The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 29, 2009, 03:49 PM   #1
18DAI
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 30, 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 2,114
Where is the NRA on Eric Holder?

Hello NRA!!?? Are you home?

How about standing up for us and screaming a little about Eric Holder!!
__________________
S&W Model 19 Combat Magnum. Everything you need in a revolver, and nothing you don't.
18DAI is offline  
Old January 29, 2009, 04:14 PM   #2
Al Norris
Staff
 
Join Date: June 29, 2000
Location: Rupert, Idaho
Posts: 9,316
Why should the NRA use any political capital over an issue that will not be affected?

Barring the revelation of some (really bad) criminal activity, Eric Holder is going to be confirmed, regardless of what any lobby may say or do.
__________________
National listings of the Current 2A Cases.
Al Norris is offline  
Old January 29, 2009, 04:43 PM   #3
dburkhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 10, 2008
Posts: 116
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Fe...d.aspx?id=4307

While one might argue that they haven't done much, frankly, I have to agree with Antipitas. Why waste political capital on a battle that's not going to be won no matter what they do?
__________________
The award winning fantasy series "Heroes in Hell" returns this July with the new collection "Lawyers in Hell."
http://heroesinhell.wordpress.com/
Including a new story by David L. Burkhead
dburkhead is offline  
Old January 29, 2009, 04:44 PM   #4
azredhawk44
Junior member
 
Join Date: September 28, 2005
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 6,465
He (Eric Holder) is on the front cover of First Freedom Magazine...

Granted, that's preaching to the choir; but I am sure they're whispering here and there on Capitol Hill.
azredhawk44 is offline  
Old January 29, 2009, 04:53 PM   #5
18DAI
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 30, 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 2,114
While I agree that any NRA actions would probably be futile, what will simply conceeding gain us?

Do we now sit by quietly and say nothing? Do nothing at all? What happened to the "educating" byline of the NRA?

I don't advocate that tact with these people. Holder is a first degree anti. For crying out loud, he helped pardon two Puerto Rican terrorists. This is going to be the nations chief law enforcement officer?

Maybe I'm simply old and grumpy. Regards 18DAI.
__________________
S&W Model 19 Combat Magnum. Everything you need in a revolver, and nothing you don't.
18DAI is offline  
Old January 29, 2009, 05:11 PM   #6
dburkhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 10, 2008
Posts: 116
They didn't "simply concede" nor does "sit by and do nothing" match what was done.

Letters were written. Displeasure was expressed. The information about this was put out (although perhaps it could have been emphasized more).

However, it wasn't worth putting a lot of time and effort into something that wasn't, and isn't, going to be changed.

I've expressed my displeasure to both my Senators. Frankly, I probably could have saved the postage.
__________________
The award winning fantasy series "Heroes in Hell" returns this July with the new collection "Lawyers in Hell."
http://heroesinhell.wordpress.com/
Including a new story by David L. Burkhead
dburkhead is offline  
Old January 30, 2009, 12:35 AM   #7
alan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 7, 1999
Posts: 3,745
Al Norris writes on Holder, probably correctly, sad to note:

Barring the revelation of some (really bad) criminal activity, Eric Holder is going to be confirmed, regardless of what any lobby may say or do.

So much for the antics/activities of One Of The Worlds Great Deliberative Bodies, The U.S. Senate, and it's membership.

One wonders as to the following however. How many gun owners, across the nation, have contacted their U.S. Senators to voice opposition to the confirmation of Mr. Holder?

Last edited by alan; January 30, 2009 at 12:37 AM. Reason: add a thought
alan is offline  
Old January 30, 2009, 12:47 AM   #8
Al Norris
Staff
 
Join Date: June 29, 2000
Location: Rupert, Idaho
Posts: 9,316
Folks, all I'm really trying to say, is that you must really pick your battles.

This particular battle can't be won. Better to save the ammo for those that can be won. Remember, Holder himself says that gun-control, in light of Heller will be a lot tougher.

Should we get a couple of Circuit courts going to incorporation, and the Supremes agree with it (a doable thing in the next 2-3 years), it will be tougher yet.
__________________
National listings of the Current 2A Cases.
Al Norris is offline  
Old January 30, 2009, 02:27 AM   #9
nemoaz
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2007
Location: Meechigan
Posts: 492
Quote:
Why should the NRA use any political capital over an issue that will not be affected?
+1. The battle was lost. Whomever Obama picks will follows Obama's antigun orders no matter what the AG's personal opinions are. The WH was lost. The battle will be fought in Congress.
nemoaz is offline  
Old January 30, 2009, 09:32 AM   #10
Bartholomew Roberts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 5,675
Quote:
Hello NRA!!?? Are you home?

How about standing up for us and screaming a little about Eric Holder!!
The NRA sent a letter to the new President saying it had serious concerns about Holder. It notified members of Holder's anti-gun tendencies immediately and encouraged members to contact their Congressional representatives. It sent Dr. Halbrook to Congress in order to testify against Holder's nomination.

