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Old February 14, 2009, 05:48 PM   #51
David Armstrong
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This part of my previous post is part of a much larger post. If one reads the whole thing, they will find that it is not on either side and was made solely to point out the fact that you can't say whether it was alright to draw or not!
Sure you can. You (generic, not specific) take the information that is available and base your decision on that information. If there is nothing there to indicate that one could draw, then one cannot draw. That is a basis for all reasoned discussion and certainly is the basis for a reasonable response. You must have a reasonable fear, etc. Absent that, you cannot legally act. You deal with the information provided. Then if more information becomes available one can modify their position to meet the new information.
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By saying that they guy was "minding his own business", you are adding the qualifier that he was minding his own business!
Maybe I missed it, but where did anyone other than you say that?
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EDIT: I'm not specifically saying that you said "minding his own business" and by using "you" I didn't mean to refer directly to David Armstrong.
When one quotes a person directly I think it normal to assume that the person quoted is the "you" being mentioned. So if you are not specifically saying "you" as a direct reference to me, why do you keep quoting me to talk about "you"? I'm getting lost here<G>!

Last edited by David Armstrong; February 14, 2009 at 05:54 PM.
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Old February 14, 2009, 07:30 PM   #52
BuckHammer
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To explain how I used the word "you":
Take "By committing a crime, you become a criminal" (note that the sentence is used for grammar, not an essential part of the debate). I'm not saying that any specific person became a criminal or committed a crime. I'm referring to any person. It would probably be better to phrase it this way:
"By committing a crime, one becomes a criminal"

I hope that helps.

EDIT: I did some thinking and realized that most of the post was an overreaction. I apologize to anyone who read it. In place of all that junk, I will only say to go back and read what I have already posted.
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Last edited by BuckHammer; February 14, 2009 at 10:47 PM. Reason: clarification
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Old February 14, 2009, 08:39 PM   #53
Nnobby45
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You cannot shoot based on a "could possibly" issue. You can shoot if you reasonably feel that you are in danger of death or great bodily harm (specific details vary from state to state).
I agree.

Ayoob once pointed out, on a tape I have, that if you were holding someone at gunpoint and they reached for their own gun or a gun sitting on, say, a table--- deadly force would be lawful.

He felt that that one could assume that if a criminal advanced toward you when you had him a gunpoint, you'd be just as justified in using deadly force, since his actions would be consistent with arming himself with your gun.

I agree. I'd be afraid of being disarmed.

Ayoob didn't say that every prosecutor would necessarily see it that way---but what else is new?
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Old February 15, 2009, 12:23 PM   #54
David Armstrong
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To explain how I used the word "you":
I understood, and that is why I put the little <G> and the smiley. I do it myself a lot. No harm no foul, let's all sing Kumbya and such.
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Old February 15, 2009, 12:26 PM   #55
David Armstrong
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He felt that that one could assume that if a criminal advanced toward you when you had him a gunpoint, you'd be just as justified in using deadly force, since his actions would be consistent with arming himself with your gun.
I agree with Mas on that, but that is based on the idea that you have already found a person involved in a crime and have elected to try to stop the commission of the crime. Very different, IMO, than someone walking in a public place who has not committed any crime yet.
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Old February 15, 2009, 12:31 PM   #56
JohnH1963
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This is a good question.

You have your gun drawn on an unarmed person and they continue to approach you in an aggressive manner.

Nevermind the reasoning of why you drew your gun, lets focus on what you should do if your gun is drawn and the person keeps approaching you.

What is the right thing to do? Fire on the person? Try to fend them off hand to hand? Do nothing?

This is a good question for the officers in this forum as they have their guns drawn at times on people who are not armed.

The only people that will determine if your actions are justified are a judge or a jury I might add...
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Old February 15, 2009, 01:21 PM   #57
Only S&W and Me
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Great question....I would like know this myself. Someone here posted that this happened to them and the guy fired a warning shot over the approaching person's head and they stopped. Not recommended, but what else can you do? You either aim for COM or fire the warning shot. I would be as aggressive as hell verbally before the gun is fired. You certainly don't want the BG to come at you and wrestle for your gun!
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Old February 16, 2009, 08:36 PM   #58
Brit
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David, was the following a spelling mistake? or are you deciding to defuse the situation, by being sociable?

[QUOTE][Perhaps The other guy could be just as much a good guy as you, me, or others. When you start pulling out gins and threatening thers /QUOTE]
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Old February 17, 2009, 10:33 AM   #59
David Armstrong
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LOL! Never underestimate my poor typing ability! however, if a nice gin would solve the problem, I'd go for it<G>!
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Old February 27, 2009, 12:00 PM   #60
ezenbrowntown
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Welcome to TFL.......

Glad to have you amongst us..........

You've already learned a valuable lesson, take everything with a grain of salt! There is a lot of information to be had on here. Some will be easy to find, some will have to be sifted through. You sure to find people who think like you do, some that seem a little extreme/timid as the case may be.

Concealed carry, IMO, is much more than just basic firearms knowledge. I've been taught firearms safety since I was little, been around guns my whole life, I understand safely handling a firearm, etc. However, CCW is a whole other animal. There is much more liability involved than just simple plinking on a range. I've personally been steadily researching it for the last year, and I plan on actually taking the class this next month.

Some take the approach of "you must carry now, before it is too late". To each their own, but someone not ready (physically, emotionally and/or spiritually) or prepared can be a serious liability to his/her self or family in my opinion.

Carrying a handgun is similar to having a fire extinguisher. You get it with the hopes that you'll never have to use it.
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