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Old February 20, 2009, 11:01 PM   #1
doh_312
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Danger from Mexico

I've been hearing that Mexico is really becoming a rough place. Police are openly attacked many times with millitary grade weapons. RPG'sm, grendades, M60's. A big area of conflict is a boarder town in Mexico that feeds many illegal things, mostly drugs, up I25. I25 just happens to run right into my part of Colorado. Considering a worst case where some Mexican drug cartel guys get into my neck of the woods. I only carry a couple pistols, against a few guys with full autos and who knows what else, I feel superbly out-gunned. Of course I'll **** my pants and try to run away against those odds but if bullets are flying and running isn't an option I will fight like hell. I'm considering carrying my shoty in vehicle, and hoping it is accessible in a situation, and that I have enough amo. Using a shoty leads to more problems for me, because no doubt a fire fight will draw our fine boys in blue to the scene. Plenty of them, and they'll be armed and ready to shoot first so they go home to their families. (I subsribe the same mentality) So I'll need to contact 911 dispatch and alert the police that I'm a good guy. Which will be difficult trying to plink bad guys with a 12g at the same time. I see a tough situation here. If your response is that this situation will never happen, I'm paranoid, all I need is a wheel gun and no reloads, you needn't respond. So here's my question, what would you guys do to prepare for something like this? Or, for those of you who actually carry a reload or two, or a back up gun, would u feel comfy holding position with a pistol until the po-pos show?
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Old February 21, 2009, 12:11 AM   #2
dieselone
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Something like "the only use for a pistol is to fight your way to where your rifle is stashed".

A old Clint Eastwood western: "when a man with a pistol goes up against a man with a rifle, the rifle wins." Eastwood's character made some steel armor so he could take on a rifleman.
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Old February 21, 2009, 05:23 AM   #3
burnera
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You shouldn't have to worry about that situation for another five years.... probably.
If you really have to fight, a pistol will be worthless. Even with a rifle, being outnumbered like that, you should duck out and run.

If something like this ever happens that far into the states, either 1) the US declares war on mexico the next day or 2) you were involved in something shady.
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Old February 21, 2009, 06:22 AM   #4
THEZACHARIAS
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If they have automatic weapons, you're gonna be stuck blind firing around a corner to keep them from advancing on you, hoping the police get there before you're out of ammo. A shotgun would help, but getting it would probably involve covering open ground under heavy fire (which is no bueno).

Best you can do is be aware of your surroundings; good cover, blind spots, approaches and exits, etc. If anything happens, youll be able to pick where you make your stand. I wouldnt worry about the cops as long as you identify yourself and dont point a weapon at them. Lesson one in law enforcement is to assess the situation and address the biggest threat (ie the bad guys with machine guns).

But given the number of crimes of that caliber, and the number of concealed carriers in CO (meaning you probably wont be the only one fending off the meth jockeys), your odds of surviving are better than you think. Still not great, but better.

Last edited by THEZACHARIAS; February 21, 2009 at 06:39 AM.
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Old February 21, 2009, 12:34 PM   #5
Deaf Smith
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It's just not a rumor. Real the papers. Plenty of info on it. Google 'Mexico narco' or such and you will real alot on it.

I suggest a good light carbine in your car or truck. I don't really care what it is as long as it's reliable, you can shoot it well, and it's legal.

Also a cell phone, first aid kit that can handle gunshot wounds, good powerful flash light, blankets, and fire extinguisher.

If you have a CCW, carry your weapon!!! Hopefully you can get to your rifle in time.

You are far more likely to just see the aftermath and help those injured (and that's the reason for the firstaid kit, cell phone, fire extiuisher, etc...

But, if things go bad, you still have your weapons.
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Old February 21, 2009, 12:34 PM   #6
natjohnb
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Quote:
I've been hearing that Mexico is really becoming a rough place. Police are openly attacked many times with millitary grade weapons. RPG'sm, grendades, M60's. A big area of conflict is a boarder town in Mexico that feeds many illegal things, mostly drugs, up I25. I25 just happens to run right into my part of Colorado. Considering a worst case where some Mexican drug cartel guys get into my neck of the woods. I only carry a couple pistols, against a few guys with full autos and who knows what else, I feel superbly out-gunned. Of course I'll **** my pants and try to run away against those odds but if bullets are flying and running isn't an option I will fight like hell. I'm considering carrying my shoty in vehicle, and hoping it is accessible in a situation, and that I have enough amo. Using a shoty leads to more problems for me, because no doubt a fire fight will draw our fine boys in blue to the scene. Plenty of them, and they'll be armed and ready to shoot first so they go home to their families. (I subsribe the same mentality) So I'll need to contact 911 dispatch and alert the police that I'm a good guy. Which will be difficult trying to plink bad guys with a 12g at the same time. I see a tough situation here. If your response is that this situation will never happen, I'm paranoid, all I need is a wheel gun and no reloads, you needn't respond. So here's my question, what would you guys do to prepare for something like this? Or, for those of you who actually carry a reload or two, or a back up gun, would u feel comfy holding position with a pistol until the po-pos show?
You only have one option, really.

