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View Poll Results: Would you choose an automatic weapon for HD?
Yes 45 26.01%
No 128 73.99%
Voters: 173. You may not vote on this poll

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Old February 9, 2009, 03:50 PM   #26
gollbladder13
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Quote:
FA is difficult to use and is really only good for fire suppression and area denial neither of which is suitable or appropriate for civilian SD.
Wellllllllllllllllllllll, it seems like "fire suppression and area denial" is exactly what I want. By the way, they work tremendously well for both of those.
Area denial, fine. But the OP was home defense. I doubt the first thing the BG is going to do is break your door down, come in and start firing down your hallway before seeing what they can take first.
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Old February 9, 2009, 04:07 PM   #27
DieHard06
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I would definately take advantage of one. I would take a MP-5 though not an automatic rifle. I am not real good or completely confident in a shotgun. I wouldn't want to fight someone coming into my home with a FA gun.

If FA guns were legal I don't see why explaining using them on a person to a judge would pose such a problem.
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Old February 9, 2009, 04:21 PM   #28
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If FA guns were legal I don't see why explaining using them on a person to a judge would pose such a problem


its a probelme because your using exessive force. some states ( ive heard, only stater i know for sure is my own) you can only respond to a threat with lesser or equal force. say your attack with a knife, then you can only use a knife or hands to defend yourself. pumping 20-30 rounds intoa BG is excessive force. usually they consider more then 3 to be excessive, along with shooting someone in the back
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Old February 9, 2009, 04:57 PM   #29
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In Ohio you're not supposed to kill bad guys...just "stop" them from killing or seriously injuring you. I'd probably be able to explain a series of double taps...but cutting the guy in half with a three second burst might be a stretch...

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Old February 9, 2009, 05:00 PM   #30
raimius
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Semi-auto shotgun would be my recommendation.

Saiga 12 with a 10 round mag, anyone?

Short, controlled bursts are best in FA, but I'd still put money on multiple 00 rounds to do the trick just as well (unless you are expecting intruders with body armor).
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Old February 9, 2009, 06:53 PM   #31
Tennessee Gentleman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyo Big Bore
Wellllllllllllllllllllll, it seems like "fire suppression and area denial" is exactly what I want.
I am not sure you would want it, particularly after the dust settled. Both fire suppression and area denial are military terms for military applications. Not I think for civlian SD.
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Old February 9, 2009, 06:57 PM   #32
NickW
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Maybe I’m missing something here but, the poll/question was “would you recommend an automatic weapon for HD?” So full-auto, no I would not, semi-auto I would.
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Old February 9, 2009, 10:33 PM   #33
tony pasley
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No to much brass to clean up and way to much home repair work afterwards.
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Old February 10, 2009, 12:19 AM   #34
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Semi-auto rifle would be fine, but I would take a nice Benelli M-4 over a full-auto for self defense any day.
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Old February 10, 2009, 12:41 AM   #35
El Paso Joe
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No to the full auto. I will not use anything that I have not gotten a fair bit of range time with and felt that I was competent to use. Haven't shot a FA since some time in 1972 (or maybe it was 1971...). 1st choice would be a 12ga pump loaded with #4 buck. If not that, then my m39 or m639. AND a 911 call...
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Old February 10, 2009, 01:57 AM   #36
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I wonder if many of the people on this thread realize that Firepower! is outside of the United States. His question is probably for his own purposes, where "DA's eating you alive" may not be a major concern. Also, the "would you choose a FA weapon" is pretty wide open, because it seems that if you are even open to the idea (with the assumptions he made in mind), then you must vote yes. I voted yes because, if cost or the law wasn't a concern, an MP5 would be great for defending my home, partly because there are no houses anywhere near mine. Where taking the law out of the equation does eliminate the legal problems with stray lead, it does not eliminate my neighborly concern for those who live near me, which is none, so FA for me (with those assumptions) would be a go.

If only those assumptions were reality for me...
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Old February 10, 2009, 12:29 PM   #37
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I voted no, . . . but I been thinking that I like the idea of having a tripod mounted M-60 sitting in a sandbagged bunker on my front porch.

