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Old February 18, 2009, 10:48 AM   #1
waynesan
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Wyoming Drops 14 States From Reciprocity List

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was first made aware of this on another forum. I called the Wyoming Attorney Generals Office to confirm the facts as reported and its true.

I was planning on going to Wyoming this year on vacation. Now I'm going to have to make some changes in my plans. The following quote is from a directive sent out to all law enforcement agencies in the State.


Quote:
TO: All Wyoming Sheriffs
All Wyoming Chiefs of Police

FROM: Forrest C. Bright, Director

DATE: February 12, 2009

RE: Concealed Firearm Permit Reciprocity

I am writing to let all the agencies in Wyoming know of substantial changes resulting from review of other states’ concealed firearm criteria. The Wyoming Attorney General’s Office recently completed examination of the other 49 states statutes for the purpose of honoring concealed firearms permits issued by another state, or reciprocity.

Pursuant to Wyo. Stat. Ann. § 6-8-401(a)(iii), Wyoming will recognize a permit from another state that “has laws similar to the provisions of this section, as determined by the attorney general . . ..” The Wyoming Attorney General has determined that with the exception of 8 states, presently all the others concealed firearm permit statutes are not sufficiently similar to Wyoming’s. Specifically, Wyo. Stat. Ann. § 6-8-104(b)(v) prohibits issuance of a permit to any person who has been convicted of a controlled substance violation, felony or misdemeanor in any jurisdiction. Most other states’ analogous
statutes do not.

The Wyoming Attorney General holds that if a misdemeanor drug conviction disqualifies a Wyoming resident, is also needs to disqualify an out-of-state permit holder. Due to the difference in how each state handles controlled substance convictions, Wyoming is also limited in our ability to maintain reciprocity with states we may have previously.
Accordingly, as of March 1, 2009, Wyoming can only honor concealed firearm permits issued by the following states: Connecticut, Ohio, Georgia, Oklahoma, Maryland, Oregon, Massachusetts and Utah.
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Old February 18, 2009, 11:26 AM   #2
azredhawk44
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Arizona ARS 13-3112:

Quote:
E. The department of public safety shall issue a permit to an applicant who meets all of the following conditions:

1. Is a resident of this state or a United States citizen.

2. Is twenty-one years of age or older.

3. Is not under indictment for and has not been convicted in any jurisdiction of a felony unless that conviction has been expunged, set aside or vacated or the applicant's rights have been restored and the applicant is currently not a prohibited possessor under state or federal law.

4. Does not suffer from mental illness and has not been adjudicated mentally incompetent or committed to a mental institution.

5. Is not unlawfully present in the United States.

6. Has ever satisfactorily completed a firearms safety training program authorized by the department of public safety pursuant to subsection O of this section and provides adequate documentation that the authorized training program was satisfactorily completed. For the purposes of this paragraph, "adequate documentation" means a certificate, card or document of completion from an authorized firearms safety training program pursuant to subsection O of this section, dated not more than five years earlier than the date of application, that has affixed to it the stamp, signature or seal of the instructor or organization that conducted the program, or a current or expired permit issued by the department of public safety pursuant to this section. This paragraph does not apply to:

(a) A person who is an active duty Arizona peace officer standards and training board certified or federally credentialed peace officer or who is honorably retired as a federal, state or local peace officer with a minimum of ten years of service.

(b) A person who is an active duty county detention officer and who has been weapons certified by the officer's employing agency.

(c) A person who is issued a certificate of firearms proficiency pursuant to subsection X of this section.
Hmm. Nothing in there about the War On (some) Drugs. I'm not particularly interested in drug use, but I'd like reciprocity with Wyoming. Perhaps time to add just a little something to Arizona statute?


Quote:
Specifically, Wyo. Stat. Ann. § 6-8-104(b)(v) prohibits issuance of a permit to any person who has been convicted of a controlled substance violation, felony or misdemeanor in any jurisdiction. Most other states’ analogous
statutes do not.

The Wyoming Attorney General holds that if a misdemeanor drug conviction disqualifies a Wyoming resident, is also needs to disqualify an out-of-state permit holder. Due to the difference in how each state handles controlled substance convictions, Wyoming is also limited in our ability to maintain reciprocity with states we may have previously.
Is there anything else missing besides the drug misdemeanor conviction?
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Old February 18, 2009, 11:36 AM   #3
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Politically correct silliness! A misdemeanor should never be an excuse for a lifetime loss of rights.
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Old February 18, 2009, 12:29 PM   #4
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There's a big difference between how Wyoming deals with drug offenses and Kalifornia.....I'm glad I'm in Wyoming.
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Old February 18, 2009, 01:03 PM   #5
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waynesan,

I understand the frustration, but why would this make not want to visit Wyoming??? Seems a little paranoid to me.
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Old February 18, 2009, 01:23 PM   #6
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So whats the problems?