You will need to dual-wield your pistols throwing out as much lead as possible as you tactically exfiltrate to the nearest mall.

Once you are in there you can flash your CCW badge at the nearest security guy and he will then direct you to the mall tactical security team area where you can load up on some serious firepower.(full-auto M4s, grenades, tactical sniper rifles and mp5s)

I'm sure the mall security reaction team will be happy to assist you in their armored electric assault cart as you go to fight off the Mexican Drug Cartel Hoard.
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Old February 21, 2009, 12:52 PM   #7
Creature
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Quote:
So here's my question, what would you guys do to prepare for something like this? Or, for those of you who actually carry a reload or two, or a back up gun, would u feel comfy holding position with a pistol until the po-pos show?
The only preparation you, or any of us, can possibly do is to carry a reliable weapon that you are intimately familiar with, keep your head on a swivel, look for that second avenue of escape where ever you may be at that moment,...and, like rule #23 of the USMC Rules of Combat stipulates: Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill every one you meet.
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Old February 21, 2009, 01:09 PM   #8
chris in va
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I also read Phoenix had over 300 kidnappings either last year or in a year's timespan.

I really am concerned about Americans living along our southern border. Yikes.
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Old February 21, 2009, 03:26 PM   #9
FlyboyTx
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Preparation--not Panic or Fear

We live relatively close to the Mexico border, and within 100-200 miles of prime terrorist targets (Houston, Dallas). Relatives who live and work in South Texas and frequently cross into Mexico say the media reports aren't the half of it, and that conditions on the ground--depending on location--are actually worse. And it's coming our way.....but if the rounds begin to fly, so will I--in the other direction--but if we have to turn and fight.....

Since 9/11, in each of my 2 vehicles there rides what I (and others) call a "72-hour Kit."

Each kit contains sufficient food supplies (and food procurement ability), water (or water making equipment), medical supplies, fire making ability, shelter, etc, for two people for 72 hours--widely accepted as the amount of time needed before "help" from the "gub-ment" would arrive.

Both of my vehicles are AWD, enabling me or sweetie to evacuate or make tracks away from a threat in either vehicle at any time--even off road if required. Both are maintaned at 1/2 tank of fuel or more at all times.

The "food procurement" ability consists of a three-gun battery (pistol, rifle, shotgun) in the lower compartment of the 36" wheeled duffel containing the kit in each vehicle. There is only enough ammo for immediate personal self defense...er, food procurement...less than 200 rounds total.

Battery 1 (mine): XD-45 and 4 mags, Springfield M1A1 w/modified Choate folding stock and 4 mags, Mossberg 500 w/pistol grip and 25 rounds.

Battery 2 (sweetie): XD-9 Sub-compact and 4 mags, Bushmaster M4 carbine and 4 mags, Mossberg 500 w/pistol grip and 25 rounds.

With the two kits ready 24/7 we have 72 hours' supplies for 4 family members, with a "zero notice" evac. Even 30 minutes notice would allow us to gather family members (pre-planned), add food and fuel cans, ammo containers, combine both 72-hour kits into one vehicle and launch...wherever we needed to go with about a 1,000 mile range.

Oh, and yes, Virginia, in a state where travel is measured in hours v. miles, 1,000 miles (about 15 hours) can be a day trip.

The sun has riz,
The sun has set,
And here we is
In Texas yet.

FBT
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Old February 21, 2009, 07:51 PM   #10
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Get an AK 47 and lots of ammo!
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Old February 21, 2009, 09:15 PM   #11
eric75
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Beware, the anti's (including the Mexican Government) are saying the guns come from the north side of the border.

This might explain the extra news coverage for something that may have been going on for a long time.

Just my uniformed opinion.
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Old February 22, 2009, 07:09 PM   #12
Deaf Smith
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Quote:
Beware, the anti's (including the Mexican Government) are saying the guns come from the north side of the border.
Yea, and they also say grenades, machineguns, and RPGs are bought at the gunshows!