Of course, . . . I'd have to have my old ass't gunner on my left, . . . and that would put him in the guest room, . . . permanently.:barf:

Nahhhhhh, . . . maybe just continue with the 1911.

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Old February 10, 2009, 01:58 PM   #38
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You may want to provide suppressive fire if you haven't got your trauma plates taped on. In that case, I can't see carrying anything less than a full auto MP5 to defend your home. I mean, suppose the BG is attacking at a distance with a .308. You could theoretically employ an armored briefcase for cover until you got into your wheelbarrow but isn't sending a wall of lead his direction a better solution?

Anyway. I suppose it's overkill when there are plenty of viable solutions to home defense which do not involve 20+ rounds, of which only the first few are controlled.
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Old February 10, 2009, 02:42 PM   #39
Erik
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I'll play:

Concerning the compromises which come with the various popular options, I prefer 5.56 carbines that are three round burst capable with the understanding that the selector switch should default to semi-automatic. Concerning close quarters, where necessary the round burst capability offers a controllable, reasonably accurate, decisive option.

Erik, whose work guns are class III, and whose personal guns are not. Do I feel underarmed and at-risk with my personal options? No.
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Old February 10, 2009, 02:46 PM   #40
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The original poster Specifically Stated that "Cost and the Law"]were not considerations.
Why do so many posters chose to ignore the actual question or circumstance as stated in a thread and therefore lose entirely what the questions original author intended.
It would seem logical and certainly more considerate to the author to either address the issue as stated, instead of "Jacking" the thread or keep your thoughts to yourself!!!!

To state his original question another way,

If you were asleeep in a house in a third world S---hole where killing and kidnapping were a constant and you woke up to to a home invasion with the sounds of multiple invaders, which system would you prefer to defend yourself with???

Given this scenario, (as with the original post) my answer would be entirely different than it might be here in the states with our NFA laws, DAs,
etc etc.
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Old February 10, 2009, 04:02 PM   #41
AK103K
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I'd take the full auto without hesitation.

I think most of the negative responses are due to people not having access or training with them to know. The comments about "hosing", or "pray and spray", "shooting at 100 yards", just shows that many dont have a clue of how they work or when to use them.

Like anything else, they are simply a tool and you need to know when, where, and how to use it.

With just a little training, people who would have difficulty shooting a 12GA loaded with buck, will have no troubles making good, fast hits on targets at realistic ranges.

Most pistol caliber SMG's are also a lot lighter and more compact than your average "riot" type shotgun. They are easier to maneuver and shoot quickly with (especially in tight spaces). This goes for everyone too, but especially for people of smaller stature.

They are also quicker and easier to load/reload, and if the need should arise, you can go from 0 to 50 yards (or more), without making an ammo change. Even if the gun doesnt have a selector, many guns will give you a one round "burst" if you know the gun and trigger.



Another thing that amazes me here is , how afraid and influenced by politically correct ramblings about "overkill", "over penetration",or "what the DA will say", etc.

First and foremost, who cares what the law or public opinion says, the idea is to win the fight, not worry about the possible consequences afterwords. If you have anything but the prize in mind while all this is going on, then you stand a very good chance of losing it, and for what, political correctness?

I have to wonder sometimes about some peoples priorities and mindsets, or lack thereof.
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Old February 10, 2009, 07:22 PM   #42
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Yes.

I'd use one for home defense, no problem. I think my HK MP5SD would be excellent for home defense.

Unfortunately, it is worth too much money to risk its loss to LEO confiscation following a shooting. Even if I get it back, no telling what its condition would be.
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Old February 10, 2009, 08:22 PM   #43
Terry A
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I'll say not for me and here's why. I'm very firm in my belief that a high capacity pistol is best for indoor work. Easier to do other things with a free hand and also, should you get jumped somehow, it's easier to keep a pistol pointed at the BG reather than a long arm. And also, my walls are thin...with a fully automatic, no telling who or what else will look like a screen door!

My M4 is the weapon of choice for outside work.