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Old February 18, 2009, 02:31 PM   #7
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Quote:
waynesan,

I understand the frustration, but why would this make not want to visit Wyoming??? Seems a little paranoid to me.
All I'm saying is that as I consider flying out West for vacation, I will be more inclined to visit and spend my money in states and areas where it is more convenient and where I am not burdened with having to be careful on how I handle my gun. And since the new National Park rule went into effect, I would not be able to carry in a NP in Wyoming since they have chosen not to honor a Tennessee permit.

As far as adjusting our travel plans I will now more likely visit Montana or at least spend more time there since I have spent little time in either State and they both have a lot to offer vacationers.

Its really not about being "paranoid". No more so than not doing business in a store that has a "no guns allowed" sign in the window. If there is a store down the street that has the same merchandise for about the same price, they will get my business.
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Old February 18, 2009, 02:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
As far as adjusting our travel plans I will now more likely visit Montana or at least spend more time there since I have spent little time in either State and they both have a lot to offer vacationers.
I try not to let the gunwoobie issue interfere with my travel plans, elst I would have never have gotten to visit the Verdun battlefield

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Old February 18, 2009, 03:26 PM   #9
Gbro
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Wyoming dropped more than 14 states, I count 19.
Connecticut, Georgia, Maryland, Massachusetts, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon and Utah.
Green are states that are new to the reciprocity list and red are states previously listed.
These states were listed on this site last updated 1/14/09,
(I understand this site is only a summary and the state official web page is where we should look for the definitive answer)

AL, AK, CO, FL, ID, IN, KY, LA, MI, MS, MT, NH, NC, "NM", PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, are dropped.

Then If you have an out of state Utah permit,looks like you are good to go.
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Last edited by Gbro; February 18, 2009 at 03:28 PM. Reason: last line
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Old February 18, 2009, 03:37 PM   #10
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just a side note, Wyoming allows you to carry openly without a permit. If you would like to come to Wyoming and Wyoming no longer has reciprocity with your state, you can still carry, just ware one on the outside...with pride!
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Old February 18, 2009, 06:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
just a side note, Wyoming allows you to carry openly without a permit.
Well that's an option I did not know existed. That certainly puts things in a better light.
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Old February 18, 2009, 08:41 PM   #12
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I understand what you are saying waynesan. Just come to New Mexico.
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Old February 18, 2009, 09:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
There's a big difference between how Wyoming deals with drug offenses and Kalifornia.....I'm glad I'm in Wyoming.
Since I don't so much as drink I don't really have a dog in this race but 2nd Amendment rights are rights and just like I'm in the fight to defend our rights here I'll defend your rights there. If you choose to shoot people for smoking a joint at 16 or stone women for adultery thats up to you. But stripping someone of their constitutional rights should only be reserved for a felony not an infraction.
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Old February 18, 2009, 11:00 PM   #14
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is being fair and balanced "stripping" you of your rights?

Wyoming has appaently decided that when other state's citizens visit, they should be held to the same standard as Wyoming citizens. Is there a fundamental flaw in that approach?

Not honoring your out of state CCW permit is NOT stripping you of constitutional rights. If you need a permit, it isn't a right.
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Old February 19, 2009, 12:50 AM   #15
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I have a problem with any state (including my own) using non-felonies to restrict rights. Now perhaps you don't see bearing arms as a right but I do. If Wyoming chooses to treat marijuana smoking as a felony that is their right. It's silly, but they have they right to make silly laws - God knows we have more than our fair share. What I'm saying is resident or non-resident non-felons should not be stripped of the rights afforded the rest of society. But if you want to defend the concept that the right to bear arms is merely a privilege to be granted, revoked or ignored at the whim of government then that is your right.

FWIW my Utah permit appears safe, at least until coffee is banned.
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Last edited by sholling; February 19, 2009 at 12:56 AM.
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Old February 19, 2009, 03:59 AM   #16
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Quote:
WildlifeistoshorttoworryaboutwhowillletyoucarryagunornotAlaska
Interesting point, I suppose, but travel is a lot nicer armed when carrying your work laptop with sensitive info (client's SS #'s and info for insurance policies), a rifle or two, and other goodies anyone who spots an out of state traveller might decide to attempt cashing in on.

