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Old February 12, 2009, 07:15 PM   #1
Gaxicus
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The role of the .22 in practice and training.

Ammunition and reloading component costs skyrocketted as a result of the price of copper (as a component of brass) going up. The price of copper has been much lower for months now but it seems shooters arent seeing any price relief yet.

With some of the tactics of the gungrabbers shifting to ammunition; a 500% tax on ammo and such, using full power loads to train might be very difficult to sustain.


I have already started incorporating a .22 in some of the stuff we do to practice to try and keep trigger time at an acceptable rate but it looks like I might have to do more.

I have even started excluding my handgun purchases to those with a "matching" .22 to keep the feel as consistent as possible. I have looked at the conversion kits but have yet to purchase one.

Im sure im not the only one using .22s more.

Please post your experiences, training methods, equipment choices, results, etc.
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Old February 12, 2009, 07:59 PM   #2
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even if the cost was not an issue training with .22's is still a good idea. shooting .22 allows you to work on your sight alignment and trigger control with actual feedback that you don't get with dry-firing but without fighting the recoil of a full-power load. it's great if you develop a flinch because the very low recoil will help you get over it.

even if cost were no issue I'm a huge fan of training with .22's
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Old February 12, 2009, 08:10 PM   #3
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I won't be buying a .22 any time soon. I just have more important things to do with my paltry stipend from Mrs. Grymster. But I have considered the .22lr conversion kit for her Glock 17. Most of that I've read about it is positive and I do think it would make for a good training tool.
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Old February 12, 2009, 08:12 PM   #4
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Flinch

I have been kind of wondering about the flinch.

Im an old revolver shooter with a father who would load a dead round into the 44 for me from time to time when I was a kid. Man would I get a razzing about flinching. I should thank him for doing that.

For those that werent lucky enough to have a dad like mine, it seems that the .22 might cause flinches when you went to full power rounds. Its kind of hard to measure something like that. I wonder how I can start keeping track with some kind of objective standard.

The one thing I did notice is that people seem to shoot with a more relaxed grip and shoulders. Even when they go full power they seem to retain the relaxed stance. The grip part kind of gave me some concern but it hasent proven to be a problem yet.

Marksmanship has improved dramatically but its hard not to attribute that to fixed barrels being so common in the .22 but I bet a good deal of it is shooter comfort.
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Old February 12, 2009, 08:16 PM   #5
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me and a buddy just went thru a federal 550 bulk pack yesterday. we used pistols and rifles.

there was more .22 brass in the buckets than any thing else. more people are shooting it than anything else.
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Old February 12, 2009, 08:21 PM   #6
bcarver
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tech sights

Just put two sets of Tech Sights on two RUGER 10/22 rifles.
Plan to use them to participate in Appleseed Shoots and pratice for high power competion.
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Old February 12, 2009, 09:40 PM   #7
Gaxicus
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Conversion kits

Has anyone tried the .22 conversion kits for their carry/defense gun?

I've heard mixed reviews.

Anyone?
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Old February 12, 2009, 09:45 PM   #8
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Walther g22

I have a walther G-22 bullpup. I also have an M17 bullpup in .223

It WAS pretty accurate, lightning, fast, and just looked cooler than any other 22 at the range.

It was fairly analogous to my M17 but...

Sadly, I have had nothing but problems with it lately. Charging handle bolt sheared off, then some parts broke in the reciever.

Im totally disappointed. Waiting for a response from Mfr.

Just an FYI
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Old February 12, 2009, 09:50 PM   #9
Brian Pfleuger
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I have no doubt about the training benefits of the venerable 22lr. I do have serious doubts about my ability to:

1) Stay awake while shooting it.
2) Drag my butt to the range to shoot it.


BORING! Yep, it's great, everyone should practice with one every chance they get. Really. But I can't do it. Yawn.
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Old February 12, 2009, 10:09 PM   #10
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Thought about a conversion kit for my pistol, but it cost more than a 22 pistol. So, being real logical :wink: , I just got a Ruger 22/45. It's a fun little pistol and there's nothing better than putting 550 rounds downrange and only being out $13.
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Old February 12, 2009, 11:47 PM   #11
Jim March
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My main carry gun is a Ruger New Vaquero in 357 (yeah, daily CCW). I now have a Cimarron "Plinkerton" in .22LR that like the NewVaq, closely matches the feel of an 1873 Colt SAA.

