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Old February 25, 2009, 03:48 PM   #76
armsmaster270
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Stopping power is all about hitting the mark. .22 to 45 if you hit the mark you have a one shot kill there is no wonder bullet there are good and not so good roumds you have to place them for them to work.
This is a one shot kill with a 38spl of a rapist under the influence of Toulene





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Old February 25, 2009, 10:25 PM   #77
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I carry .40 Federal HST in all my cc guns.
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Old February 26, 2009, 09:51 AM   #78
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Damnit, ammunitiontogo.com sent me Hydra Shoks instead of HST's. Ahh well I guess I will just use them as practice ammo.
I'd send them back if you ordered HST's and they sent HS's. Their customer service has been great the times I dealt with them.
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Old February 26, 2009, 09:54 AM   #79
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Stopping power is all about hitting the mark. .22 to 45 if you hit the mark you have a one shot kill there is no wonder bullet there are good and not so good roumds you have to place them for them to work.
Exactly.

Quote:
This is a one shot kill with a 38spl of a rapist under the influence of Toulene
Nice shot.
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Old October 27, 2009, 10:40 AM   #80
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all righty, im just getting into the gun collecting game( not really a game but u know im saying) my first weapon is a S&W m&p .40... ive been doing my lil research on ammo both target practice rounds and SD put em down rounds, ive looked at and ordered a single box of all rounds talked about in this thread to try out for myself. i have an aunt with a farm with a huge critter problem lol... so i figure plenty of testing opportunities.

and though im just getting my personall first gun(besides a bb gun here and there) ive been shooting for approximately 12 years, ive shot everything from .22 to the 12 gauge magnums. everything except the .50 cal i really want a desert eagle really bad hahahaa, but back to my point, i have really found a single piece of ammo that wouldn't make a dude wish he handnt been shot in the first place, ive seen and heard alot of people talk bad on the .40 s&w, makes me wanna have them experience one first hand lmao. but i love guns too much to risk it on a retard hahaaa. any who for my first post this thing is longer than hell... hahahaa
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Old October 19, 2010, 09:27 AM   #81
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My choice

This is a olllld thread but I recently purchased a Glock 23 as my new ccw. I picked up some magsafe ammo after a ton of recommendations from a ton of different police, fire, gun store employees etc.
1,940 fps and 601 ft-lbs in addition hollow point is filled with epoxy that will release shot shells, little bb's that will spread and penetrate. Supposedly a one shot stop, I imagine would do a ton of damage just looking at penetration in ballistic gel. If you go to court your carrying "magsafe ammo" because its safe as opposed to "extreme shock" explain that one in court
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Old October 19, 2010, 09:47 AM   #82
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Quite frankly in the .40sw it should be any round you can shoot accurately. Unlike the 9mm, the .40sw is designed as a defense round. It's basic form has mass, power, and a bullet designed for self defense and stopping. This is in contrast to the 9mm that, being a little smaller, you maybe want to choose a special round for self defense. I like the 124gr, JHP, +P. This packs really good punch and I like it because I get good capacity and it has good power. Yet this is below the standard .40s&w round. If you're carrying the .40, you're already set up for self defense IMO.
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Old October 19, 2010, 10:26 AM   #83
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Lets see....... the OP asked for opinions on which 40 cal ammo

Not what someone else THINKS about other calibers

Since there is a 9mm vs 40 cal vs 45 cal flame war every 15 minutes on this
board, why not jump on that bus.......................................................
.........IT WILL COME AROUND AGAIN I am sure.


Shooting a 226 in 40....... and loving it ..............Gold dots!

More than enough for me
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Old October 19, 2010, 11:41 AM   #84
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Seriously people ... any jack-o-bunny who claims that a .40 S&W is an inferior round is clearly a troll. Let him enjoy his manipulated facts and conspiracy theories.

Anyone who actually does research (and not rely on one bizarre occurance) simply knows that the 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP are all excellent SD rounds. They're good enough for the police, the military, and you too!

Speaking of bizarre occurances: A couple of years back I heard of a story of a driveby shooting. A woman was shot in the head by a .44 special round at a distance of 10 feet. For some strange reason, the bullet broke in two, and passed along her scalp in opposite directions and both fragments exited out behind her ears. Her skull wasn't even cracked, and she required no more than a couple of band aids.