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Old February 19, 2009, 03:20 PM   #17
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MrSardonicus
Quote:
just a side note, Wyoming allows you to carry openly without a permit. If you would like to come to Wyoming and Wyoming no longer has reciprocity with your state, you can still carry, just ware one on the outside...with pride!
I have been told that Open Carry is restricted in many places in Wyoming and that many cities have actually outlawed it. Is this true?
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Old February 20, 2009, 12:42 AM   #18
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Quote:
I have been told that Open Carry is restricted in many places in Wyoming and that many cities have actually outlawed it. Is this true?
No.
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Old February 20, 2009, 12:50 AM   #19
MrSardonicus
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While it is true that businesses can post a sign on their entry doors stating that they do not allow open carry in their establishment, and the same restrictions which apply to concealed carry apply to open carry, it is my understanding that municipalities cannot disallow one to carry openly in one's own vehicle and out of doors. I have numerous close relatives who are LE's in no less than 7 different counties. Some Sheriff's Deputies, some HP's, some PO's. They all say the same thing, and I quote; "God bless Wyoming, cuz you can walk down any street in this here state with a loaded hoglegg on your hip right out there in front of God, Adam, Joe and Jane, and aint no 5-0 gonna bat an eye."

according to opencarry.org:
Wyoming

Summary
Wyoming is one of our "Gold Star" open carry states. There is complete state preemption of all firearms laws, open carry is constitutionally protected and law enforcement is aware of its legality.

State Constitution Article I, Section 24: The right of citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the state shall not be denied.

Minimum Age to OC: No Statutory Limit

Preemption: Complete State Preemption of All Firearm Laws

NOTE: Almost all states allow local regulation of the discharge of firearms

Open Car Carry: You may open carry in a vehicle. It must be clearly visible.

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Old February 20, 2009, 12:56 AM   #20
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I just got an email from Wyoming's US Senator Mike Enzi which included the following:

Enzi co-sponsored a bill to support the Second Amendment. S. 371, the Respecting States Rights and Conceal Carry bill, would allow individuals to carry lawfully concealed firearms across state lines, while at the same time respecting the laws of the host state. Some states with concealed carry laws already grant reciprocity to permit-holders from other select states. This bill would allow permits to be valid across all state lines as long as traveling individuals follow the laws of the host state, including laws concerning specific types of locations in which firearms may or may not be carried.

I knew I liked this guy...
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Old February 20, 2009, 06:09 AM   #21
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Well that really SUCKS considering that I live 20 minutes from the WY border and travel through the state often when home to visit friends in CO.

Damn it!
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Old February 20, 2009, 07:07 AM   #22
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Grrrrrrr.....

Sent five minutes ago.

won't do a bit of good, but I feel a little better and this is all about ME dammit.



Director Bright,

My name is Chad Dixon. I’m the chief armorer and firearms instructor for the security force tasked with guarding the United States Embassy in Baghdad, Iraq. I also possess a concealed weapons carry permit issued by my home state of South Dakota.

I have always enjoyed traveling through Wyoming’s Thunder Basin National Grasslands while on my way to participate in competitive shooting events hosted in CO and NM. Especially during the spring as it’s an opportunity to witness thunderstorms the likes I’ve never seen anywhere else. These events have always fascinated me.

Transporting several thousands of dollars worth of precision target rifles carries its own set of inherent risks and I take them seriously, so I’ve always carried my 1911 pistol with me on every one of these trips. Never once has it ever created a problem. Not even when I was once cited for driving a bit too fast just south of Newcastle a few years back by a Wyoming State Highway Patrolman.

I’ve always felt very fortunate and very good about being able to carry a sidearm. Not only because of the level of protection it offers, but because I live in a country where it’s possible to even do so. It’s a small tangible reminder of why I dedicated six years of my life to the US Marine Corps. In my travels I have worked and operated in a number of industrialized and third world countries where the very idea of carrying a firearm hidden inside a shirt would be considered an insanity and beyond comprehension.

Imagine then my disappointment when I learned that you have used the power of your office to change the law. It’s disheartening to learn that if I’m ever caught doing this again I’ll be a criminal. Since I am a law abiding citizen I’m left with essentially two options. Use an alternate route or transport the pistol in a status that is compliant with Wyoming law. Never mind the mixed message you are sending with the recent changes to laws governing National Parks and firearms.

Director Bright the gun culture of America is a powerful one and since the internet it has become even more of a viable entity. The word is out regarding your decision and people are not receiving it well. I question if legislation that compels law abiding nonresidents to avoid Wyoming is an exercise in good judgment in the midst of the greatest economic yeast infection since the great depression.

I just thought you should know how your decisions affect others.