I'd like to know where those gunshows are! Never seen one and it would be might interesting. Like do they tape the pins in the grenades at the door? Do they allow loaded LAWS? Can you swap an M-60 for a MAG?

Like I said, it would be a interesting gun show!
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Old February 22, 2009, 07:42 PM   #13
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If you ever have to face full auto fire. Count on several things. There stands a very strong chance that whoever is conducting said full auto is not trained by highly qualified professionals.
They do not know how to conduct close quarter combat.
More likely it will be a surprise and hit tactic.
Get cameras and post them on your property. Get an alarm that notifies you that someone is approaching your residence if feasible.
Get a good German shepherd dog and Train that dog. One bump in the night and let that dog go first.
More than likely full auto will not be as accurate as you would think it to be.
It will be terrifying. Hit the ground and hit cover. Cover means no penetration. The corner of a house means you can return fire with a shotgun so learn how to shoot right handed and left handed and be proficient with either side. Proficiency is easier than you think. It does take practice. The spread of a typical shotgun is about one inch per yard of travel from the muzzle. If you don't have a shotgun then get one and pattern it. Stock up on 00 buck. I suggest you learn how to use and fight with a shotgun. They didn't call those things a trench clearer for nothing.
Accurate fire from a dependable rifle will kill a man who wants you dead and just as dead whether he is shooting full auto or not.
The main thing he wants is the element of surprise. You don't give it to him.
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Old February 23, 2009, 12:43 AM   #14
doh_312
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Excellent replies guys. I want to go live with FlyboyTx, he's really got his s*** together. I think I'll try to mirror your 72hr kit. I already keep the gas tanks at 1/2 or higher. I'm buying a 4WD vehicle soon. Deaf Smith, I do have my CCW and I carry at least one gun with two extra mags daily. Sometimes I have two or even three guns on me. I'll definatly be moving a shotgun to my car. I don't have any rifles yet, besides the .22, so I'll look into that. THEZACHARIAS it is indeed true that CO issues a lot of CCW, and I do hope I'll habe a fellow CCW around in bad time. Hopefully they are just as good with their gun or better. Creature, I like your knowledge of the USMC rules. That #23 made me chuckle but I do like the sound of that planning. Anything that makes you more prepared in defensive situation is a good thing. burnera, absolutely I'm running, if possible. And I absolutely hope it doesn't take an incident like that for our Gov't to get into action about this whole border issue. Again thanks for the feedback guys, I feel like I can prep much better now.
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Old February 23, 2009, 01:00 AM   #15
Nnobby45
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Quote:
If you really have to fight, a pistol will be worthless. Even with a rifle, being outnumbered like that, you should duck out and run.
What a great mindset. They're too heavily armed. I don't have a chance with my pistol. Give up before the fight starts, and succumb to psychological surrender if it does.

There's no one here who knows what they'll be armed with in the unlikely event that Mexican drug transporters come our way, and the even less likely event we'll find ourselves fighting it out with them. They tend to kill each other, but yes, innocent folks can certainly be caught up in it.

Wait until the country of Mexico, that's riddled from top to bottom with hopeless corruption, collapses and the narco traffickers take over the country (sounds like they have already along the border). What's already happend in Phoenix will happen in many parts of our country as the narco wars and those fleeing from the violence spill into our country in huge numbers and fan out in different directions.

Texas LE is preparing for such an event as we speak.

Last edited by Nnobby45; February 23, 2009 at 01:05 AM.
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Old February 23, 2009, 01:22 AM   #16
MatBananas717
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Quote:
Beware, the anti's (including the Mexican Government) are saying the guns come from the north side of the border.
Quite a few of them do, actually. Not the RPGs or GPMGs that some cartels use, but they have bought stuff like FN Five-Sevens and PS90s through relatives living in Texas. There are all kinds of stats going around about just how much of the stuff they have is of American origin (meaning, bought originally in American gun stores), but I've heard Mexican police officials citing figures everywhere from 50% to 90%.

It's not just the cartels buying the guns, either; Mexican civilians who are unable to buy guns in their country are also finding ways to purchase guns north of the border so that they can have them for self-defense.

