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Old February 17, 2009, 09:49 PM   #1
MikeGoob
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Chimpanzee Attack

Maybe you have heard about the latest animal attack--In California on monday, a 200lb Chimpanzee that was raised in captivity, like a human, suddenly mauled a woman. If you think this might be a joke, check out what kind of damage this thing did: He severely mauled her face and "He bit both of her hands off...It's terrible," said Lynne Mecca, a friend of the victim.


Article here:
http://wcbstv.com/breakingnewsalerts....2.936381.html

And in 2005 a chimpanzee attacked a man very severely, biting off all his fingers and 'other parts' leaving him in a coma for several weeks.

Ive looked up 'chimp attack' on youtube and seen some pretty scary attacks. These guys apparently like to disable the hands and fingers first, perhaps instinct to a primate attacking another primate. Anyway I was thinking, what do you do in the face of such a vicious creature, apparently able to bite off fingers like snacks, that is instinctively lunging at your hands. Can you retain your weapon? Is it even possible to defend yourself with a bladed weapon if your gun is knocked away?

I know its not likely to face an angry chimp. It just made me think. What could you do?

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Old February 17, 2009, 09:55 PM   #2
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Honestly, I don't know. If your armed, of course, then you have some chance to avoid injury. I seriously doubt a backup blade would have done much good. Its a sad situation and people should realize that keeping 200lb monkeys and tigers and bears is ill advised.

From what I understand it trapped a LEO in his car and then proceeded to open his car door when the cop double tapped it. Also, heard some of the neighbors reporting that this animal was NOT friendly and this was a problem before all this happened. Imagine living next to a 200lb monkey who hated your guts. Sad situation.
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Old February 17, 2009, 11:15 PM   #3
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Monkey attack

Chimps are not particularly benign. Some years ago there was a researcher studying baboons. He was interviewed, and pointed out that he always carried his broomhandle Mauser pistol when he was out in the field with the baboons. His experience had led him to conclude that they were dangerous and untrustworthy.

More recently, several animal researchers were severely injured by chimps. They were not armed.
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Old February 17, 2009, 11:54 PM   #4
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Chimps are extremely dangerous and as they mature, it gets worse.

Forget using a blade---might as well use one against a rhino.
The owner of this chimp was stabbing it with a butcher knife to stop the attack--didn't work.
According to what I read and heard on the news, he bit the hands off and ATE them.
Many people do not know that chimps eat meat and love it----they eat more than bananas.

The owner NEVER should have called in someone the chimp did not live with.

As far as a firearm, IF you were extremely quick and at the ready AND able to make the first shot a "fatal" shot, you may stand a chance.
Wild animals are WAY faster than we are and close and cause damage very quickly.
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Old February 18, 2009, 01:19 AM   #5
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Quote:
Maybe you have heard about the latest animal attack--In California on monday, a 200lb Chimpanzee that was raised in captivity, like a human, suddenly mauled a woman.
It was in Connecticut.

That chimp got what was coming to him.
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Old February 18, 2009, 01:35 AM   #6
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Deleted a couple of posts.

This thread is for discussing the tactics of defending against the admittedly unlikely attack of a Chimp or other large primate.

It's not for discussing the ethics or wisdom of having exotic or dangerous animals as pets, the intricacies of animal psychology or the proper treatment of animals in captivity.
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Old February 18, 2009, 01:53 AM   #7
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Well first of all if your neighbor has any kind of animal that you are unsure about, then you need constant situational awareness, which you should already have. My backdoor neighbor has had a large, seemingly ill-tempered pitbull for a while and I have always kept that in my mind while outside. There is nothing better than being aware and being prepared. The places we are most comfortable we are also most vulnerable. All of that being said, a chimp can and will rip your limbs from your body.
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Old February 18, 2009, 03:14 AM   #8
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IIRC, the guys that go to Africa generally shoot baboons on site. They are an African pest, apparently. They are extremely tough, and a 375 H&H, or even the 375 Rum are not considered improper. Same with Hyenas.

Chimps aren't far behind. They are incredibly powerful, and, your chances of getting a shot off aren't much, since they are also VERY fast, and smart.

Watch a chimp take a car tire and bend it into a figure 8, and you'll get the general idea.
In this situation, there simply is never enough gun.

Situations like that are what this gun was designed for:
Quote:

530-268-6877
IIRC: The .510 Van Horn is a shortened .460 or .378 Weatherby case, made to fit in a standard action, necked up to .510". It will give you a chronographed 2150 fps, with a 600 grain Barnes solid.
It's a beautiful rifle, and a piece of history. The price includes dies and brass. Please contact Jack for the exact details.
The rifle is the one without the scope in the pictures, and the darker wood.


The loose brass is the 600 grain Barnes, @ 2150 fps. It is ONLY a stopping rifle, setup to feed 600 grain round nose bullets. This is the perfect PH rifle.
Heres what it looks like shooting it:
Price is $2500.00
P17 enfield action. rifle was made by Bob Boggs and Charlie Merit, using Gil's reamer. First Van Horn big bore. Recoil lug/rear site assembly was done by
Ed Harris.
Comes with dies, brass about 30 pieces, already formed.
This is a stopping rifle, period. Same class as the .505 Gibbs, etc.
It feeds FLAWLESSLY.