Respectfully,

Chad Dixon

Last edited by longrifles, Inc; February 20, 2009 at 07:23 AM.
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Old February 20, 2009, 09:25 AM   #23
elkman06
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Quote:
This bill would allow permits to be valid across all state lines as long as traveling individuals follow the laws of the host state
I will take this as to mean "host" being the state of issuance,,correct?
I read this in Colorados' law. It is unusual as it states that they honor certain states' permits,,only if that person is a resident of their host state. Meaning, the fellow from Calif who has a Utah permit, may not carry in Colorado.
thoughts or have I interpreted this wrong?
Secondly, while I won't pretend to know all of the cities bylaws here, I seriously doubt that you will encounter any kind of problem in our state while carrying, unless you attend a drunken concert or concert drunken.LOL
A friend of mine who has been here only 3 yrs once asked me if the rifles in my p/u gun rack were loaded, to which I replied that they were only expensive clubs w/o bullets. He is from Mich where apparently guns in racks get you pulled over.
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Old February 20, 2009, 11:11 AM   #24
longrifles, Inc
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This letter was sent by me this afternoon (Baghdad time)

Quote:
Sent five minutes ago.

won't do a bit of good, but I feel a little better and this is all about ME dammit.



Director Bright,

My name is Chad Dixon. I’m the chief armorer and firearms instructor for the security force tasked with guarding the United States Embassy in Baghdad, Iraq. I also possess a concealed weapons carry permit issued by my home state of South Dakota.

I have always enjoyed traveling through Wyoming’s Thunder Basin National Grasslands while on my way to participate in competitive shooting events hosted in CO and NM. Especially during the spring as it’s an opportunity to witness thunderstorms the likes I’ve never seen anywhere else. These events have always fascinated me.

Transporting several thousands of dollars worth of precision target rifles carries its own set of inherent risks and I take them seriously, so I’ve always carried my 1911 pistol with me on every one of these trips. Never once has it ever created a problem. Not even when I was once cited for driving a bit too fast just south of Newcastle a few years back by a Wyoming State Highway Patrolman.

I’ve always felt very fortunate and very good about being able to carry a sidearm. Not only because of the level of protection it offers, but because I live in a country where it’s possible to even do so. It’s a small tangible reminder of why I dedicated six years of my life to the US Marine Corps. In my travels I have worked and operated in a number of industrialized and third world countries where the very idea of carrying a firearm hidden inside a shirt would be considered an insanity and beyond comprehension.

Imagine then my disappointment when I learned that you have used the power of your office to change the law. It’s disheartening to learn that if I’m ever caught doing this again I’ll be a criminal. Since I am a law abiding citizen I’m left with essentially two options. Use an alternate route or transport the pistol in a status that is compliant with Wyoming law. Never mind the mixed message you are sending with the recent changes to laws governing National Parks and firearms.

Director Bright the gun culture of America is a powerful one and since the internet it has become even more of a viable entity. The word is out regarding your decision and people are not receiving it well. I question if legislation that compels law abiding nonresidents to avoid Wyoming is an exercise in good judgment in the midst of the greatest economic yeast infection since the great depression.

I just thought you should know how your decisions affect others.

Respectfully,

Chad Dixon

Here is the response:

Chad:

Upon further consideration, the Wyoming Attorney General’s Office is undertaking a thorough review of the concealed carry statutes of the 49 other states to determine which states have laws similar to Wyoming’s. Once that review is complete, the Division’s web site will feature a list of the states from which Wyoming will honor concealed carry permits. Until then, the Division of Criminal Investigation will honor permits from those states with which Wyoming had reciprocity as of January 1, 2009.

Accordingly, Wyoming will continue to recognize concealed firearm permits from the following states. The listing also encompasses those states that have indicated they honor Wyoming permits.

Alaska Louisiana Oklahoma
Alabama Michigan Pennsylvania
Colorado Mississippi South Carolina
Florida Montana South Dakota
Georgia New Hampshire Tennessee
Idaho New Mexico Texas
Indiana Ohio Utah
Kentucky

You will find the states listed above have also been revised on our website shown in paragraph 9 at http://attorneygeneral.state.wy.us/dci/CWPFAQ.html


Forrest C. Bright
Director
Wyoming Division of Criminal Investigations
316 W. 22nd Street
Cheyenne, WY 82002-0150
Office: 307-777-7181
Fax: 307-777-7252
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Old February 21, 2009, 11:10 AM   #25
Gbro
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Wow,
That was a fast change!
The squeaky wheel got some grease

Anyone have the E-Mail address for,
Director Bright? I can't find it on the Wyoming site.

But what happened to, Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, Oregon
They were on the Wyoming list a few days ago?

As I tell the New and Refreshing attendees in my gun class, "Keep Updated" these lists change

Elkman;
http://www.bca.state.mn.us/CJIS/Docu...it/States.html
Minnesota laws authorize individuals holding gun permits from the following states to carry in Minnesota:


Alaska
Arkansas
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Michigan
Missouri
New Mexico
Nevada
Ohio
Oklahoma
Tennessee
Texas
Utah

Wyoming

Please note that the permit issued by your state does not supersede Minnesota’s laws or regulations. Legal conduct in your state may not be legal in Minnesota.
And this list is dated Feb. 21, 2009
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Last edited by Gbro; February 21, 2009 at 11:33 AM.
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