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Old February 14, 2009, 08:10 PM   #26
sadsack
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Dburk: Fluting is a personal choice type thing, and some like it for the cool ()factor. It does cut some weight and it does cool down slightly faster, but not enough to really make a difference. A sporter weight barrel can't be fluted very deep before you have safety issues.
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Old February 14, 2009, 08:28 PM   #27
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The barrel he's talking about can be fluted pretty deep but it's purely cosmetic. Does look good tho. This is about the same dimensions as the one he's talking about. Stainless Steel with an eight groove flute.


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Old February 14, 2009, 08:55 PM   #28
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Okay, not worth $100 (straight) or $150 (helical).
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Old February 14, 2009, 09:19 PM   #29
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Hawg: Your right about the barrel, I didn't catch that in D's last post. I was still thinking about the #3 sporter weight that he mentioned earlier.


Dburk: Keep us posted as to how its turning out. (maybe some pictures?)
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Old February 14, 2009, 09:41 PM   #30
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Re: Pictures.

Will work on it.
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Old February 19, 2009, 09:54 PM   #31
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Feeding problem

I got some snap caps/dummy rounds in .308 Winchester to try in the action of the Project Mauser. I have encountered a problem with one particular round (as defined by its position in the magazine) feeding poorly.

When I load 5 rounds into the magazine, the 2nd round (first one on the left) hangs up on the side of the feed ramp:



I can "force" it by shoving the bolt handle hard. All the other rounds, including the 4th round (other one on the left) feed fine.

Suggestions? I can take and provide more pics if that would help.
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Old February 19, 2009, 10:49 PM   #32
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Dburk: It looks like you need to open the feed rail on the left side a little. Look at where the left side is pushing the cartridge to the right and hitting the area that your showing. The spring pressure is lighter on the next round on the left and allows that cartridge base to move slightly to the right. That allows it to feed easier. It won't take much off the rail to give the clearence you need. Go slow and polish it all up when your done.
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Old February 25, 2009, 01:42 PM   #33
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Minor update:

Got the replacement bolt stop assembly (bolt stop, spring, ejector, and screw) today. I'll install it when I get home this evening.

I'll try that with the feed rail. However, it is only with great trepidation that I remove metal from the receiver. It's a lot easier to take off than to put back.
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Old February 27, 2009, 12:00 PM   #34
Harry Bonar
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Turkish Mauser

Sir;
Do not, do not, try to "straighten" that reciever - get another Turk Mauser - they are fine rifles to convert. The former advice is fine about removing the barrel, particularly by Nick.
No, no Turk action has 11 1/2 threads! They are 12 pitch. Brownells promulgated that idea until I straightened them out and they admitted they were in error but wouldn't admit it on the web!
The barrels, (VERY FEW) had a machining error and some (few) were 11 1/2 pitch but the action has always been .980X12! This is done by the machinest having his quick change box one hole off!
I've built 416 Taylors and 9.3s on that action and have always found them good!
You need a good barrel vise and a good action wrench and then that is easy (I've found some on the Turk 38 you could unscrew by hand ) - others come loose like a 22 short being fired!
Turn off the dust cover flange (not threaded and its not a (recessed barrel seat as one expert has claimed) and your action will be VZ24 length.
Check the lug seats for set-back and general condition - I've not found a Turk 38 to be soft inside where it is carburized.
Let me repeat, don't straighten that action!
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Old February 27, 2009, 12:22 PM   #35
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???

Where did I say anything about straightening the action? What I found, after finally getting the barrel off, was that the action (based on the flatness of the bottom) was still straight.

Incidentally, even with the action wrench and barrel vise I still could not get the barrel off. What I ended up doing was using the bench vise to hold the action wrench, using a pipe wrench on the barrel, and using a very long "cheater bar" on the pip wrench. Once I broke the initial bit free, it turned nicely and I could unscrew it by hand.

After that I checked that the bottom was straight against an optical bench we have here in the lab. Then when I got home, I trial fitted the trigger guard/magazine and that still fit nicely too. It does look like the action is still straight.
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Old February 27, 2009, 12:37 PM   #36
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Quote:
When I load 5 rounds into the magazine, the 2nd round (first one on the left) hangs up on the side of the feed ramp:
You are assuming that Mauser actions feed like push-feed rifles, which they do not. As the round starts to move forward, the cartridge pops out from under the feed rails in a straight line and rim slips under the claw extractor. The "ramp" is not a feed ramp per se. it is intended to allow forward movement of the cartridge on top of the box magazine while holding the rounds below it in place. Many feeding problems in Mausers are associated with cartridges that do not have enough body taper or feed rails that are the wrong shape.
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Old February 27, 2009, 12:45 PM   #37
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In front of the magazine opening, at the bottom of the ring, there is a broad "channel" that slants up toward the barrel. That is what I meant by "feed ramp." The front of the round is coming across and hitting the side of that channel (as shown in the picture) while the rear end is still held between the left-hand rail and the 3rd round.
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Old February 27, 2009, 03:12 PM   #38
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One thing that has just come up,and is worthy to consider..
In a controlled round feed rifle,the extractor and boltface are a part of the feeding cycle.One place to study,especially in the event of a feed problem only one one side,is the case head rising up the bolt face,under the extractor.