But the thought IS mighty tempting.....especially if I can have an H&K MP5 w/ 3 shot bursts!
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Old February 10, 2009, 08:39 PM   #44
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its a probelme because your using exessive force. some states ( ive heard, only stater i know for sure is my own) you can only respond to a threat with lesser or equal force. say your attack with a knife, then you can only use a knife or hands to defend yourself. pumping 20-30 rounds intoa BG is excessive force. usually they consider more then 3 to be excessive, along with shooting someone in the back


i think you might want to look into that. if someone comes at you with a knife, they are threatening the use of deadly force; therefore, you are authorized to use deadly force to stop that threat. deadly force is authorized (and i'm sure this is the same in every state) when there is an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury to yourself or someone else.
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Old February 10, 2009, 11:20 PM   #45
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It's very simple...

Very few people understand the proper tactics or techniques to employ full auto safely or effectively. I voted yes, but I have been through several tirehouses using live ammo full auto. The question is too vague. In a home, an MP5 or similar weapon might be appropriate. On my farm in Arkansas, a SAW or similar might be appropriate. An MP5 wouldn't work on the farm as well as a semi auto AR-15. A SAW wouldn't be appropriate in the house...But it would be FUN, FUN, FUN!!!!!
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Old February 11, 2009, 12:29 AM   #46
Firepower!
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please dont ignore assumptions in OP

Excessive force, DAs, Legalities etc....GUYS did you even read the OP? I have held these concerns constant to purely focus on tactical aspect. Plus you dont know how many BGs, so how can you go with a 6 shot shotgun or 1911?
And one of you made a comment regarding third world s***hole. Entirely uncalled for.
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Old February 11, 2009, 01:03 AM   #47
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Plus you dont know how many BGs, so how can you go with a 6 shot shotgun
That's why you practice stuffing fresh shells in at every opportunity with tube-fed shotguns.

Also, I just got some 12 round magazines for my Saiga 12 that function perfectly. If one were to go that route, they would have 12 instantaneous "bursts" of eight to twelve projectiles, where someone armed with an automatic rifle with a 30 round mag practicing good trigger discipline would only have 10 non-instantaneous bursts of three projectiles. Seems like a pretty even matchup, with the shotgun having the advantage at close to moderate ranges.

When you consider that the shotgun is easier for most people to shoot well compared to a full-auto rifle, that's another factor in the shotgun's favor.

Shotguns are nothing to sneeze at.
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Old February 11, 2009, 01:09 AM   #48
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I like my Taurus Judge for HD, short, and controlable, with a laser grip and 2 #6 shot, with a couple 000 bucks following, it will tear up an intruder.
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Old February 11, 2009, 07:37 AM   #49
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When you consider that the shotgun is easier for most people to shoot well compared to a full-auto rifle, that's another factor in the shotgun's favor.
I believe this to be just the opposite, and especially when the full auto is a pistol caliber gun.

Shotguns loaded with buck or slugs are not easy for "most" people to shoot well, but especially for women or children. You have to practice to be proficient, and I can pretty much guarantee, that after 25 rounds of buck or slugs, that "most" will tell you to take the shotgun and shove it.

Pretty much anyone can shoot an M16 or MP5 or something similar all day, actually accomplish something without going down hill as you go, and have fun doing it to boot.


I have both, SMG's and 18-20" barreled shotguns, and I shoot them both on a fairly regular basis. The older I get, the less I like the shotguns. Just tired of the bulk and beating I guess. An MP5 is a lot easier to shoot well and move around with and is a lot more precise at longer distances. Its also a lot easier to get a red dot on. (a couple of my shotguns have night sights on them too. Whats the point of this type gun if you dont?)

The best shotguns for this type of thing would be one of the 14" Benelli's or something similar. But then what you gain in handling, you loose in ammo capacity. If all you have time to grab is the gun, what would you prefer, 4-5 rounds of buck, or 30 rounds of 9mm or 5.56?

I know, silly question.
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Old February 11, 2009, 08:24 AM   #50
Firepower!
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I would rather pick mp5 sd or M4 with a suppressor. I just dont like to ruin my walls with shotgun shells and lets say the battle moves to outdoors i am at disadvantage with every yard of growing distance.
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