And all those folks that make fun of our high powered snubbies, this one's in 50-110, that's a buffalo cartridge:


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Old February 18, 2009, 04:19 AM   #9
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I think what makes animal attacks so bad is the difference in the mental state after being shot. A chimp can be killed with any caliber that’ll effectively kill a human, but unfortunately an animal doesn’t react the same as most humans would when mortally wounded. While there are exceptions, many people will stop an attack after being shot. An animal is likely to fight to its last breath.

I guess the first thing you have to accept in this kind of attack is the fact you’re not going to walk away unscathed. Stand with your non-firing side forward, then let the chimp chew on your non-firing hand and arm while you unload with your firing hand. When thinking about a dog attack I’ve always figured this is likely your best bet. I don’t see it being any different in the unlike event of being attacked by a chimp.
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Old February 18, 2009, 05:32 AM   #10
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Quote:
I think what makes animal attacks so bad is the difference in the mental state after being shot. A chimp can be killed with any caliber that’ll effectively kill a human, but unfortunately an animal doesn’t react the same as most humans would when mortally wounded. While there are exceptions, many people will stop an attack after being shot.

+1. The psychological factor in one-shot stop statistics is hard to quantify, but is doubtlessly a large factor for humans. This is why it is difficult to look at one shot stop statistics of a given cartridge. It is nearly imposible to determine how much the psychological factor(s) had to do with a person ending the fight after the first shot... Many people are just predisposed to fall down after getting shot.

This is why it is important to train to place several shots, spaced 2-3" apart rapidly to the threat. Both body then head shots fired continuously until the threat subsides. With an animal attack of any kind, this same rule would apply. Keep shooting until the threat is over. Of course for larger animals like a bear, lion, elephant, etc... a more powerful cartridge then what is typically carried would be needed. For common animals that pose a threat, dogs, coyotes, chimps...a number of service rounds fired to the body/ head should do the trick.
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Old February 18, 2009, 06:24 AM   #11
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I don't think you are really factoring in how weak humans really are.

Just watch a chimp swing around sometime, and you get the distinct feeling that they have cables for tendons, and, are solid muscle of a type humans can't really dream of.

Likewise cats. My cat can jump about 8 times her height.
That would make Dwight Howard a real superman, with a 56 foot vertical.

Back to primates:

One of the strength tests for gorillas is twisting truck tires into figure eights. Another:
Non-husked coconut in super thick packing cardboard.
Gorilla shakes box. Uses thumbs to peel cardboard off that would take a packing knife for us. Gets to coconut.
Shakes by ear. Peels husk like it's the skin of a grape.
Now has coconut. Pushes down on the ground. Does it again, slow, coconut breaks open. Gorilla enjoys the milk.

The apes have a mechanical advantage in the way their tendons are connected, related to humans. They are farther apart, and, that gives them a huge leverage advantage.

By the way, chimps are pretty good at this kind of stuff:
Quote:
California chimp attack leaves man in critical condition

Last Updated Fri, 04 Mar 2005 14:04:36 EST

CALIENTE, CALIF. - Two chimpanzees broke free from their cage at a California animal sanctuary Thursday, chewing off most of a 62-year-old man's face and biting his wife.

The couple, St. James and LaDonna Davis, had been visiting their former pet chimp Moe at the Animal Haven Ranch. Moe had been removed from their Los Angeles home in 1999 for aggressive behaviour.

The couple, who had brought a birthday cake to Moe, were standing outside his cage when two other chimps in an adjoining cage, Buddy and Ollie, attacked.

Sanctuary officials say they don't know how Buddy and Ollie escaped from their cage.

Hospital officials say St. James Davis is in critical condition with massive injuries to his face, arm and leg. His testicles and a foot were severed and he will require extensive surgery to re-attach his nose.

His wife, LaDonna, was bitten on the hand while trying to save her husband.

The son-in-law of the sanctuary owner shot and killed Buddy and Ollie.

Two other female chimps in the cage with them also escaped, but were captured five hours later and returned to the enclosure.nterviews with the local people who were on scene and the man's wife reported that the injured man and his wife were having a birthday party for their chimp and the other chimps seemed to react when they saw the group eating birthday cake. Four chimps (2 male and 2 female) escaped their cage and the two male chimps attacked the group. The man reportedly stepped in front of his wife to protect her and took the brunt of the attack. After they got him down on the ground, the chimps gnawed his foot, testicles and face off. The wife was injured on the hands when she was trying to get the chimps off of her husband. When the son in law of the sanctuary owner came on scene he had a 45 in his hand but realizing how severe the attack was went back inside to reload with heavier ammunition. He killed both male chimps as one of them continued to attack the man and the other stood over him making threatening gestures. The pet chimp "Moe" apparenty took no part in the attack nor did it try to defend the couple. Sanctuary workers gathered up the man's nose and privates and put them on ice in case they could be re-attached.

