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Old February 19, 2009, 01:05 AM   #26
SMiller
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Empty mag, insert new mag, repeat! Wild animals belong in the wild, no excuses!
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Old February 19, 2009, 08:52 AM   #27
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQepG...eature=related

Pretty dangerous indeed, seeing how they ripped this monkey apart.
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Old February 19, 2009, 09:13 AM   #28
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"It don't matter, he'll rip the doors right off."
That cant be right. An exaggeration perhaps?
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Old February 19, 2009, 09:19 AM   #29
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I wonder if it had anything to do with the fact that the owner gave the chimp a Xanax.
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Old February 19, 2009, 09:30 AM   #30
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No, "Creature", it's not an exaggeration. They are perhaps 5 times as strong as a grown man when enraged. There are reports of ****** off apes in zoos rearranging their exhibits. I always wanted to be a zoo vet when I was younger and all I read was books about animals. Their bones are more dense and their shape is such that they have greater mechanical advantage and then there is the muscle mass and very thick tendons. I'm not sure if the muscle fiber is significantly different but I'd imagine that the differences are impressive - with respect to strength.

I fear apes. They are more powerful, faster and intelligent.

They also castrate the people (and I assume each other) when they attack. So they will leave you a faceless, handless eunuch.

Rifles up!

I had the opportunity to play with a tiger cub. He weighed about 55 to 60 lbs. He was a strong as a grown Rottweiler. I'm dead sure that a 50 lb chimp is about as strong as an adult male human. They should not be kept as "pets". Same with monkeys and whatnot.
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Old February 19, 2009, 10:27 AM   #31
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No matter how strong you say they are, a single 9mm or 38 to the chest would have an effect on them. They are in the same class as Baboon strength wise and killing a baboon with a .223 is common.

Their strength comes mainly from the manner in which the muscles are attached to the bone, and where, its like using a lever with the fulcrum way in, to the fulcrum way out. They are strong, and they lack any sort of social control that a human might have in saying, if I break this, I am going to pay for it.

As for ripping a door handle off, no way, they might get their fingers in the under the glass or the window frame and bend it, but I have done that with my hands and its not that hard. Again, its a matter of intensity.

Needing anything like a Stopping Rifle for a chimp is COMPLETELY laughable. Hundreds of thousands have been killed for food using every thing from arrows to AK's. They are not made of kevlar, and if you poke a hole in them they will bleed.
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Old February 19, 2009, 11:15 AM   #32
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And dont forget those teeth. In both of those latest attacks mentioned, they went right for the fingers/hands. One snip and they were off.

If you were holding your arms in front of you (drawn) you probably dont have much time to get your shots off before they get to those hands.

Note, they're faster than humans and dont run straight like humans. From the other attack videos they hop and bounce using all their limbs. Talk about a hard to hit moving target!
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Old February 19, 2009, 11:31 AM   #33
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Let's hope they don't become Zombies!!

To be more productive - they also have more mitochrondia in their cells for extra energy according to a neuroscientist friend who works with primates.

The papers say the woman used to sleep (in bed) and bathe with it. If she was too 'close' is under debate. It is not unknow for some primate researchers with gorillas to go off the deep end towards the animal.
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Old February 19, 2009, 11:35 AM   #34
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What they didn't tell us was the owner had rigged up a TV in the chimp's cage and never changed the channel from CNN.

No wonder the poor beast went apeshlt.
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Old February 19, 2009, 12:16 PM   #35
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Tactically speaking...

JohnKSa wrote:
Quote:
This thread is for discussing the tactics of defending against the admittedly unlikely attack of a Chimp or other large primate.

It's not for discussing the ethics or wisdom of having exotic or dangerous animals as pets, the intricacies of animal psychology or the proper treatment of animals in captivity.
OK, sure, but...

I'm a bit puzzled by this. As others have noted in this thread, adult chimpanzees, especially males, are notoriously dangerous animals -- the cute, cuddly ones we see in movies, etc., are infants. Folks who do behavioral research on primates (I was one, briefly, a really long time ago) are well aware of this, and it's standard practice to "retire" adult, or even adolescent, chimps to sanctuaries where they're not in close contact with people.

Keeping an adult chimp as a pet is NUTS -- it's a disaster waiting to happen. "Ethics and wisdom" aside, when we discuss other self-defense situations -- getting mugged, getting into fights in bars, road rage, even home invasions, the tactic of not getting into the situation in the first place is usually discussed at some length, so why not in this case?

If I knew someone who kept one of these animals as a pet, loose in the house, "situational awareness" would dictate that I'd stay the hell away... and try really hard to convince her, were she a friend, that she needed to find it a more suitable home.
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Old February 19, 2009, 12:43 PM   #36
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Hundreds of thousands have been killed for food using every thing from arrows to AK's. They are not made of kevlar, and if you poke a hole in them they will bleed.
And when one is hunting any type of animal the hunter has the time to make proper shot placement. That is obviously not the case in a defensive situation. For anyone to armchair qb this and insist that it could be done quickly and easily must not have ever had the chance to fire their weapon in defense while undergoing the massive adrenalin dump.

Perhaps some need to do their own research into the physiology of primates before making ignorant statements.
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Old February 19, 2009, 12:45 PM   #37
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To be more productive - they also have more mitochrondia in their cells for extra energy according to a neuroscientist friend who works with primates
Wait, are you saying they are also Jedis?
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Old February 19, 2009, 01:07 PM   #38
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That said...