While the Plinkerton isn't exactly "heirloom quality", for what it is it isn't half bad. It's pot metal with steel inserts in the barrel and cylinder, similar to a Heritage, but it's full SAA size and feel and is otherwise surprisingly well made.

It's close enough to the Ruger that they fit the same holsters, including a closely fitting kydex setup I made. So I can go out in the desert east of Tucson and do draw/fire practice. It groups around 3.5" or so at 25yds with the first ammo I tried (Federal bulk-pack cheapo stuff) which is good enough.

For less than $200, the Plinkerton is a surprisingly good deal in an SAA-class trainer. It is NOT a gun I'd trust my life to (!) but to bring my ammo costs down? It works fine.

http://www.gunblast.com/Cimarron-Plinkerton.htm
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Old February 13, 2009, 12:40 AM   #12
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I've always tried to mirror my big guns with a little gun.
I try and setup all my rifles with either the same scope, or open sites:
I try and have my 22lr setup so that it's very close in all functions to my bigger, .375 and others:

Note the 22lr has similar stock length, and, a butt pad that isn't needed, except it makes the two rifles nearly the same in length
While not yet finished, the 252 FA 83 will get custom grips like the other boomers, giving me a gun to check and see if I'm flinching

I used to have a Colt Trooper III 22lr. but, it was not similar to my SA guns, and, it was sort of odd gun out. Sold it to fund the 252.

I try and have a 22lr that mirrors the controls, and functions of any of my large guns. That gives me a cheap way to practice, and, make sure my flinch isn't getting too bad...
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Old February 13, 2009, 05:50 PM   #13
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Long live the .22LR

Yes, do plan on obtaining a .22LR either as a conversion or a stand alone. I must say I have gone through about 5 Walther P22 in the last 5 years.

Why a .22?

1) Training for new shooters
2) fun plinker to just shoot the heck of a good time
3) cost of ammo
4) trigger time

So, I shoot a lot. Okay let me define a lot. In less than 2 years alone I must of gone through 3 cases of Remington Golden Bullet (550 per pack x 12 boxes per case). That's about 20,000 rounds (I got them when they were on sale for $9.50) per box. Plus I shot about a case of 45ACP, 2 cases of 40 and so far have gone through 1.5 cases of 357Sig (great deal from Georgia Arms on frangible target rounds).

Now especially in today's age of high cost ammo. A 22LR is great to have. Whatever set up you choose be it stand alone .22 or conversion it's a great idea.
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Old February 13, 2009, 08:20 PM   #14
mrt949
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I carry a seecamp 32 but practice with a beretta 21 a.it's all up your nose type shooting
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Old February 13, 2009, 08:21 PM   #15
Gaxicus
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.22 games

Other than just punching paper, what training games to you play to keep from falling asleep when shooting a .22.

I dont really fall asleep but I have to admit that it does leave a bit to be desired (you are not alone)

We do soda can hop height, spin, hop it and hit it (very fun with two shooters, especially when you get 3 or more hits).

There are some things you just cant do, or do affordably, with a full power gun. I would say I run at least 500 rounds through my .22s every time. Its not like we are trying to go through them, just that we do.

Please post some games or training ideas you use to keep it interesting.

Oh, and some of the spin targets are junk, please post info if you found some good ones that hold up.
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Old February 13, 2009, 08:36 PM   #16
Gaxicus
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Bird shot in a .22 for safer training

Some of the stuff we have been doing lately has me a bit nervous about the shots going a bit too high above the horizon. We have a pretty high backstop but we had a few shots that had some real height to them and decided we had to stop.

My buddy mentioned bird shot as a possible solution. Not cheap and I know absolutely nothing about using it. Anybody out there use it much?
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Old February 13, 2009, 08:41 PM   #17
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You're not doing it right...

Quote:
I have no doubt about the training benefits of the venerable 22lr. I do have serious doubts about my ability to:

1) Stay awake while shooting it.
2) Drag my butt to the range to shoot it.


