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Old April 21, 2006, 08:46 AM   #1
plom
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Colt 1860 vs remington 1858

what do you guys prefer and why? thanks for the infos!
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Old April 21, 2006, 03:07 PM   #2
Brent Vinson
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Remmie vs. Colt

Greetings,

I have a Pietta version of both the 1858 Remington and the 1860 Colt so I can give you some of my percieved pluses and minuses of each...

First my take on the Remmie...

It's more like a "modern" design with it's solid frame and grip assembly all in one piece. The cylinder is larger and probably stronger. Cylinders are super easy to change. The"drop-in" conversion cylinders are really fast to change with a little practice. Grip panels are more standard and interchangeable without fitting and sanding. Standard sights are usually high enough so if the gun shoots low a little bit off the front sight will put you right onto point of aim. Remmies are easy to cap and tend to be pretty reliable. They seldom "eat" caps and jam-up. The skinny hammer nose and narrow slot helps prevent this.

The downside of the Remmie is cleaning and ergonomics. The grip is too close to the baskside of the trigger guard. Uberti versions are really bad in this respect. Hammer effort is high and the trigger, while nice and wide, feels too short. The whole revolver exudes a sort of Victorian "clunkyness"; charming but sort of awkward. They are harder to clean and less tolerant of powder fouling.

Colts are beautiful. They point very naturally and the large "Army" size grip feels perfect in my hand. It is easy to cock the hammer but the trigger is really skinny and strangely offset in the triggerguard. Colts don't have a unitized frame. They are made up of a bunch of screwed together hand fitted parts. No two are exactly alike so grips have to be custom fitted to each gun. The arbor wedge holds the whole gun together. The upside to this is they are really easy to clean the powder fouling out of. You can pull the barrel and cylinder off of the frame/action and dump the cruddy bits into hot water/solvent/cleaner. Colts are really designed to cope with the filthy realities of black powder shooting. Their most aggravatiing aspect is the wide hammer slot and the frequency of cap jams. Cap fragments can fall right into the action and totally jam things up. I think 19th century caps were a lot thicker than the ones we shoot today. Some people are really put off by the barrel wedge issue. It has not been any problem with my Pietta. The arbor "bottoms-out" in the barrel recess so the wedge doesn't have to be adjusted to prevent binding. I just tap it in far enough to keep it from shaking loose. It's not really tricky at all. Colt front sight are always too short. Navy models are really bad in this respect. The 1860 Army has a brass blade instead of a little "acorn". I soldered a little piece of flattened brass channel stock onto mine to adjust the point of aim. Opening up the sight notch on the hammer nose also helps and can lower the impact point a little.

I guess in summary I'd have to say the great looks and superior handling qualities of the Colt just about makes up for it's shortcommings. The Colt will need more fiddling and finessing to get running smoothly. You have to try different brand caps etc. until you find what works.

The Remmies usually work fine right out of the box. I have to agree with the "experts" who recommend it over the Colt for a first time cap and ball shooter. It is a easier transition for a cartridge shooter to make.

Hope this helps your decision. Cap and ball revolvers are not too expensive so maybe you should do like I did and get one of each !

Cheers,

Brent
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Old April 21, 2006, 09:03 PM   #3
Dave Markowitz
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I've more experience with Colts (1851, 1860, & Second Model Dragoon) than Remingtons but based on my recent experience with a Euroarms 1858, I'm really liking the Remington.

I found that by lubricating the 1858's cylinder base pin well with Ballistol, I was able to keep the gun running without it gumming up too much. After two or three cylinders full, I pulled the base pin, wiped it off, and relubed. In 5 cylinders' worth of shooting I had not a single cap jam, something I can't say for any of the Colt repros I've shot.

The Remingtons are easier to field strip, IMO. Lower the loading lever, slide out the cylinder base pin, and take out the cylinder.