In some cases,the mag follower becomes an issue if the case design changes from original.

If any stockwork has been done,be sure the mag box is up to the rails and centered.

Remember the principal,it is the design intent of the magazine that both at the shoulder and case head,the rounds should be in contact with each other in a tight equilqteral triangle.Tight at the shoulders and loose at the case heads will cause problems.

You ar correct that you cannot put the steel back in the rails.Don't hack and hope.Use marker or careful obsevation to find only the right steel to take off.
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Old March 2, 2009, 02:11 PM   #39
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Took the action to a friend of mine's (one who owns many Mausers) to see if we could identify the problem. He pulled out several different Mausers including an Israeli Mauser in 7.62, a Czech and (IIRC) one more 8 mm. He also pulled out some 8 mm dummy rounds (made from actual 8 mm Mauser rounds with dead primers and the cases drilled crosswise).

First, the 8 mm fed fine in my action, which is good. If it hadn't, that might have meant that the receiver was damaged, possibly beyond repair.

We then tried the .308 dummy rounds that I had. Slowly feeding them one at a time (and forcing past the "sticking" point, on the 2nd round, we saw that rounds 1, 2, 3, and 5 would "push feed." #4 popped up out of the magwell almost immediately after the bolt started coming forward and did a controlled feed. Now, HiBC said above and I have read elsewhere that Mausers don't "push feed" but are rather "controlled feed" rifles, however, I have to wonder. We tried the dummy rounds in the Israeli and Czech rifles and in both they push fed. We also tried the 8 mm dummies in my action and in another 8 mm and again the push feed. So, I dunno. I know what I've read. I also know what I've now seen in several different Mausers.

At the very front of the right rail there was a lump of metal (see picture). It was out of the way when the longer 8 mm cartridges were fed forward, but the shorter .308 came across at a sharper angle and the shoulder of the round would hit this lump and stick. The #4 round, however, would pop up out of the magwell and come in straight so it never encountered it. None of the other Mausers had a similar lump in that position so I suspect it was just the result of some sloppiness in the manufacture of the receiver.

A few minutes with a file planed down the lump. Now both 8 mm and .308 feeds nicely.

One thing we noticed in looking over the other Mausers was that the Israeli Mauser had a small block at the front of the magazine filling most of the space in front of the follower. The followers in both the Israeli and in my action were the same length (checked with both removed from their respective guns). I could probably fabricate such a block and either press fit or solder it in, but is something like that available commercially?

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Old March 2, 2009, 02:32 PM   #40
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On CRF vs Pushfeed in a Mauser

I suspect it is a question of understanding the terminology.

If,as the bolt catches the case at the beginning of the bolt stroke forward,the case head rises up under the extractor as the bolt moves forward
and the extractor is in front of the rim as this happens,it is controlled round feed.You can turn the rifle sideways,bolt handle down,and feed a round without it falling out of position if the extractor is proper.

I can't picture a Mauser with a claw extractor functioning as a push feed from the magazine.

Sometimes extractors are modified to allow dropping one round in and springing the extractor over the rim,but there are compromises when this is done and I do not recommend it
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Old March 2, 2009, 03:15 PM   #41
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Okay, that makes sense. Then it's not a "push feed"/"controlled feed" issue so much as a case of on my action, on all rounds except the 4th (2nd on the left) the round is fairly far forward in the chamber before the rear pops free of the rails and up onto the bolt face. On the others, all of them waited until fairly far forward before springing free of the rails. The 4th round in mine, came up from the rails fairly early, however (I have no idea why) and was held by the extractor and the "lip" on the other side of the bolt and so went straight forward rather than angling across like the other rounds do, which is why that round didn't "stick" like the second round did. (And there was no lump of metal on the left side so the odd numbered rounds didn't have anything to hang on.)

In any case, it's working now.

Next step is a barrel.
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Old March 3, 2009, 03:18 AM   #42
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Dburk: Glad you found the problem and got it to feeding right. The Mauser does sort of push feed the cartridge for about half of the rails. Then the cartridge comes up under the extractor and into the bolt face. The cartridge is contained by the action/bolt through the entire cycle, and thats where the term controlled feed comes in.
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Old March 3, 2009, 09:38 AM   #43
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Yeah. I was misunderstanding what "push feed" vs. controlled feed meant.

Learn something new every day.
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Old March 3, 2009, 03:41 PM   #44
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I think we agree on the obvious,it does not make practical economic sense these days to build one on a milsurp.
But by the time you are finished,you will have education and experience that cannot be gained by just buying,selling,rubbing and holding.

Good for you
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Old March 7, 2009, 04:45 PM   #45
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In terms of total dollars (particularly when one counts the cost of tools I'm buying) for the final quality, probably not. But, as you said, it's an education. And the tools will continue to be there after I'm done and available for future projects (or to help friends with their projects).

