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View Poll Results: Would you choose an automatic weapon for HD?
Yes 45 26.01%
No 128 73.99%
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Old February 9, 2009, 01:32 AM   #1
Firepower!
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Automatic weapon

In a HD situation would chose an automatic weapon or not?

Assumption: cost and law are not factors to be considered. Setting is urban but not densily populated.

Please discuss your reasoning.
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Old February 9, 2009, 01:55 AM   #2
B. Lahey
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I would probably stick with a regular shotgun. At close range it's tough to beat.
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Old February 9, 2009, 02:12 AM   #3
vox rationis
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full auto? shotgun?

why not have both friends?

Saiga 12 full auto shotgun
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Old February 9, 2009, 02:14 AM   #4
Smallgame2100
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I would never choose a full automatic for anything.
Shoots too much and ammo isnt cheap by any means.

Not to mention with a full auto going off in the middle of the night, you'll wake up much more than just the neighbors.
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Old February 9, 2009, 02:17 AM   #5
exprt9
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I got to get me one of these!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4ebtj1jR7c
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Old February 9, 2009, 02:21 AM   #6
Smallgame2100
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That thing is pretty dang nice!
Huge and bulky, but won't have a bad guy/intruder think twice about running.
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Old February 9, 2009, 04:37 AM   #7
evan1293
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I would still take a shotgun over a submachine gun.

A subgun would be fun though.
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Old February 9, 2009, 05:09 AM   #8
garryc
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Full auto for SD, a prosecutor would eat you alive! I had several full autos years back. Boring.
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Old February 9, 2009, 08:02 AM   #9
Lee Lapin
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No.

If I can't get it done with a shotgun, a rattle gun wouldn't help any.

lpl
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Old February 9, 2009, 08:42 AM   #10
The Great Mahoo
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No.

I dislike full-auto in general. It wastes ammo and usually makes for sloppy marksmanship. (Some) People start to expect the gun to do the work and don't do their part.
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Old February 9, 2009, 09:38 AM   #11
Tennessee Gentleman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Mahoo
I dislike full-auto in general. It wastes ammo
Spot on. During my time in the military we trained our soldiers generally NOT to use full auto for that very reason. FA is difficult to use and is really only good for fire suppression and area denial neither of which is suitable or appropriate for civilian SD.

Mas Ayoob wrote a story about a guy who used one to defend himself (I think we worked for H&K) and he had some trouble for it but can't remember it fully.
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Old February 9, 2009, 10:14 AM   #12
freakshow10mm
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The guy used an automatic HK rifle. The DA wanted to come down on him but HK lawyered him up good and he beat the charges.

I wouldn't hesitate to use an automatic rifle for home defense. Police use automatic rifles for defense, why can't citizens?
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Old February 9, 2009, 11:29 AM   #13
B. Lahey
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I'm pretty sure that guy worked for FN-USA, and they dropped him like a rock as soon as trouble started. He was involved in a road-rage incident where some brainless weirdos chased him and shot at him. He pulled into an FN plant, got out an AC556 (full-auto mini-14) that he had in his truck for some work-related purpose, fired a warning burst into the pavement, and told them nicely to stop. One of the weirdos decided to continue the attack while screaming the tremendously stupid last words "F%&^ you and your fancy machinegun!". Mr. Ayoob and some others stood behind him in the horrendous legal adventure that followed, and he eventually came out on top.

That's what happened in the US, though. Other parts of the world are more MG-SD tolerant.
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Old February 9, 2009, 12:00 PM   #14
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No, he worked for H&K.
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Old February 9, 2009, 12:24 PM   #15
grymster2007
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Nope. It would be real easy to get too much lead flying around. Can't think of a plausible situation where that would be desirable.
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Old February 9, 2009, 12:31 PM   #16
bigghoss
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as a primary HD I'd stick to a 12gauge but under the right circumstances I would not be opposed to keeping an smg close at hand.
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Old February 9, 2009, 12:33 PM   #17
Firepower!
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So majority here thinks automatic is not preferred, however, i cant imagine not using MP5 SD.
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Old February 9, 2009, 12:43 PM   #18
Vanya
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Oh, yeah. I'd keep the first mag filled with blanks, and let off the whole thing at the first hint of an intruder -- I've heard that this works even better than racking a shotgun to scare the pants off a BG...

Seriously, no way. What Grymster said: "It would be real easy to get too much lead flying around." That, and hard to explain to the judge.

The shotgun seems perfectly adequate.
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Old February 9, 2009, 12:48 PM   #19
kraigwy
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Its been my experience in 40 years of firearms instruction, to the military, police and civilians. I've learned that most, including military and LEOs cant hit poop with a full auto.

I have demostrations of this several times. Example: I had 4 guns in a SF unit, fire 20 shots each at a E sil. target at 100 yards full auto. I fired 20 rounds at my target, same range, in a 1 min time period. I averages more hits then the 4 other shooters.

Another exampe: I was running a sniper school when an army MG crew wanted to use part of my range to qualify the MG Team. After words I let them pick any two of my students and their two best MGers. We fired fom 400 to 1100 meters, again in one minute, my sniper students registered more hits then the MGers.

This is just two examples. Autos have their place, its called fire superioity, needed on the battle field, but not needed in your bedroom against a home invader, or in your car during a car jacking.

You're openning youself up to all kind of problems because you have to account for all those rounds flying all over the place.
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Old February 9, 2009, 01:12 PM   #20
Milspec
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With the exception of close ambush an individual doesn't need full auto. After about three shots you're just hosing the trees...which is why we put the three round trigger group in the M16A2. For HD I'll stick with a shotgun, handgun, and AR-15 carbine...with lasers & lights of course...

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Old February 9, 2009, 01:43 PM   #21
freakshow10mm
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Full automatic fire is not meant for ranges beyond 50y. Trying to put someone in their place by having them run automatic at 100y and beyond doesn't impress me one bit.

Putting sharpshooters against machine gunners is like putting a Honda up against a Ferrari. They accomplish the same thing in very different ways; apples to oranges.
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Old February 9, 2009, 01:51 PM   #22
onthejon55
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I would if the laws and prices were prohibative.

A good 5 round burst from a subgun is scarier than the pump of a shotgun any day.
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Old February 9, 2009, 03:02 PM   #23
ronto
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9 pellets all at once out of a 12ga. pump should give the BG something to think about on his way to the deck.
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Old February 9, 2009, 03:32 PM   #24
Wyo Big Bore
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Quote:
FA is difficult to use and is really only good for fire suppression and area denial neither of which is suitable or appropriate for civilian SD.
Wellllllllllllllllllllll, it seems like "fire suppression and area denial" is exactly what I want. By the way, they work tremendously well for both of those.
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Old February 9, 2009, 03:47 PM   #25
freakintoguns
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in our current state of Living a Full auto would be useless for HD imo. first of all spray and pray could technically put 30 rounds into a BG, which most DAs and judges would look at as murder. now if we had a complete meltdown of government and became a true 3rd world country with roaming bands of Gangs Mad Max Style, i feel the only adequete SD gun would bea dillon Mini gun. but since thats not likely to happen anytime soon.....
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