Remington sights beat Colt sights hands-down.
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Last edited by Dave Markowitz; April 22, 2006 at 07:20 PM.
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Old April 22, 2006, 04:29 PM   #4
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The 1858, I like the Looks, feel/balance, reliabiltiy, structure, i.e. sights and frame along with chamber capacity/ease of changing cylinders. Not that it's needed but nice to have a choice. It's low maintenance,most are good to go right outta the box. Accuracy has also been a plus for me. Would like to get a new Euroarms 1858 cause I like the dimensions and authenticity in size of the ASP I have. Closer chamber to barrel size also. I have always been a Pietta fan and always will be...I equally like the Uberti models. I have one of each and like um all, but I think the Uberti 1858 chambers take a .454" ball, Pietta take .452" same with ASP. I guess the only thing I can say I don't like is not having more of them.

The 1860, I can't explain it any better than this;
The Lines of the 1860 are perfect it's a piece of art. I looks great has excellant balance and pointablitiy. It just plain feels good in my hand and I have trouble putting it down when handling it. Some Colts need a little pampering probly the replicas more than the originals..but they all needed fine tuning and maintenance. When they get broke in and loosen up a little it's to be expected...and plenty of info and knowledgable people in here to help with questions. Like shims, wedges, chamber diameters, Bores, sights...the list goes on. I for one am pleased with my Pietta 1860 shoots great and very accurate because it's in proper working order/tuned and all the bugs worked out, this ones 10 years old and tight as a drum. Plus I can shoot...LoL!
Colts have more things that can loosen up on them like arbor lock pin, arbor to barrel assy. to wedge...but you gotta admit the are a thing of Beauty and ya gotta love um.

My favorite on Both Models would be:
1)Originals/2nd Gen.
2)ASP/Euroarms
3)Colt Signature
4)Pietta
5)Uberti
6)Armi San Marco

But all said, I'd take an 1858 Remmington if I had to choose one.
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Old April 22, 2006, 05:41 PM   #5
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thanks for the infos guys Actualy , I have a 1851 cal 36 from uberti and a Colt Dragoon 2nd generation from uberti too. the dragoon is just too heavy to bring with me in the woods as camp revolver and the 1851 cal 36 does not punch enough power as camp revolver...
it's really hard to decide this one The remie from euroarms might be the best option
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Old April 22, 2006, 07:19 PM   #6
Dave Markowitz
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Quote:
I have one of each and like um all, but I think the Uberti 1858 chambers take a .454" ball, Pietta take .452" same with ASP.
Smokin Gun,

If I remember correctly, Euroarms recommends .454 balls in their 1858s. However, since my other .44 cap and ball piece is a Ruger Old Army, I stock .457s. That's what I shot in the 1858 and they worked very well. No problem seating them and accuracy was good.

One thing that I thought was interesting with my Euroarms is that the chamber mouths came chamfered from the factory, something I haven't seen on any other cap and ball sixgun.
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Old April 23, 2006, 02:42 AM   #7
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Dave, .452(Lee .451 mold)is what my ASP likes, chambers measure .443, grooves about .450. New Euroarms may take the .454, I have pressed .457's in it with the wide chamfer hey went in ok. I have the 1858's from ASP an Old one chamfered alot(I like that), a Pietta which I would call slightly chamfered, and the Uberti which is chamfered about half that of my ASP(Euroarms). Euroarms/ASP would be my overall choice, but I do like um all best in their own way. The Pietta does have more room between the triggerguard and the grip than the Uberti but it doesn't bother me a bit...I like the dovetail sight and loading lever release of the Uberti...there's a chance of dimple in the barrel groove with the soldered in sight of Pietta's but that doesn't often happen(if that's a problem to you). ASP/Euroarms more authentic chamber to barrel closer tolerance. Pietta second and Uberti third. Size wise as far as I have found out the ASP/Euroarms closer to an original.
Maybe Mec can shine some lite on the size of an original in comparison.
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Old April 23, 2006, 02:57 AM   #8
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Plom, what model 2nd Generation Dragoon do you have? I have an R&D .45LC drop in conversion cylinder for sale $190 shipping included. Retangular slots like a 2nd or 3rd Uberti Dragoon. Works fine in my Colt Signature 3rd Model Dragoon. Let me know if interested.
http://i3.tinypic.com/w8rsxi.jpg
http://i3.tinypic.com/w8rt5y.jpg
http://i3.tinypic.com/w8rtcl.jpg
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Old April 23, 2006, 07:12 AM   #9
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Smokin gun, mine is a UBERTI, I dream about a convertion unit but it is very hard to import in europe :barf: this is why I pack a black powder revolver as camp revolver... plus I saw in Evan Marshal's book that a 44 loaded with 35 grs FFFg have a fuller index of 75% one shot stop...pretty good!
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Old April 23, 2006, 01:56 PM   #10
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That's a damn shame...the R&D .45LC on my Colt is alot a fun to shoot. Beleive it or not it creates a stout recoil. 255gr flat nosed soft lead, with 35gr of Goex FFFg Black Powder is quite impressive and very accurate.
Below 25 yard/meterpaces target...