Right now I've got about $300 sunk into this project. The barrel will be another $175 or so and if I can't find someone locally who'll either be willing to load me a finish reamer or let me borrow one, I'll have to use a rental (another $40-50) such as from www.rentalreamers.com. Then there's the stock. What I'm looking at is probably another $160. At least I do know someone locally that can help with final fitting and finishing the stock. That's $685 for the base rifle, never mind any optics, improved triggers (call that $95 based on what I see on Brownells), or a bent-handle bolt (looks like $95 or so there based on e-gunparts).

Add it all up and we're talking on the order of $1200.
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Old March 7, 2009, 11:56 PM   #46
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Dburk: Pride and joy......."priceless".
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Old April 1, 2009, 09:24 PM   #47
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Don't want to let this go too long without an update.

Work is continuing. I'll try to get some pics up soon.

Working with a friend, I've ground off the stripper clip bump, sanded, and polished the bridge sot that it looks nice.

I've continued that, sanding the rest of the receiver to "pretty it up" in preperation for refinishing to come later.

Incidentally, there were some burrs on the underside of the receiver, where the trigger guard/magazine housing fits that caused a gap on one side when the magazine housing was secured to the receiver. Removing those burrs (without cutting into the metal underneath) fixed that. The magazine housing now fits tight without any visible gap. Rounds still feed nicely so this change didn't muck up anything else.

I had looked into buying a replacement bolt body with a bent bolt handle for a low scope mount. Hoosier Gun Works had a couple listed on their web site, but when I called them, they were gone. Oh well. Next option was to have the handle cut off the current bolt body and a new one welded on. One option was simply to have the original handle cut then welded at the new angle. However, I found this online and decided I liked it better than the original. I'm hoping the knurled handle will give me a more positive grip over the smooth original if I'm wearing heavy gloves in cold weather. I've ordered the handle and will be jobbing out the work (friend of a friend networking) once the handle arrives.

The next task after that is having the receiver drilled and tapped for a scope mount. I'm really not keen on spending the money for a jig to do it (right) myself, so that, too will be jobbed out (same friend of a friend networking).

A question on scope mounts. I've seen some claiming to be for "Mauser FN" and at least one for a Mauser 98 that says "does not fit Turkish Mausers." The receiver is a Turkish Large Ring Small Shank Mauser. Why would a Mauser 98 scope not fit that? Likewise, would these "Mauser FN" mounts fit or not? For various reasons I'd prefer to use a one piece mount rather than a two piece. What, exactly, do I have to look for?

Once that's done, I think' I'll be ready to install the barrel and either get it finish reamed and headspaced (provided I can find someone who can do that reasonably local to me) or rent reamers from here. The question there is: do I want the floating or the solid pilot reamer? Also, do I need a separate throating reamer? If so, I need to consider the cost of that in determining what is "reasonable" in terms of having it done.

Oh, and I'll also need to get a side-swing or other low profile safety since a scope would get in the way of the original Mauser safety.

At that point, I believe I'll have a shootable rifle. I can put it back in the original stock (with suitable modification of the barrel channel) which has already been chopped in the original "sporterizing" of the rifle so further modification doesn't bother me from a "historical" perspective. I'll want to get a better stock and a better trigger, but I can do that in stages while having something to shoot.
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Old April 2, 2009, 03:05 AM   #48
sadsack
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Dburke: Nice looking handle. The FN one piece bases will work, though most of them will have a notch to clear the stripper clip hump. I would suggest two piece bases unless as you said you just want a one piece base. I like the Weaver style bases and Leupold rings, and use them on most of my rifles.
Brownells has several makes of safety's for the mausers.
A solid pilot reamer is fine, and unless your planing to shoot extra long bullets you don't need a throating reamer.

Looking forward to your pictures. (I'm taking pictures of mine if I can figure out how to post them.)
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Old April 22, 2009, 09:57 PM   #49
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As promised, pictures.

First, there's the receiver after the recent round of work. The stripper clip "hump" has been ground off, smoothed with a file and sandpaper, and then the bridge was buffed. In addition, I've gone over the exterior of the receiver with emery paper, starting with 220 and ending with 400:





Next, the new bolt handle has been welded on. I had that done and some grinding of the high spots on the weld beads was done before it came back to me, but I did the rest of the finish work with files and sandpaper (generally wrapped around a file). It's a bit rough, particularly on the inside of the bend, but adequate I think.





Finally, the new safety for use with the scope has come in. I kind of went "low road" here with a two position safety, but for which I have a third "disassembly position if I remove the scope first (which is easy now since I don't have a scope on it yet).



Some work was needed on the safety to get it to work with this bolt. Specifically, it needed some beveling at the corners so that it would fit in ahead of the cocking piece. I don't know if the safety was intended to be beveled to allow it to be moved to the third, "disassembly" position (the instructions provided with the safety were kind of minimal), but there was a "divot" in the safety at that point for the cocking piece to fit into and it was relatively easy to bevel the edge leading up to that so that the safety could be switched to that position:



The disassembly position would probably not be reachable with a low scope in place, but is really only needed when I want to disassemble the bolt.

Next step is to lap the bolt and receiver lugs.
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