Sometimes crazy things happen. You would truly be a fool (or a foolish troll) to base your entire opinion about the effectiveness of a particular round or caliber based on one "bizarre but true" story.
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Old October 21, 2010, 12:02 AM   #85
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It might not be scientific, but I'm looking at 3 recent events involving 9mm's.
1. Wash. 4 cops were ambushed in a diner. bad guy was hit multiple times, and escaped. Cops died. Bad guy lives?
2. Ft Hood. Nut-case kills 13 unarmed service men. Law-enforcement got there, suspect hit multiple times and lives?
3. DC museum. Nut-case kills guard with 22lr. Guards fire. Nut is hit multiple times, and lives?

I'm sorry for going on but something is obviously wrong with the choice of sidearm/caliber that law enforcement/DOD has chosen. What these three(and many more)have in common, is poor performance of the chosen round. Somewhat like the 223 in which the assaliant MUST be hit multiple times to stop him/her. Alot of times these messes are mistaken for exocutions. This shouldn't happen. Why should it take half or all of a high-cap mag to stop an assailant(giving him time to return fire)? Am I the only one seeing this? Something is really wrong!!!!!!
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Old October 21, 2010, 11:17 AM   #86
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Milton, man oh man your really gaining zero respect!

If the .40 S&W were some mystery oddity of a round that you seem to think it is then the energy that it produces (With the same projectiles 10mm's shoot) would somehow magically vanish!

The truth is they produce good energy and kill things if the shot is placed well just like the 10mm, .45 ACP, 9mm and any other caliber will. If that energy hits vital areas of the body we go bye bye! if that energy hits non-vital areas we might be able to (If dumb enough) try and drive ourselves to the hospital!

.40 S&W 200 gr (13 g) Double Tap Hornady XTP JHP 1,050 ft/s 490 ft·lbf.

9mm 8.00 g (123.5 gr) FMJ 360 m/s (1,200 ft/s) (382 ft·lbf)

.45 ACP 165 gr (10.7 g) Federal Premium Low Recoil JHP 1,060 ft/s 412 ft·lbf.
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Old October 22, 2010, 01:12 AM   #87
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Stops happen, with any caliber, due to one of two things...

... shutdown of the central nervous system, or severe drop in blood pressure.

So, if a BG isn't hit in brain or spine (CNS), or heart or aorta (massive, instantaneous blood loss), then an instant stop won't happen.

Even with some brain hits, or heart/aorta hits, it can take seconds or longer before the body stops functioning.

Given hits to non-vital locations, a bullet that makes larger holes will cause faster exsanguination than a bullet that makes a smaller hole, but it will still take time.

Multiple hits to non-vital locations will cause an even faster bleedout, but they will still take time.

The only sure stops are hit locations that will work with any reasonable caliber. For reliability, the caliber and bullet type should be capable of penetrating deep enough to get to those hit locations through normal obstructions - such as first passing through an upper arm before entering the thorax - which is why 12" penetration is usually recommended.

Good .40 loads will penetrate 12", and make a reasonable hole. The trick is putting the hole in the right spot.
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Old October 24, 2010, 12:03 PM   #88
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There is a very compelling argument to use the heaviest round that your pistol will reliably cycle with. This link supplies the argument.

http://concealedcarryforum.com/forum...TOPIC_ID=11911

In short simple energy numbers from light and fast rounds do not equal the best penetration potential in gel. The larger mass rounds carry more inertia and travel further in gel.
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Old October 27, 2010, 02:24 PM   #89
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Wow I forgot that I had even started this thread last year...FWIW, I still have my M&P 40 and love it. For SD rounds I have 180 grain Speer Gold Dot Hollow Points!

Best of Luck, and hope this thread has been useful .
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Old October 27, 2010, 02:34 PM   #90
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See what you started?

FWIW, I like 165gr JHP's in the .40. They seem to be more accurate for me.

I'm still looking for the round that will turn a BG into a huge pink cloud with just a grazing pinky shot and yet not harm an innocent person hit COM at 5ft. Until that round turns up, I'll just keep shooting a round that is accurate for me and has decent terminal statistics.
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Old October 29, 2010, 01:17 AM   #91
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Mark Milton wrote: "It doesn't matter because the .40 Short and Wimpy has no stopping power..."