The two female chimps who escaped with the males wandered around the hills for a few hours. One had to be sedated and loaded into a truck and the other wandered around until it found a family walking down a nearby road. It apparently waited with them until it was picked up by the authorities who were looking for it.

By the way, even a .577 Nitro Express is not a one shot stop on lion, unless perfect placement, CNS.
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Old February 18, 2009, 06:43 AM   #12
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http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2009...tacks_wom.html
Conklin said it wasn't clear what set him off, but theorized Travis' bout with Lyme disease - which can cause panic attacks, paranoia, personality changes and mood swings in people - could be connected. Travis was taking medication for the disease, Conklin said.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2009...rs_horr-2.html
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Old February 18, 2009, 07:16 AM   #13
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Actually humans are not necessarily all that weak. It's just that they (we) are better at some things than most animals and not so good at other things as most humans. Humans are particularly good at running (no joking here), not that people are so fast but few animals could run a long distance, not that they ever would. But many animals can out jump humans easily. But also, most animals are in better training than the average human, too.

Chimps used to be used a lot in jungle movies but they were generally young and even so, actors reported lots of bites.
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Old February 18, 2009, 07:38 AM   #14
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Animals in general do not act like humans when fataly shot. All they know is survive. They don't go "oh i'm shot boo hoo", they will fight to the last breath and then some.
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Old February 18, 2009, 07:39 AM   #15
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I do remember hearing one tactic with dogs: If they are running at you and a bite is imminent, you hold out your 'bad' forearm for them to bite (hopefully with a shirt wrapped around it if you have time). While he bites what you hold out, your good hand can stab/shoot his underbelly, neck etc.

With a chimp that can apparently snip off fingers and hands with those teeth, im not sure that would work too well however
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Old February 18, 2009, 08:56 AM   #16
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From general looking around, it seems that most apes that are shot are shot with 30-06 or larger caliber rifles.
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Old February 18, 2009, 09:09 AM   #17
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Quote:
I think what makes animal attacks so bad is the difference in the mental state after being shot. A chimp can be killed with any caliber that’ll effectively kill a human, but unfortunately an animal doesn’t react the same as most humans would when mortally wounded. While there are exceptions, many people will stop an attack after being shot. An animal is likely to fight to its last breath.
I've made this point many times in the past. Also I've held a very young chimp one time, maybe 55-65 pounds. It was AT LEAST as strong as I am. A full grown chimp is phenomenally strong compared to a human.

Tactics for dealing with one? Well, anything would be better than trying to take it on bare handed that's for sure.
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Old February 18, 2009, 03:27 PM   #18
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Here is the 911 call: warning--VERY disturbing

http://www.youtube.com/v/OXK8Y_62Ysw

The most poignant part is perhaps the woman SCREAMING for guns. Kind of drives home the point that you need to have a gun well before you actually need to use it.
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Old February 18, 2009, 04:19 PM   #19
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That is very disturbing.
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Old February 18, 2009, 04:33 PM   #20
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One of the disturbing things is you can tell the dispatcher thinks it's some kind of prank at first.

At 2:25 the friend is torn up and she's says "my god where are they, where are they?"

3:26 - They finally arrive and start shooting.

Seriously, an excellent response time by the police but may literally have been a lifetime for the friend.
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Old February 18, 2009, 09:57 PM   #21
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A sad story, my heart goes out to the owners and the victim. When I first read the story in the news I started my what gun for Chimps count down. It didn't take long. The most dangerous animals on the planet have opposable digits. Chimpanzees have 4 of them. Maybe we should strike now?
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Old February 18, 2009, 10:19 PM   #22
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One of the disturbing things is you can tell the dispatcher thinks it's some kind of prank at first.
I got the impression that he was unsure what was going on at first. Given the womans state of mind, I can understand that.

Quote:
Ironically, CBS 2 HD has also learned that the same chimpanzee escaped from his owners' SUV back in 2003 and caused havoc in downtown Stamford before police put down the then-175-pound animal with a tranquilizer gun.
That should have been the end of Travis the Chimp.


Anyone actually seen any pics of the victim? From what I understand her face was ripped off, hands gone, etc.

Also, does anyone know what they hit the chimp with and how many rounds it took? I think I heard 3-4 on the tape, but I wasn't counting.
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Old February 18, 2009, 10:48 PM   #23
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This report suggests that he'd been hit w/ multiple shots from the officer's service pistol - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E4G4gtsOQQ

FWIW adult chimps are notoriously dangerous. The ones you see on TV and in the movies are typically much younger. They're usually retired to sanctuaries, or some other appropriate setting, once they get older.
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Old February 18, 2009, 10:53 PM   #24
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ZeSpectre, its possible the recording is edited for time.
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Old February 19, 2009, 12:59 AM   #25
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For those who still don't understand how strong a 200lb chimp is there's an informative exchange near the end of the 911 call.

The dispatcher advised the chimp owner to lock her car doors and she replied:

"It don't matter, he'll rip the doors right off."
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