
jbrown
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face it guys,this state is a liberal as they come.time to move.
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Old March 10, 2009, 07:50 AM   #12
johninminnesota
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Yes, there are a bunch of loons in Minnesota... pun intended. I can't believe Al Franken will be our next senator. :barf:

We were very fortunate to have a few dedicated folks here get some excellent common sense gun laws passed. They worked hard to get it done so that we who are not criminals have an opportunity to get a permit to carry - open or concealed.

It is going to take some effort to keep the loons from eroding our rights. They are going to start chipping away at everything surrounding guns so they can to try to keep from being afraid. Because they are ignorant about criminals - you know, the ones who don't follow all those laws...

If you are reading this, please help keep people informed about the laws affecting lawful gun owners, including those that seemingly have nothing to do with guns - like giving criminals more rights. If the loons were serious about solving the problem, they would work harder to eliminate criminals! Not guns.

John
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