BORING! Yep, it's great, everyone should practice with one every chance they get. Really. But I can't do it. Yawn.
Grab a case of cokes, a couple of cheap frisbee, and a picnic lunch.

Drink cokes and throw cans randomly around.

Roll frisbee across ground.

Shoot cans and rolling frisbee with any .22 handgun until your brick of ammo is gone.

If you didn't have fun, sell all of your guns and take up golf.

--Shannon
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Old February 13, 2009, 08:44 PM   #18
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I try to shoot every week (but, for one reason or another, I only make about three out of four weeks). Owning several .22LRs facilitates this.
Every time I shoot, I warm up with a .22. If I'm shooting revolvers, I bring my S&W M18. If I'm shooting semis, I bring a Ruger MkII or MkIII. Then a box of centerfire. A total of 150 rounds in about an hour; realistic and meaningful practice at a reasonable ammo cost.

My markmanship has improved dramatically in the year that I've been doing this. I plan to continue.

As far as "games" go, don't know if this counts, but...

About two weeks ago, I tried something new. Target 15 fet away, pistol at a low ready, pointing downward at 45 degrees, eyes on the floor in front of me (wearing a ball cap to ensure I cannot cheat). Three, two, one. Raise eyes to target, raise pistol, fire one shot, not using sights. I guess this is "point" shooting(?)

First magazine, I was hitting the 8 1/2" x 11" target, but it wasn't pretty. By the second mag I was getting a "pattern" (not a group, but effective at SD distance). I tried the same with the last mag or cylinder of each gun I've shot in the last two weeks (.22 LR, .45 acp and .45LC), and it is entertaining and illuminating. Once again, I plan on continuing this.
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Old February 13, 2009, 09:06 PM   #19
mrt949
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On some range days i shoot my walther p22 for warmup then go to s@w m@P compact.
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Old February 13, 2009, 09:39 PM   #20
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AACK .22 unit for your Glock is one of the best buys you can make.

A Ruger 10/22 with a peep sight substitutes for an M1 Carbine very well also.

A Kimber .22 unit for a 1911 does the same as the AACK unit does for the Glock.

Smith makes a .22 subnose kit gun that's an understudy for a J frame.

And some guns, like the Bersa .380, they make .22 versions.

Considering the cost of ammo, I highly recommend a .22 sub unit for you carry gun.
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Old February 13, 2009, 10:47 PM   #21
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We've got an Advantage Arms .22 conversion kit for our Glock 19. The light alloy .22 slide comes with Glock adjustable sights and looks like the 9mm version. The kit includes one 10 round magazine, plus a loading tool and cleaning kit.

We can still use the Crimson Trace laser and rail-mounted flashlight with the .22 kit installed. Only we can practice shooting in the basement instead of the going to the range. The ammo's a lot cheaper too...

Here's where we got ours:
www.advantagearms.com.

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Old February 14, 2009, 02:07 AM   #22
Gaxicus
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Your on

Quote:
About two weeks ago, I tried something new. Target 15 fet away, pistol at a low ready, pointing downward at 45 degrees, eyes on the floor in front of me (wearing a ball cap to ensure I cannot cheat). Three, two, one. Raise eyes to target, raise pistol, fire one shot, not using sights. I guess this is "point" shooting(?)

I am definitely going to try this. I cant do some of my drills on an indoor range. Its getting to be a longer and longer drive to outdoor shooting areas (as in, the boonies). This drill I really like. I do lookups, but the hat is awesome. Proper head/sight alignment drill. Very nice. I bet its pretty tough. I havent drilled with that much emphasis on head alignment. Great drill for revolver shooters.

I know it sounds, well, kind of nerdy but you could use a hat with a really long/wide bill and kind of roll it to a half circle like Ive seen some wear it in music videos on CMT. ( it took me a minute to find a nice way to describe the hat. got nothin obviously)

You could work on horizontal alignment if you turn your head to the side in random directions when pre-staging (looking down) with a hat like that.

I wonder if it might emphasize tunnel vision and toe point though....... Not sure. Im going to give it a try tomorrow.

Great idea. Thanks.

Last edited by Gaxicus; February 14, 2009 at 02:20 PM.
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