If I had to be in the same room with one, I think I'd want to have a 12 gauge pump (or, heck, an autoloader), loaded with 00 buck, at the ready... and I darn sure wouldn't turn my back on the critter.
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Old February 19, 2009, 01:18 PM   #39
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Yea, to the original question.... of everything in my safe.... a 12 gauge would be preferred in my opinion. I have read numerous 'authorities' that state the same thing, that once 'in grasp' of many of the wild animals that would attack a human.... stuffing ones hand/arm down the throat would minimize further injury and allow the other hand free to do whatever with (I would hope I'd still have a gun in hand). Not too sure about that either.... but I have read it a few places.

This is just another instance/reason for NOT owning animals that have been "domesticated". There is always danger there. And I think too few of these owners actually respect that and take all safety precautions serious enough.
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Old February 19, 2009, 02:10 PM   #40
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Chimp

Seems to me a 12 gauge with 3'' or 3 1/2'' 00 buck would be just the ticket for rowdy chimps.
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Old February 19, 2009, 02:36 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanya
As others have noted in this thread, adult chimpanzees, especially males, are notoriously dangerous animals
Thats so true Vanya and not only that they are, as has been previously noted, many times stronger than an adult human, carnivorous and have the ability to use weapons, such as sticks and clubs. Having my brains bashed in and/or testicles bitten of by an enraged 200 LB chimp is not a pleasant thought.

I'm of the opinion that in an enraged chimp attack situation, however unlikely that scenario may be, that the time for head shots would be at hand. Hope you are carrying at least a 9 mm and try and blow it's brains out the back of it's skull as quickly as possibly. Why you ask? Look what multiple chest shots from close range did in this situation, the animal could have easily continued the attack, or attacked someone else after it fled.
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Old February 19, 2009, 02:54 PM   #42
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Quote:
Quote:To be more productive - they also have more mitochrondia in their cells for extra energy according to a neuroscientist friend who works with primates

Wait, are you saying they are also Jedis?
They are strong with the dark side of the Force.
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Old February 19, 2009, 02:58 PM   #43
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The real problem is you can domesticate them, about 99.9999%, same with bears, tigers, some lions, female jaguars, snakes, feral cats, cheetahs, but, the one time they have an anxiety attack, loose their temper, even get scared by an unexpected noise, you, or someone else ends up dead, or severely injured.

So, your only real choice is to be constantly prepared for that inevitability, and, this lady was not.

Also, the ability to anticipate the animals potential triggers is vital. A more common, but still deadly example is my friend in Hawaii's pitbull. On the 4th of July, he had to be sedated, since the noise would really scare him, and, an otherwise loveable dog put his claws through my surfboard, covered with 5 layers of 6 oz glass, and a hot and gloss coat. That was WITH the drugs...before they kicked in.
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Old February 19, 2009, 03:23 PM   #44
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Was this animal even 'fixed'?

My sister works with horses and has relayed stories of stallions biting and mauling people. You dont want to be picked up by the skin of your neck, I can tell you that much.
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Old February 19, 2009, 03:43 PM   #45
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The real problem is that to have a domesticated animal, you have to get rid of the genetic traits that lead to the outbursts.
Just as in dog breeding, when you get a dangerous dog, you either do what the chimp did to that guy, or shoot it so the trait is out of the genetic line.

An example of what such a problem can be was a friends cow. She was frisky, mean, and had her own mind. She would try and run my friend over, break out of the pen, and, with a 1000 pound cow, you either have to shoot it, or use a CAR or truck, or maybe horse to get it back into it's pen.
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Old February 19, 2009, 03:57 PM   #46
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Chimp is misleading. Call it an Ape and the perspective changes.

There is a difference between an animal shot for food while it is standing around and one enraged and attacking. This made me remember why my backup mags for my 10mm are loaded with DoubleTap 200gr XTP hollowpoints @ 1200fps...
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Old February 19, 2009, 03:59 PM   #47
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Keeping a non-domesticated animal, especially a primate, as a house pet is just asking for trouble. Its just common sense.
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Old February 19, 2009, 04:40 PM   #48
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The real problem is you can domesticate them, about 99.9999%
Quote:
The real problem is that to have a domesticated animal, you have to get rid of the genetic traits that lead to the outbursts.
Exactly. It's worth clarifying this, because it's a distinction not everyone gets: we're talking about taming wild animals, here, not domesticating them. Domestication involves selective breeding, over many generations, to produce a strain of animals which are docile around humans, and reasonably easy to manage: e.g. cows, horses, dogs... With some species, say pigs & cats, it's debatable how "domesticated" they ever get; with others, reindeer, for example, it just doesn't take.

But it's never been done with chimpanzees; they're wild animals, which it's possible to tame if they're either bred in captivity or caught very young -- but they have nothing in their genetic makeup to make them tolerant of humans. They're social animals, and as infants, they depend on and are submissive to their caregivers, the same as any social mammal that takes a long time to reach maturity, but once they're grown, that's it -- can't trust 'em worth a damn.

Quote:
Was this animal even 'fixed'?
Good question. I'd bet not, given the way apes, in particular, are anthropomorphized... "Ooooh, we couldn't do that to darling Travis..."
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Old February 19, 2009, 05:09 PM   #49
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news reports are now saying this woman has lost her jaw and both eyes. Shes a candidate for a face transplant.
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Old February 19, 2009, 05:43 PM   #50
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news reports are now saying this woman has lost her jaw and both eyes. Shes a candidate for a face transplant.
Holy crap. Thats brutal.
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