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Old March 10, 2009, 03:18 PM   #11
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Remington!!!

Hey, guys! Sorry to interrupt this debate, but I've inherited my late father's Remington, and I'm seeking more information on it, because we've come up empty looking through everything in his house!
The ONLY markings on the entire gun are "E. Remington & Sons, Ilion, N.Y. USA" along the length of the top of the gun barrel, and on the left side of the barrel is "44"...that's it. Any other markings may have been scratched off, as there appear to be abrasion marks along the length of the left front side of the revolver also has a brown, woodgrain handgrip. My nextdoor neighbor, who is retired army, practically drooled when he saw the revolver and strongly urged me to get it appraised, but I don't know who to call in my area (near Louisville, Kentucky). I've already been to the Remington Society website, which wasn't very helpful, except for a picture of an old Remington Army and Navy Revolver, which looks almost exactly like Dad's.
Any suggestions and/or advice you guys can offer would be most appreciated, as I want to take the best care of this revolver as I can; it's the only inheritance I have from my late father's estate. Feel free to reach me at cherylgraham@hotmail.com if you want to see the three pictures I took this morning of Dad's revolver...THANKS, guys! Cheryl
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Old March 10, 2009, 04:01 PM   #12
sundance44s
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I like mine both ...the sexy looking Colts I fondle and play with ........the Manly looking Remingtons I shoot the snoot out of ....
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Old March 10, 2009, 04:32 PM   #13
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i clean my rem. 58 in a two gallon bucket with dish washer detergent and hot water, take the grips off and submerge,after a few minutes i rotate the cylinder briskly while under water then i take a brisole brush and push it down the barrel and into the cylinder turning it in each cylinder chamber. pull cylinder and wipe cylinder pin and rear of cylinder around the nipples. rinse well with hot water and put on stove burner at low heat,when dry spray with WD40, put grips back on and put away. it takes longer to tell than then to do. i do all but the drying on the stove in the garage ,so the smell is not in the kitchen. eastbank.
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Old March 10, 2009, 04:36 PM   #14
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Y'all do realize this thread is three years old.

Mommola, sounds like you've got an original.
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Old March 10, 2009, 05:05 PM   #15
sundance44s
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shhhhhhhh ! Hawg ...ain`t nothin more fun than stuirin the Colt vs Remington Pot .........
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Old March 10, 2009, 05:25 PM   #16
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Old March 10, 2009, 10:06 PM   #17
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I just can't help it, I love em all!!
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Old March 12, 2009, 12:35 AM   #18
tiberius10721
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i dont know enough to compare these two guns but i love my uberti remmy its the only bp gun i own so far.now i want more!
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Old March 12, 2009, 05:53 AM   #19
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"The proven best by government test..."


"...superior to any other pistol of the kind..."
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