Exactly what more do you want them to do?

Frankly, the whole battle is pretty futile since Holder is likely to be nominated regardless given the number of votes the Democrats have in the Senate (59). The time to stop Holder was by not electing the man who nominated him - a goal that the NRA spent over $1 million a day on during the last election.
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old February 5, 2009, 08:06 AM   #11
thallub
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Location: South Western OK
Posts: 2,089
Holder was confirmed by a vote of 75-21. Note that some senators who claim to support the 2nd Amendment voted to confirm Holder.

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/...s=1111&tally=1
thallub is offline  
Old February 5, 2009, 08:33 AM   #12
ZeSpectre
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 4, 2007
Location: Shenandoah Valley
Posts: 3,276
Quote:
Why should the NRA use any political capital over an issue that will not be affected?
Antipitas,
While I understand completely what you are saying, if the NRA doesn't start making some visible waves soon it's going to loose a LOT more of it's "political capitol" as it sheds members who are feeling like they don't do anything.

Now you and I both know that there is a tremendous amount of "back room" politics happening that is never seen by the general public but we're in an era of "bread and circuses" and if the NRA doesn't do some seriously public circuses soon they're going to have some real trouble ahead.
ZeSpectre is offline  
Old February 5, 2009, 08:42 AM   #13
Sarge
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 12, 2002
Location: MO
Posts: 4,911
A better question might be "Where were American gun owners while two branches of government (The two branches of government, I might add, which appoint and confirm the third!) got handed over to people who have demonstrated, time and time again, their extreme antigun sentiments?"

The NRA can bark at congress until they're blue in the face, but they can't 'bite' as long as gun owners elect those who hold the Bill of Rights in the same regard as toilet paper.

This problem was caused by gun owners; only gun owners can fix it.
__________________
I'm inclined to think if a man hasn't gotten his point across in 4912 attempts, 4913 probably isn't going to do it.
Sarge is offline  
Old February 5, 2009, 08:09 PM   #14
alan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 7, 1999
Posts: 3,745
Notwithstanding the correct comment, unfortunately so, by Antipitas, I wonder re the following.

1. How many gun owners got on to their U.S. Senators to voice their disapproval of Holder's confirmation, assuming of course that they disapproved.
2. How many gun owners, here or elsewhere will trouble to remember of took up, when next there are elections for seats in the U.S. senate, who voted how.

Additionally, the following strike me as interesting points raised by a coup-le of commentators here.

thallub wrote:

Holder was confirmed by a vote of 75-21. Note that some senators who claim to support the 2nd Amendment voted to confirm Holder.

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/...s=1111&tally=1

ZeSpectre quoted and wrote:
Why should the NRA use any political capital over an issue that will not be affected?

Antipitas,
While I understand completely what you are saying, if the NRA doesn't start making some visible waves soon it's going to loose a LOT more of it's "political capitol" as it sheds members who are feeling like they don't do anything.

Now you and I both know that there is a tremendous amount of "back room" politics happening that is never seen by the general public but we're in an era of "bread and circuses" and if the NRA doesn't do some seriously public circuses soon they're going to have some real trouble ahead.

Sarge wrote:

A better question might be "Where were American gun owners while two branches of government (The two branches of government, I might add, which appoint and confirm the third!) got handed over to people who have demonstrated, time and time again, their extreme antigun sentiments?"

The NRA can bark at congress until they're blue in the face, but they can't 'bite' as long as gun owners elect those who hold the Bill of Rights in the same regard as toilet paper.

This problem was caused by gun owners; only gun owners can fix it.

-------------------------

Seems to me that some interesting points are offered, as is the case with questions asked.
alan is offline  
Old February 5, 2009, 09:36 PM   #15
Any .45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 21, 2004
Location: SW FLORIDA, USA
Posts: 599
Alan, I most definetly agree with you. I have alot of friends of mine that are minorities both black and hispanic that are almost as big firearm enthusiasts as me and voted for him because he was a minority, they had no idea of his or Biden anti gun policies or any of there policies period and I feel that the fact that he is a minority is what got him elected. Because now those friends of mine are panicing buy everything they can cursing themselves. I believe he is a very intelligent individual, and capable of doing good things, but not of running this country. Well not the way our fore fathers intended it to be ran. With our gov't protecting our rights and the first and second amendments being the core of this country. Because honestly, I have been to and have lived in countries that neither one are allowed by those gov'ts and thats what makes this country great. But i know I'm preaching to the choir, just wanted to throw my rants and raves in there, I've had a really bad day, because of our new presdent, I can't find ammo, I can't find Anything at a normal price, because people are so worried about what he's going to try and take from us, they are buying up everything, not that I blame them, just him.
__________________
Foster and polish
The warior spirit
While serving in the world;
Illuminate the path
According to your inner light"

"Spring forth from the Great Earth;
Billow like Great Waves;
Stand like a tree, sit like a rock;
Use One to strike All.
Learn and forget! "