Also, I live in Austin, TX, and I occasionally hear people at the ranges where I shoot talking about how they've seen tattooed Mexican dudes going to local FFLs just to window-shop, and then a second later, some Latina comes in and buys the same gun that he was seen looking at earlier. I dunno how many Texas FFLs have had this experience...
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Old February 23, 2009, 02:07 AM   #17
ronl
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Your greatest asset in any confrontation is your own brain. Keep your cool, assess the threat and move accordingly. In the situation you mentioned I'll give you the same advice as I gave to a newspaper reporter I gave basic weapons training to before he left for Iraq: Find the closest cover you can, make yourself very small, and return fire only if fired upon. If the situation you find yourself in bothers you much, I'd get an AR and keep it handy.
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Old February 23, 2009, 02:18 AM   #18
grey sky
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Mexican police

Mexican police officials reports of anything should be looked upon with great skepticism.
As I recall the head fo the Mexican equvalent to the DEA was living in a house owned by the largest Cartell in Mexico for that matter our guys were "suprised" by the news when it was found out.
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Old February 23, 2009, 11:27 AM   #19
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In case of a 'Red Dawn' scenario like you just described i would just try to make it home. Theres no reason you should be able to run to yr vehicle ans get out of dodge ASAP. Drug cartels are not in the business of laying waste to randome people for no reason. If they make it all the way to Colorado they have a very specific reason for being there and im guessing you arent it. Once yr at home just wait. The police/military will have it taken care of in no time.
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Old February 23, 2009, 12:41 PM   #20
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I'll second the above. Unless you have some reason to be dealing with them, the drug cartel could care less about you and won't bother you. If you should get caught in a mess between two groups in conflict, don't draw attention to yourself by getting into the sitaution, just hunker down and get out of when possible.
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Old February 23, 2009, 01:18 PM   #21
dbgun
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Quote:
I also read Phoenix had over 300 kidnappings either last year or in a year's timespan.
I read something along the same lines (maybe the same article), which really ****** me off, until I read further about how 90% or 95% (don't recall exact percentage but it was very high) were americans that were had dealings in the past with the drug cartels. If you run with the wrong crowd, bad things will happen to you.
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Old February 23, 2009, 08:50 PM   #22
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Don't worry, we will never let them get past Albuquerque.
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Old February 23, 2009, 10:03 PM   #23
doh_312
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Attaboy supergas! I don't run with any drug crowds so I'm not worried about them specifically targeting me. More worried about getting caught in crossfire or something gone terribly wrong.
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Old February 23, 2009, 10:50 PM   #24
Nnobby45
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It isn't just the drug trade. It's also the trafficking in illegals. Those who have participated have seen their family members kidnapped and held for ransom.

I suggest that those who think that we shouldn't be all that concerned because it's happening to Mexican nationals involved in illegal activity think again. It's going to affect all of us. The illegals mentioned are moving into regular 'ol American neighborhoods where full auto gunfire has erupted on more than one occasion. Children of illegals (read kidnap victims) and our kids go to the same schools.

Interesting that, in Phoenix, Sheriff Joe Arpaio has been successful in conducting raids and sending illegals to jail or back to Mexico. This includes drug dealers and other criminals.

Also interesting that the Police Chief of Phoenix won't allow his officers to have rifles even though they have to respond to incidents involving full auto weapons.

Interesting, and disgusting, that the Mayor of Phoenix, as well as the ACLU, has petitioned members of Congress to investigate Sheriff Arpaio for rights violations.

Saw Joe on Fox news today, and he says he's going to write letters to 4 members of a certain Congressional committee and invite the gas bags (my terminology)to come to Arizona and learn a little about which they're mouthing off (that's me again).

While inmates in the Maricopa jail are forced to wear pink underwear (otherwise they steal it), I wonder if the Mayor, the Chief, and the feminized little men of the ACLU, don't wear pink underwear by choice.

Last edited by Nnobby45; February 23, 2009 at 11:06 PM.
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Old February 26, 2009, 01:09 PM   #25
doh_312
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I agree, it isn't just drug trade that worries me. Human trafficing is a big issue. Just the fact they are here illegally is enough to worry. I saw a story in the new where an American citizen and his two sons were shot and killed by an illegal from the south. The illegal rolled as a gang member and packed an AK in his vehicle. It is theorized this was a road rage incident. Cant ask the victims-dead. Cant ask the shooter, disappeared with out a trace as so many illegals can and do. If I remember correctly this happened in Cali. Yet another testament to how gun control is protecting us citizens. To be fair the illegal had quite the jump on the family- Full auto coming from behind. But I like to think at least I'll get a shot or two back at him and though I'll probably die, I can try to take him with me or keep the others in the vehicle alive. Alas, Cali wouldn't have let them carry a weapon. From what I hear, the only reasons Cali issues CCW is if your a politician or judge who is threatened, or a female who is already a victim of a sexual predator. That is why I dont live in Cali.
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