Is that why the California Hiway Patrol uses them and seems to love'm? Maybe the CHP is made up of a group of doofuses who wouldn't know penetration if they saw it?
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Old October 30, 2010, 03:48 PM   #92
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I carry a Glock 27 and started out carrying 40s&w jhp ammo. I have since bought a Storm Lake 357sig conversion barrel loaded with hornady xtp jhp ammo. I like the penetration & expansion that the added speed of the bullet gives me. For home defense I use a Glock 21 45acp loaded with Hornady critical defense which is heavier & slower. I feel just as safe with either of them.
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Old October 30, 2010, 04:40 PM   #93
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I'm using "Golen Sabres" in my GLOCK Mod. 23...
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Old October 30, 2010, 10:00 PM   #94
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You could do much worse than 180 grain Federal Premium HST and/or Gold Dots.
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Old October 30, 2010, 10:21 PM   #95
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You can't fix stupid, and Mark proves it!!!
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Old October 31, 2010, 10:36 AM   #96
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I picked up some magsafe ammo after a ton of recommendations from a ton of different police, fire, gun store employees etc.

1,940 fps and 601 ft-lbs in addition hollow point is filled with epoxy that will release shot shells, little bb's that will spread and penetrate. Supposedly a one shot stop, I imagine would do a ton of damage just looking at penetration in ballistic gel.
CONCLUSIONS FROM FBI STUDY ON HANDGUN WOUNDING FACTORS.

Physiologically, no caliber or bullet is certain to incapacitate any individual unless the brain is hit. Psychologically, some individuals can be incapacitated by minor or small caliber wounds. Those individuals who are stimulated by fear, adrenaline, drugs, alcohol, and/or sheer will and survival determination may not be incapacitated even if mortally wounded.

The will to survive and to fight despite horrific damage to the body is commonplace on the battlefield, and on the street. Barring a hit to the brain, the only way to force incapacitation is to cause sufficient blood loss that the subject can no longer function, and that takes time. Even if the heart is instantly destroyed, there is sufficient oxygen in the brain to support full and complete voluntary action for 10-15 seconds.

Kinetic energy does not wound. Temporary cavity does not wound. The much discussed "shock" of bullet impact is a fable and "knock down" power is a myth. The critical element is penetration. The bullet must pass through the large, blood bearing organs and be of sufficient diameter to promote rapid bleeding. Penetration less than 12 inches is too little, and, in the words of two of the participants in the 1987 Wound Ballistics Workshop, "too little penetration will get you killed." 42,43 Given desirable and reliable penetration, the only way to increase bullet effectiveness is to increase the severity of the wound by increasing the size of hole made by the bullet. Any bullet which will not penetrate through vital organs from less than optimal angles is not acceptable. Of those that will penetrate, the edge is always with the bigger bullet.


The study is also not a fan of pre-fragmented ammunition like Glaser and MagSafe. I know Glaser sucks, but it appears MagSafe uses larger fragments, and may be a better product. That said, I'm sticking with solid bullets, and generally with the heaviest weight bullet.

My suggestions for .40 caliber self-defense ammo would be 180 grain offerings in Federal HST, Corbon DPX, and Speer Gold Dot.
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Old November 1, 2010, 04:00 AM   #97
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Trade it off on a .45 or a 9 or 10 mm....
Lots more stories of multiple hits by 9mm that didn't get the job done.

I know of an incident where a criminal attacked a man's wife and nearly killed her before her husband arrived on the scene. After taking 5 .45 ACP to the thorax, the attacker walked into a hospital and survived his wounds.

Now who'd want to trust their life to the impotent .45 ACP?

Heard of many LE agencies that speak highly of the 40 S&W. Can't recall, off hand, any that have condemned the caliber---not sure about ammo selection.
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Old November 4, 2010, 10:52 AM   #98
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For 40 S&W, suggest you consider Federal HST 180-gr. (P40HST1) or Winchester Ranger T (RA40T). 180-gr. Gold Dots are OK too. Stay with the heavier loads with good penetration and expansion for best overall terminal performance.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=428662
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Old November 12, 2010, 06:19 PM   #99
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I love my .40 Sigma & would hate to be hit with it or any gun as far as that goes.
Man, fella , you guys sent Mark racing back to the troll bridge.
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Old November 12, 2010, 07:57 PM   #100
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In general, stick with heavy for caliber loads from the following manufactures and if you prefer a middleweight bullet, upgrade to a bonded version of that load to ensure adequate penetration:

* Winchester Ranger T or Remington Golden Saber
40 S&W = 180-gr. (Both Regular or Bonded) and 165-gr. Bonded Only

* Federal HST
40 S&W = 180-gr. Standard Pressure and +P

* Barnes:
40 S&W = XPB 155-gr. +P Copper Jacketed Hollowpoint


* Speer Gold Dot (Bonded): Also loaded by Double Tap, & Buffalo Bore
40 S&W = 165-gr. +P and 180-gr. +P
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