"At the instant
A warrior
Confronts a foe,
All things
Come into focus"

Morihei Ueshiba (1883-1969)
Founder of Aikido
Any .45 is offline  
Old February 5, 2009, 11:29 PM   #16
Al Norris
Staff
 
Join Date: June 29, 2000
Location: Rupert, Idaho
Posts: 9,316
Just so everyone can see what their Senator did:

Yea : 75 Members
Lisa Murkowski (R-AK)
Jeff Sessions (R-AL)
Blanche Lincoln (D-AR)
Mark Pryor (D-AR)
Jon Kyl (R-AZ)
John McCain (R-AZ) <-- Anybody surprised on this one?
Barbara Boxer (D-CA)
Dianne Feinstein (D-CA)
Michael Bennet (D-CO)
Mark Udall (D-CO)
Christopher Dodd (D-CT)
Joseph Lieberman (I-CT)
Thomas Carper (D-DE)
Ted Kaufman (D-DE)
Bill Nelson (D-FL)
Saxby Chambliss (R-GA)
Johnny Isakson (R-GA)
Daniel Akaka (D-HI)
Daniel Inouye (D-HI)
Charles Grassley (R-IA)
Tom Harkin (D-IA)
Roland Burris (D-IL)
Richard Durbin (D-IL)
Evan Bayh (D-IN)
Richard Lugar (R-IN)
Mary Landrieu (D-LA)
John Kerry (D-MA)
Benjamin Cardin (D-MD)
Barbara Mikulski (D-MD)
Susan Collins (R-ME)
Olympia Snowe (R-ME)
Carl Levin (D-MI)
Debbie Stabenow (D-MI)
Amy Klobuchar (D-MN)
Christopher Bond (R-MO)
Claire McCaskill (D-MO)
Max Baucus (D-MT)
Jon Tester (D-MT)
Kay Hagan (D-NC)
Kent Conrad (D-ND)
Byron Dorgan (D-ND)
Ben Nelson (D-NE)
Judd Gregg (R-NH)
Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH)
Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Robert Menendez (D-NJ)
Jeff Bingaman (D-NM)
Tom Udall (D-NM)
Harry Reid (D-NV)
Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY)
Charles Schumer (D-NY)
Sherrod Brown (D-OH)
George Voinovich (R-OH)
Jeff Merkley (D-OR)
Ron Wyden (D-OR)
Robert Casey (D-PA)
Arlen Specter (R-PA)
Jack Reed (D-RI)
Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI)
Lindsey Graham (R-SC)
Tim Johnson (D-SD)
Lamar Alexander (R-TN)
Bob Corker (R-TN)
Robert Bennett (R-UT) <--Utahns should
Orrin Hatch (R-UT) <--------be ashamed
Mark Warner (D-VA)
Jim Webb (D-VA)
Patrick Leahy (D-VT)
Bernard Sanders (I-VT)
Maria Cantwell (D-WA)
Patty Murray (D-WA)
Russ Feingold (D-WI)
Herb Kohl (D-WI)
Robert Byrd (D-WV)
John Rockefeller (D-WV)

Nay : 21 Members
Richard Shelby (R-AL)
Mike Crapo (R-ID)
Jim Risch (R-ID)
Sam Brownback (R-KS)
Pat Roberts (R-KS)
Jim Bunning (R-KY)
Mitch McConnell (R-KY)
David Vitter (R-LA)
Thad Cochran (R-MS)
Roger Wicker (R-MS)
Richard Burr (R-NC)
Mike Johanns (R-NE)
John Ensign (R-NV)
Tom Coburn (R-OK)
James Inhofe (R-OK)
Jim DeMint (R-SC)
John Thune (R-SD)
John Cornyn (R-TX)
Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-TX)
John Barrasso (R-WY)
Michael Enzi (R-WY)

Not Voting : 3 Members
Mark Begich (D-AK)
Mel Martinez (R-FL)
Edward Kennedy (D-MA)

You will please note that almost as many Republicans voted for Holder as those who voted against.
__________________
National listings of the Current 2A Cases.
Al Norris is offline  
Old February 6, 2009, 11:04 PM   #17
alan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 7, 1999
Posts: 3,745
Antipitas:

I may be a dumb bunny, but Arlen Specter's vote for confirmation was, like many of his actions, something of a disappointment. The names of others, Specter aside were disappointing too.

Any .45:

Why the Republicans ever thought of running McCain/Palen, let alone actually doing it is something I cannot understand. Possibly I'm just thick headed.

Having said that, and with reference to the people you mentioned, they haven't the least excuse, as the records of both Obama and Biden were long standing and quite well publicized. They spent their electoral pennies as they chose. I hope they sleep well with the chains their votes may well have helped to install. By the way, re chains installed, history clearly shows that such chains bear most heavily on MINORITIES, as I recall.
alan is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10477 seconds with 7 queries